Beginner All Grain - Volume Differences

[ahefner33]

Hey,

I'm approaching my first all grain attempt and I am basically just going over everything before hand just to get all the numbers right so I'll know what to expect come brew day. I am little confused however on the water temps for the mash and sparges given from the actual recipe I am using and what BeerSmith2 is telling me.

The recipe from Austin HB says I need to heat to an infusion water temp of 170 to reach a mash temp of 150.

But when I plug in everything into beersmith2 and using the common 152 mash temp as the setting, it says I need to heat my infusion water to 163.7. Beersmith2 also tells me to sparge at 168 while the recipes calls for sparge temp at 175.

I know this is all pretty small but I dont want to get into the process and realize I need to keep adding extra heated water to get my temps up for the mash process but also a little confused on why the differences in the numbers given.

BTW this is a cream ale so thats the profile I have selected also.

thanks in advance

 

[Travestian]

Use this webpage. http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

It's pretty accurate for me as long as I enter everything correctly. Don't ask me how I know...

I usually heat my sparge water to about 172F.

 

[chickypad]

Beersmith is pretty accurate for me but it did take a little tinkering. It will likely take you a few batches to get your system dialed in. I'd suggest setting up an equipment profile, you may have to input the specific gravity according to the material your mash tun is made of. I find that if I check the "adjust temp for equipment box" and enter the correct grain and mash tun temp BS is usually very close (maybe a degree too low). I do always preheat the mash tun.

170 sounds pretty hot, I think that must be assuming no pre-heating. I have 2 different size systems, on both my strike temp tends to be 10-12 degrees higher than target mash temp depending on the size of the grainbill, mash thickness, etc.

 

[Hex23]

What you heat your strike water to is equipment dependent. There isn't any real way the Austin instructions could really indicate an exact temp unless they also happen to specify equipment. Maybe their number is based on the a common mash tun they sell? Same goes for Beersmith - to be very accurate, it has to know something about your equipment. I think it has some representative equipment profiles that could get you pretty close. You can also make a custom profile that matches your equipment, but it might take some experimentation to obtain the right numbers for MT weight and specific heat.

Before my first AG attempt I ran a grainless experiment to measure the thermal properties of my MT. It get's me pretty close, but I've also learned that I need my strike water to be about 1-2 F warmer to reach my desired initial rest.

Or if you want, you can try to take out the thermal properties of the MT and pre-heat it with hot water. I don't particularly like this approach as it wastes water.

 

[ahefner33]

What you heat your strike water to is equipment dependent. There isn't any real way the Austin instructions could really indicate an exact temp unless they also happen to specify equipment. Maybe their number is based on the a common mash tun they sell? Same goes for Beersmith - to be very accurate.......

Beersmith is pretty accurate for me but it did take a little tinkering. It will likely take you a few batches to get your system dialed in. I'd suggest setting up an equipment profile, you may have to input the specific gravity according to the material....

Thanks..

I have my equipment profile entered as with my setup (Pot cooler 5 gal). My plan and from what I've read/learned was to pour infused water, let sit and then add grains. But the difference in recipe and what beersmith gives me had me a little as I dont want to get stuck with something way off the 152 after adding the grain. My basic mash tun is a 5 gallon home depot cooler. Do you guys have a suggested temp to hit around 152? and does it matter on the amount of grain is being used to determine the strike temp?

Also with the sparge water is there a problem with having too hot of water or not hot enough?

 

[ahefner33]

Use this webpage. http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

It's pretty accurate for me as long as I enter everything correctly. Don't ask me how I know...

I usually heat my sparge water to about 172F.

Thanks for the link.

I know you said dont ask but how do you determine some of the inputs? Do you just use there defaults? Most of the constants and variables I don't really know what the correct input is

 

[chickypad]

My basic mash tun is a 5 gallon home depot cooler. Do you guys have a suggested temp to hit around 152? and does it matter on the amount of grain is being used to determine the strike temp?

Also with the sparge water is there a problem with having too hot of water or not hot enough?

As an example - I just finished small batch today in my 3 gallon drink cooler, mashing at 152 and with the way I have my equipment profile set Beersmith told me to strike at 162. I dump the water in kinda hot then let it equilibrate to the strike temp. I actually used 163 (as I mentioned BS for me tends to be about 1 degree too low), and I hit 152 right on after stirring well for a couple minutes. You may want to have some boiling water and a few ice cubes ready the first few times in case you are way off.

I sparge between 165-170. The theory of not going too hot is to avoid extracting tannins (although probably less of an issue with batch sparging because the pH is usually not an problem). Sparging too cold you may not rinse the sugars well.

But really, the first few times out I wouldn't sweat it too much. I couple degrees here or there for mash or sparge isn't going to kill your beer.
Remember RDWHAHB and have fun!

 

[dk21]

For your first attempt, you won't know for sure. In my opinion, you should determine your boil off rate with water (if you don't already know) and measure your mash tun deadspace with water. This will get you pretty close on volume. If it's not perfect, don't sweat it. Take good notes so you can make adjustments next time. You might want to plan on a 90 minute boil so that you'll likely have more than enough to get through 60 minutes, but if you're a bit short, no big deal.

Use defaults for things like grain water absorption and cooling shrinkage.

Heating strike water 20 degrees above mash temperature will likely overshoot, but everyone's system is different. You can always adjust with hot/cold water additions...just subtract the added volume from the rest of the water. Don't worry about being off by a degree or two. Again, keep good notes while learning your system.

Good luck!

 

[Hex23]

What equipment setting are you using in Beersmith? Beersmith does have a built in equipment type with some parameters for a 5 gallon cooler mash tun: "Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)". It's not the exact same cooler you have but probably not too far off. Be sure to have your Adjust Temp for Equip checked.

 

[ahefner33]

What equipment setting are you using in Beersmith? Beersmith does have a built in equipment type with some parameters for a 5 gallon cooler mash tun: "Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)". It's not the exact same cooler you have but probably not too far off. Be sure to have your Adjust Temp for Equip checked.

Hex, I'm using the Pot and Cooler (5gal/19L) profile with a few editings such as boil off of 1 gallon. Ill look for the Adjust temp for equip. Thanks

 

[chickypad]

Ill look for the Adjust temp for equip. Thanks

It's on the mash tab, in your screenshot.

 

[ahefner33]

It's on the mash tab, in your screenshot.

!! Thanks

Also I was wondering. Shouldn't my strike water volume be larger than my sparge volume? Was reading some of the stickies on the all grain thread and one of the tutorials mentioned this too and he stated he reverses these (uses the given sparge volume as the strike volume and vice versa)

 

[chickypad]

!! Thanks

Also I was wondering. Shouldn't my strike water volume be larger than my sparge volume? Was reading some of the stickies on the all grain thread and one of the tutorials mentioned this too and he stated he reverses these (uses the given sparge volume as the strike volume and vice versa)

It depends on your mash thickness and your target starting boil volume. I tend to mash the average batch around 1.3 - 1.4 qt/lb and my sparge volume tends to be just a bit more than my strike volume. If you mash thicker or thinner then your sparge volume would go up or down accordingly. Same thing with the boil off, if you boil off a lot you may need to sparge more to get your starting boil volume. Some folks, like the BIAB'ers, do no-sparge and put all the water in with the mash.

On the mash page if you double click the mash step you can set your ratio. I think the default is 1.25.

 

[ahefner33]

It depends on your mash thickness and your target starting boil volume. I tend to mash the average batch around 1.3 - 1.4 qt/lb and my sparge volume tends to be just a bit more than my strike volume. If you mash thicker or thinner then your sparge volume would go up or down accordingly. Same thing with the boil off, if you boil off a lot you may need to sparge more to get your starting boil volume. Some folks, like the BIAB'ers, do no-sparge and put all the water in with the mash.

On the mash page if you double click the mash step you can set your ratio. I think the default is 1.25.

Hey Thanks.

Yeah it gives me 3.20 gallons for mash and sparge with 5.26 gals.

Ive attached the recipe. Realized I have a final bottling set to 4.50 but I think this some how has been calculated with some fo the inputs I put in for boil off and transfer loss.

View attachment adams.bsmx

 

[chickypad]

Yes, the batch size is what BS considers as going into the fermenter. You have that set to 5 gal. On the volumes tab you have 0.5 gallon set as your bottling loss, giving you the 4.5. You also have your trub loss on that page set to .75. So your post boil volume is 6 gallons, with about .25 gal for cooling loss, and .75 trub loss in the kettle leaving 5 to go into the fermenter.

There are different ways to do set this up. I like to leave all my losses at 0 and then increase the batch size accordingly because I find it helps me to figure my numbers better. So for a batch where I want 10 gallons in the kegs, I will set the batch size at something like 11.5 knowing from experience that I lose about 1.5 gallons in the fermenter at packaging (I just dump everything in the fermenter post boil so all my "trub loss" from the kettle actually goes as "bottling loss"). You may want to set your batch size at something like 5.5, aiming to get that much in the fermenter. Then keep good records the first few batches so you can adjust from there.

I see you have the boil off set at 1 gallon per hr, do you know that or is it a guess? That's one of the first things to nail down or it will throw all your other numbers off. Try to measure that well the first time if you haven't already.

I also notice on the version you posted you don't have the adjust for equipment checked and the mash tun is not preheated (set at 72*). Don't forget those if you are planning to use that feature.