Before I make another bad brew

[pjcampbell]

Hello guys,
My first batch was a "Brew organic" IPA which I am finding is not very IPA like (to me).

The Brew organic IPA calls for:

8.5#Briess Organic LME
8oz Briess Caramel 20oL
8oz Briess Caramel 60oL

1/2oz NZ pacific gem bittering (14.0 AAU)
3/4oz NZ pacific gem flavoring (14 AAU).
1/2oz NZ hallertaur aroma (8.5 AAU)

It calls for 1968 Wyeast .

I made this and it was pretty bad, I am sure a good part of this was my fault. It was very sweet, estery and fruity. I attribute this to a few things, one being under pitching the yeast. Not only is 1 packet not enough (1.06 OG) but the packet was not even fully "expanded". Also Wyeast mentions 1968 is an estery yeast. Second, way too high ferment temps. 70+F. Even 74F for the first few days.

My basement is now 62F and It should sit around there (I can warm it up, but not cool it).

I bought another Brew Organic IPA kit and also bought an additional: 1oz Columbus hops, 1oz Hallertaur NZ .


Before I waste a lot of time and disappoint myself again, what should I change. It seems that I may have the wrong kind of yeast and not enough hops and maybe the wrong hops for my taste.

For comparability as a sort of not-feeling-adventurous go to beer I like stone IPA. That does not mean I need to make a Stone IPA clone but I think the above kit may be way too sweet and not hoppy enough for my taste.

Given the ingredients I have on hand, I could make a yeast starter and just use all of the available hops I have on hand? 1.25oz pacific gem for bittering , 1oz columbus (12.1% AAU) for flavoring and 1.5oz hallertaur aroma. I am not sure if this would end up being unbalanced or just an odd combination.

I could also go buy something different, my local store is Corrado's and I am not sure what they have or if it is quality. I am hoping to do a batch this weekend with a friend.

I heard that White labs California ale is a great citrusy yeast and may be more to my style.

Could anyone make any suggestions before I screw this up again Should I increase or change the hops. Any other suggestions . Thanks and sorry for the ramble.

 

[bertmurphy]

What was the final gravity? You didn't mention it so I'm assuming it attenuated just fine, especially at those temps. The sweetness may be attributed to esters from the high fermentation temps though. Lower temps and longer conditioning in the fermenter should fix that right up if that's the issue.

Wyeast 1968 is going to give you a more full bodied malty beer. From the wyeast website: "...this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish." I might go with the 1056 or 1272 for Wyeast if you want less sweetness.

Also, you didn't mention how long you boiled the hop additions, but my gut tells me your IBUs are prolly a bit low to balance out this IPA. You may want to add a little to the bittering addition and maybe dry hop if you're into lots of aroma. Centennial in place of the pacific gem will give you a good citrusy flavor, and I'd suggest cascade for the dry hop.

All in all, from what you've said, this recipe is all wrong for your taste buds. Any reason why you are sticking to this one?

 

[bniesen]

I would cut the crystal in half or up the base malt; only because of the crystal to base malt ratio. Lose the hallertaur, IMO it doesn't belong. Better off with Galena or Cluster in place of the hallertaur, perhaps.

Good luck!

 

[Yooper]

If you like American IPAs, I think you'll be very disappointed with hallertauer for flavor or aroma hops. Hallertauer is a classic "noble" hop from Germany, and it's great in lagers and cream ales for a hint of hops in the nose. But NOT for an IPA.

I'd do something more with American "C" hops- centennial, chinook, cascade. The yeast should be a "clean" well-attenuating ale yeast. Try S05 for dry, Wyeast 1056 or White Labs 001 for liquid. Make a starter if you're using the liquid yeast, but the S05 can be sprinkled directly onto the wort if the OG is in the 1.070 or less range.

You can certainly use the Columbus for bittering but for flavor I'd pick up some cascade and/or centennial. You need a bit more columbus, though. The Pacific gem is a hop from New Zealand, and I've never used it, but I've heard it imparts a "woody" or "blueberry" flavor. If you like it, you could use it if you want.

I'd do something like this:
1.50 oz Columbus [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops
1.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] (15 min) Hops
1.00 oz Cascade [8.00 %] (1 min) Hops

1 oz cascade or centennial for dryhopping.

 

[bertmurphy]

I would cut the crystal in half

I agree. The crystal is only there for residual sweetness and body. This might be ok for an English IPA, but not for an American IPA. That brings up a good point. You have an English IPA recipe when you should be looking at American style IPA recipes to get what you want out of the beer.

 

[erock2112]

What they said. And you're right about the pitching rate and the fermentation temps. The temperature of the fermenting wort is going to be higher than the ambient temperature, so even if your room is the right temperature, you might be fermenting too warm. That said, a 62 degree room is pretty perfect. Low-mid 70's ambient is too hot - it was probably in the high 70's, possibly even in the 80's during the most active part of fermentation.

 

[bniesen]

+1 on the temp control when fermenting. Yeast tend to put in more profound taste profile when at higher temps. The only yeast I like fermenting on the warmer side is Weizen 3068, it gives a nice banana bread like flavor/aroma (drool). Your basement is the same as mine, tends to stay in the low to mid 60's, which is about perfect for most ales.

 

[bertmurphy]

Make a starter if you're using the liquid yeast, but the S05 can be sprinkled directly onto the wort if the OG is in the 1.070 or less range.

+1

And not to derail the thread, but...

https://morebeer.com/view_product/19890
+
http://redkettlebrew.blogspot.com/2008/02/stir-plate-parts-and-pics.html
+
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
=
Best and cheapest way to get a good fermentation out of your 62F basement.

 

[bniesen]

not to knock the stir plate method but I always got goot fermentation from just pitching from the smackpack right into fermenter. I just recently started to make starters and so far only notice the lag time improve. But then again, I only brew 5 gal batches. I'm sure making enough of a starter for 10 gal batches would benefit froma stir plate.

 

[bertmurphy]

I always got goot fermentation from just pitching from the smackpack right into fermenter.

It is admittedly geeky and unnecessary, but if you want to brew 1.070+ beers then you either need to buy multiple smackpacks (or what have you) or make a nice starter. I just find the stir plate + erlenmeyer the easiest way to make one. You just put your dme and water in the flask, heat the flask on the stove, cool it down, pitch, and throw it on the plate. No need to transfer from one vessel to another, no need to rouse all the time, no need to aerate the 5 gallons of wort it is pitched into, and you know they're all staying in suspension and having a good time.

Point being, its a cheap and easy improvement to anyone's home brewery that has a good return on time/investment. Just my 2 pennies.

 

[bniesen]

yeah, higher gravity needs more yeasties.forgot. When I make my starters I just use a half gallon growler, follow the simple starter recipe for 5 gal. Boil, mix DME, cool, pitch, place foil on top, wait til brew day.

 

[pjcampbell]

Thanks guys. tons of info. I decided to "pitch" in for the premium supporter too since you guys are so helpful.

To answer some additional questions:
With this yeast and this OG of 1.06 , Wyeast suggests either a starter or a propagator pack for OG of 1.06 or higher. Mine was also not fully "inflated" when I pitched so that could have been an issue with low attentuation and high sweetness? I never saw it really do much work (i.e. I never had anything coming off the "blow off" tube or anything). It was also way too warm like we already covered

I measured the FG at 1.02 which may have been too soon. It was only 3 weeks.

I tried this recipe again because I thought it was just my mess up with the high temperatures and weak pitch so I figured I would see if I could get it better the 2nd time around, but in retrospect it may be a combination of that AND the grains, hops and yeast for my tastes. That was also my first batch ever, and this is my 2nd, so still learning a lot.

Is there a suggested different type and amount of "specialty grain" to go with the pale malt extract in addition to the yeast change, and hops change?

Assuming I don't jump into starters or plate things this time.. should I pitch 1 or 2 white labs california Ales ( WLP001 ).
Thanks again.

 

[kingmatt]

I measured the FG at 1.02 which may have been too soon. It was only 3 weeks.

I'd say this and your fermentation temps are probably the most likely culprits for your off tasting beer. Try to get your gravity down to around 1.010 or 1.012 if you can before bottling...

With an OG of 1.060 and an FG of 1.020 your apparent attenuation is only 65.5%, which is probably why your beer tastes too sweet.

 

[pjcampbell]

OK, here is what I did.

AT 100F -> 165F - grain bagged the speciality grains - 15 minutes.

AT BOIL: 1.25oz Pacific Gem (60 min)
AT 45 MIN: 1oz Centennial (15 min)
AT 55 MIN: 1oz NZ hallertaur (5 min)

With WLP001 *california ale*

A few quick questions...

1) My FG was only ~1.052 I was a bit confused by this as it's supposed to be more like 1.06. When I poured the wort into the fermenter, I only reached the 4 gallon mark, so I poured in a gallon of distilled water. I poured until the liquid (not the foam) reached the 5G mark. (I took FG reading AFTER additional water was added...could it have been that I didn't mix it well enough after adding the water)?

I had started with a solid 5+ gallons of water. I think more so than getting boiled off, a lot of volume got sucked up by the whole hops. What is the solution to this. Should I be squeezing out the hops!?

2) With WLP001 and I am looking for as strong of a beer as I can get out of a 1.052 OG beer, should wait for a 1.01 FG (80% attentuation?).

 

[bertmurphy]

AT 100F -> 165F - grain bagged the speciality grains - 15 minutes.

I would've gone for 30 minutes, then rinsed the grain bag with the wort to get all you can out of it (no squeezing).

Should I be squeezing out the hops!?

Start a 60 minute boil with about 6.5 gallons. You're going to lose 15% of that to boil off and about a good bit to the whole hops. You'll end up with a little more than 5 gallons in the fermenter, then once its racked or bottled you'll end up with the 5 gallons you're looking for. You can dial in your preboil volume by measuring how much was lost to the hops and racking/bottling, then add that plus 15% to your desired final batch size.

2) With WLP001 and I am looking for as strong of a beer as I can get out of a 1.052 OG beer, should wait for a 1.01 FG (80% attentuation?).

Make sure you did your temperature adjustment when you measured the starting gravity. I know its obvious, but you'll forget every once in a while. Don't worry about the OG as much as the finishing gravity. You can expect 73-80% attenuation with the 001, and for the most part its going to attenuate down a certain percentage and then stop. You can't really just wait it out per se. One thing you can do is increase the temp a few degrees during the last 1/3 of fermentation to drive the yeast to the finish line and make sure they clean up after themselves.

 

[pjcampbell]

OK Thanks. I will try starting with more starting water volume next time.

For the grains I have seen all sorts of suggestions, 25 minutes @ 165F, 30 minutes @ 160, an hour @ 155F, put them in cold and take out at 160F, etc. Wasn't sure what to do there really. I guess this really comes down to how much of the flavors of those grains you want to come out in the final product? I figured since you guys had mentioned these particular types of grains don't necessarily fit in with an American IPA I'd go less time rather than more on the "speciality" grains.

Now for the wait

 

[pjcampbell]

what we talk about stuff like 73-80% attenuation for WLP001, that is "AA" not "real attentuation" right?

 

[Yooper]

what we talk about stuff like 73-80% attenuation for WLP001, that is "AA" not "real attentuation" right?

Right.

As far as the specialty grains, you get pretty much everything out of them in 15-20 minutes at 160 or less. The method really doesn't matter.

The reason you see some "steeping" for an hour is when it's actually a partial mash recipe- it takes time for the enzymes to convert the starches to sugar. That's usually when you see that the water is heated to a certain temperature, and the grains are added, and kept at that same temperature for the entire time.

For regular steeping grains, it really doesn't matter if you bring the water to a certain temperature or add the grains and then turn on the heat. You'll get the same results. Just do what you are most comfortable with. I always did the "bring the water to 160 and add the grains and keep it at 150-155 for 45 minutes" method, because I never seemed to be able to figure out if I had simple steeping grains, or if the grains had to be mashed. Doing it the same way all the time covered my bases, so to speak!

 

[pjcampbell]

I wonder if my OG is low because I poured water in and did not mix then immediately took the hydrometer reading... I did end up sloshing it around a lot after that.