Beginners stumbles

[kphipps06]

so ive got 2 batches under my belt. a kit thats based on a san diego IPA and a recipe from a book based on a chico west coast pale ale. the chico was my latest batch. i am still an extract brewer
Questions: the recipe called for a hop addition at the 0 min mark. i completely forgot and added them in while the pot was in the ice bath. will this make the batch a mess?
also, i would like to start tweaking recipes myself to start getting a grasp on things. but what is the typical primary fermentation for an Ipa? im doing 10 days right now, then 10 days on my secondary. i like the dry hops during secondary as well.

 

[cms]

Flame-out and during cooling sounds really close to me. I doubt you'll notice a difference.

I have an IPA in my primary at the moment that will go 14 days in primary and then 7 days dry-hopped in secondary. I think that's pretty typical.

 

[Golddiggie]

Typical of most of us, when brewing an ale, I'd do 2-4 weeks in primary. Dry hop for the last ~7 days in primary before bottling... I would decide when it's time to dry hop by tasting the brew starting after 2-3 weeks, as well as checking to see if it's hit FG yet. Once the FG is established, I'd wait for the flavor to be right before dry hopping. Then once the hop addition seems right, bottle it... No need to move to secondary at all. All you'll do is make more work for yourself...

I'm brewing an EESB Thursday evening that I'm thinking about dry hopping... Chances are, it will be on the yeast cake for 3-4 weeks before I dry hop it. Then it will have the hops in it for 1-2 weeks before I bottle it... 6 gallon carboy for the duration. NO racking to another carboy just to dry hop...

 

[kphipps06]

thanks. also do the yeast variations alter the flavor? what is the purpose in the variations of yeast?
and during steeping with an extract brew.. does the steeping of the grains always go about 45 min, then get removed before the boil? this is the process i used . i steeped for 45 min, removed the grain bags, added the malt, mixed well, then rolled the boil and added hops based on the recipe. just making sure i got the process down

 

[o4_srt]

thanks. also do the yeast variations alter the flavor? what is the purpose in the variations of yeast?
and during steeping with an extract brew.. does the steeping of the grains always go about 45 min, then get removed before the boil? this is the process i used . i steeped for 45 min, removed the grain bags, added the malt, mixed well, then rolled the boil and added hops based on the recipe. just making sure i got the process down

Yeast plays a HUGE part of the flavor profile. In fact, you cannot make certain types of beer without a specific type of yeast.

Different strains of yeast accentuate or create different taste profiles. Fruity, esthery, diacetyl, etc.

Your steeping method sounds pretty standard.

 

[Golddiggie]

The yeast can add a LOT to the brew... Look up the different profiles for yeasts that you're considering. I favor Wyeast liquid personally, since they have a lot to offer, and I get specific information for each strain.

If you take one specific grain bill, brew it the same twice, but use two different yeasts, you'll get two completely different brews (most of the time)... Very often, as stated already, the yeast actually makes the brew. Read up about yeast strains. Learn while you're still new to the obsession... It will be well worth the time.

When I was brewing extract with specialty grains, I would put the grain bag in with the cold water, then get it up to 160F, hold for at least 10 minutes before draining the bag and discarding (often putting it into a bowl first to get the last big out of the grain I could. I would get it up to 160F at a moderate speed, to give it a good amount of time to steep. It's ok to be a bit under 160F, so 150-160F is a safe range. If you're holding at 160F for 45 minutes, you're probably not doing harm, but I would go a little cooler for the majority (like 150-155F).

Some people add part of the malt extract at the start and the balance towards the end of the boil. I just added it all right at boil and started the timer for hop additions. I wasn't brewing pale ales then... I made one porter, an amber ale and a porter turned barleywine...

You can typically tweak recipes a little bit with extract w/specialty grains. Just don't let the grain bag get too hot or leave it in as you're getting up to the boil.

Personally, after three extract batches, I was ready for a bigger challenge and more flexibility. I made one partial mash, saw that I can mash grains and jumped into all grain brewing. I'll be brewing batch #10 Thursday evening, which is going to be my 6th all grain batch...

 

[kphipps06]

is there more equipment to purchase for an all grain batch?

 

[cms]

is there more equipment to purchase for an all grain batch?

Yup. There are a couple ways to go. Brew In A Bag method (which may just require a bag and some binder clips), and a more traditional all-grain method requiring, at the very least, a mash tun (mash-lauter tun). There's TONS of information about all these (and probably more, like partial mash, etc.) on this forum.

 

[Golddiggie]

Maybe... If you already have good sized pots, then you could just get a nylon grain bag and do the BIAB method... Or it's partial mash version... I would advise getting good sized pots so that you can do full batch boils as soon as possible... The partial mash is often a good mid-step. It gets you used to mashing grain, but you still have the DME option to help hit your OG. Of course, my PM batch was more like a full AG batch with some DME just to boost the OG...

If you want to go the cooler MLT route then it also depends on what you already have on hand. You'll want a pot to do full batch boils. But you can use a cooler you already have, if it's large enough. Typically people convert 10 gallon coolers into MLT's. Some have done 5 gallon coolers, but those limit you to how much grain you can mash for a 5 gallon batch. Plus if you think you ever might brew 10 gallon batches, you won't be able to with the small cooler. I converted my 70 quart Coleman Xtreme to be a MLT. Just needed the ball valve assembly, some extra o-rings, a bazooka screen (didn't want to do the stainless braid that many do, personal choice) and some silicon tubing to connect the bazooka to the valve. I think the extra hardware might have been about $65-$75 by the time it was all together.

You can use aluminum pots, as long as you properly condition it first... As outlined here... I did mine by boiling water in them for 30-60 minutes before the first batch. NO issues at all with using them. The 32 quart has a nice dark aluminum oxide layer on it (a protective barrier between the aluminum of the pot and the wort). Aluminum oxide is very TOUGH stuff. So, you can get a large pot, on the cheap, condition it and either use the BIAB or convert a cooler to be the MLT and go all grain.

You can do it for as little as $5-$6 if you have good sized pots, or spend a few hundred if you buying kettles and such... There are several steps between too. Plenty of options.

You'll also want to get some kind of wort chiller once you're doing full batch boils... You can make an immersion chiller out of 20' of 3/8" utility grade copper (about $20 at your local Lowes or Home Depot), a few fittings, and some tubing to run from the faucet and to the drain... Or you can buy one already assembled from many LHBS and online vendors.

 

[Gameface]

is there more equipment to purchase for an all grain batch?

There certainly can be a lot of equipment to buy for all grain, but you can do BIAB (brew in a bag) type all grain brewing and probably use mostly what you've got.

The biggest reason all grain requires more equipment is because higher gravity brews require a lot of grain, like 15-20+ pounds worth, and you have to add around 1-1.5qt of water per pound to mash it, so you need something big enough to hold all of that. Then you want to hold it at a specific temp, so a lot of people get a large cooler to mash in. Then with the strike water and sparge water you're going to have a lot of wort in your brew kettle, so you might want to buy a big ol' kettle to go along with your big ol' cooler. This also probably means you're going to want a propane burner so you can actually get your 7-8 gallons of wort to a boil. All this big equipment is hard to move around so you probably want ball valves, at the very least, on stuff so you can transfer water or wort more easily. When you get tired of doing it that way you might get pumps or a brew sculpture or both to make it that much easier. etc, etc, etc.

 

[Golddiggie]

Aye, it's a vicious circle of libation creation...

Look at it this way... Whatever the extra hardware is for all grain and partial mash, taking it however you wish, you can typically recover those costs pretty quickly.

If you brew every other weekend, on average, with 5 gallon batches. Say your average extract kit is $40. That's $1040/year in just ingredients. So, to brew that same batch with all grain, you can be looking at $10 a batch. So $260 a year... So, even if you spend $300-$500 on hardware to get up and running, which includes a grain mill, you're saving money in the first year alone.

I just ran the numbers for my hardware to brew 5 gallon AG batches... Not counting things I needed for when I started home brewing, or got anyway, just talking about to do it as I want. This includes a propane burner, Barley Crusher, pot converted into a kettle, converting my cooler into a MLT, and immersion chiller. Total spent was about $380. If you have a 40+ quart cooler already, you can convert it. You could do it cheaper too, depending on how you make the screening on the bottom of the cooler. You could spend more, if you kick the gear up a level.

I did all but my last all grain batch without the ball valve in the pot. After draining the wort out of the kettle after cool-down, I can't see ever having a brew pot that didn't have the ball valve in it. SOOOO much easier to get the wort into the fermenter that way. Put the tube into the primary, connect it to the ball valve, open valve, watch and shut valve when you reach the desired level. No more siphoning or pouring through a funnel, or scooping with measuring cups. Don't need to worry about the IC getting in the way either.

I would recommend at least reviewing your different options. If you want to get your feet wet before jumping into the ocean, do some BIAB partial mash batches. Then maybe some BIAB all grain batches. Hell, that's how I did it. As you can, get the other hardware.

I will say buying grain in bulk, with a group grain buy, is SWEET... Can't see ever not doing that again either.

 

[kphipps06]

awesome. Thanks guys. And is a glass carboy better for a primary? Currently I use a plastic primary and a glass secondary. And does the light affect the brew?

 

[Golddiggie]

I use PET carboy's for my beer... I only rack to another carboy when I need to either add another flavor element and want to harvest the yeast first, or need to get off of a flavor element and onto another one. Otherwise the brew stays on the yeast until it gets bottled up...

Keep it fermenting in the dark. If possible, a room/closet that the sun won't shine into. Otherwise, wrap it up in enough towels to block all light from getting to the wort. You can also build some light barriers to go around the fermenters, such as from black foam core board and gaffers tape. Early on, I used the box my kit came in, with a hole cut in the bottom for the airlock to come through. I also had the carboy wrapped in a heavy towel. Since then, I've had either enough items between any light sources and the fermenters, or I've closed doors, blinds, curtains to keep light to a bare minimum. I've even used the closet in the kitchen for them, when it wasn't too cold in there.