Beerstone Deposits in Bottom of Used Keg

[Nagorg]

I have acquired an old used keg that is in good shape except for what I believe are some Beerstone deposits on the bottom.

I've tried long PBW and StarSan soaks to no avail. I cant reach the bottom because of my fat arms but SWMBO was awesome enough to try scrubbing for me and confirmed that it seemed hard and wouldn't budge for her.

I've read some folks talking about using a hot vinegar soak with mixed feedback but I haven't tried that yet myself. The most assuring thing I've read about is FiveStar Acid #5 or #6 which is caustic and hard to find for the homebrew scale.

So, just wondering if anyone has tips I haven't read yet and/or knows of better sources for the FiveStar acids. I can find gallons for sale online but for the cost including freight I could just buy another used keg and scavenge this one for parts.

Thoughts?

 

[GlassForest]

In my opinion, One of the nice things about a snake keg fermenter is because you can boil them with PBW in there and I have had great success in cleaning that gunk off. I think heat is a nice trick to use for cleaning since they are able to take it, heating just as you would a keg kettle.

P.s. I'm sure it seems obvious but don't put the keg on a flame while the keg-stem is attached, EVER!!!

 

[Nagorg]

Okay, thanks for that. Does anyone have firsthand experience dealing with Beerstone in kegs? Should I bite the bullet and buy a gallon of Acid #6? Does it really work or should I just buy another keg?

 

[Ike]

http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/white-papers/removing-beerstone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/

An interesting read, actually...

 

[Nagorg]

Thanks skydiver30960... Reading that article makes me think:

1) I may be better off buying another keg...
2) But, perhaps I should also buy some Acid #6 and make it part of my routine keg cleaning process?

 

[Nagorg]

I guess there's no other input out there?

 

[Wayne1]

Acid 6 is Acid 5 with detergent. It is designed for use in recirculating keg washers and to CIP serving tanks without evacuating the CO2.

If what you have is beer stone, or an inorganic soil build up, then Acid 5 would be your best best as it is a blend of phosphoric and nitric acids.

Using between 1-4 oz per gallon and letting it soak overnight should remove most inorganic soil. Before using the acid, try a higher concentration of PBW. Use around 2-3 oz per gallon in 165F water and let soak overnight. Then rinse and add water and Acid 5.

Have your homebrew store order it, if possible. It is quite a bit less expensive if ordered in 4x1 gallon boxes.

PBW and Acid 5 should be part of your normal cleaning for your brewkettle. So far, after about 30 years, I have not found any need for Acid 5 in any of my corney kegs.

 

[Nagorg]

Thanks for the feedback Wayne1... I take it you use Acid 5. This helps...

I haven't seen BeerStone in any of my equipment or kegs except for this one. And, I'm assuming it is BeerStone from what I can determine.

I've found it for ~$25.00+freight at HomeBrew4Less.com. Guessing that's a decent price? From what you're telling me this wont be a wasted spend as I should use it on the kettle too..

 

[Wayne1]

Beer Stone is usually a light colored, thin deposit. In the kettle it can be somewhat tannish.

If you cannot get to the soil to manually scrub, it may be worth it to get something like a Carboy Cleaner to apply some physical force to help remove the soils.

Acid 5 is considered a hazardous material for shipping purposes. The shipping cost may be on the high side. Be very careful using it. Wear gloves and eye protection.

I do use it most every day as I brew professionally. I use it in my homebrew system as well as the 15 bbl system.

 

[Nagorg]

This is what I see...

 

[zachattack]

Have you tried some barkeepers friend and a green scrubbie?

 

[Nagorg]

I cant get reach the bottom of the keg; my arm is too fat and gets jammed up in the small opening at the top.

 

[CadiBrewer]

I had deposits like that on one of my used kegs. I used barkeepers friend and a green scrubby that I attached to the end of a stick with wire. I couldn't get my arm in there either without the stick. Took it right off.

 

[Nagorg]

Yeah... Well haven't tried a scrubby on a stick but like I said in my op, my awesome SWMBO was cool enough to try scrubbing it for me with a brillo pad. She said that it felt hard like a calcium deposit of sorts and didnt seem to budge. So, hopefully the Acid #5 thats on it's way to me will take care of it. If not....... Guess I'll have to order another keg and figure out how to use a gallon of acid I've never needed before.

 

[Nagorg]

Well, got my Acid #5. Did an overnight soak and the spot is still there. Rinsed and now doing another PBW soak. Tried a scrubby on a stick but this spot is still hanging around. Maybe it's not beer stone. But WTH is it? Wishing I had just bought another keg... :|

 

[Turkeyshot]

How about using a Dremel with a small polishing pad and some Barkeeper's Friend. It would give your more polishing power without scratching up the stainless. Just test on a small area to see the results.

 

[Nagorg]

How about using a Dremel with a small polishing pad and some Barkeeper's Friend. It would give your more polishing power without scratching up the stainless. Just test on a small area to see the results.

If I could get my hand and dremel down in the keg I might try that. But, it aint happening...

 

[ajdelange]

Beerstone is made up of calcium oxalate embedded in a protein matrix. Once it is on the only thing I know that will take it off is a mixture of equal parts nitric acid (to oxidize the protein), phosphoric acid (to dissolve the oxalate) and elbow grease. If you can't reach it to scrub it you are going to have a bit of a trial on your hands.

j=0
do
soak
scrub
j += 1
while (j < some_discouragingly_big_number)

might get it eventually.

 

[Nagorg]

So, your'e suggesting I do a few more intervals of Acid #5 soakings and more scrubbing?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, but with no guarantees.

 

[Nagorg]

So, the bigger question is: Should I cut my losses and get another keg or keep trying to get rid of this crud in the bottom of the keg? I don't feel good about racking beer on top of it. Given my experiences so far I'm leaning more towards another keg...

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Do you have any access to some small gravel, ( re: pea sized), to do the work of your hand that you can't get in there?
Put it in with your chemicals, and slosh it around well, ( with the lid on!).

Any friends that might be in some type of metalworking business?

Here @ work, we have a vibratory deburring machine, for deburring small parts.

Has small, irregular shaped ceramic media.

It'll come off!


Edit: Fix it!....................Don't make me come out there!..... ; )

 

[stever1000]

Did you get it off? I have 5 kegs which are coated about half way in beerstone...
any more tips?

 

[Nagorg]

Did you get it off? I have 5 kegs which are coated about half way in beerstone...
any more tips?

I did not succeed. Wound up removing all the parts for spares and tossing the thing to be safe. Ordered another used keg to replace it.
I have some acid number 5 if you need some! Lol