Couevas
Well-Known Member
I am at the theater now (typing this on my Iphone). Will reply when it is over.:rockin:
Beer Wars: The Movie
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Mattbastard
Well-Known Member
I'm one of em'
Great movie. I just got back. My theater was selling micro's.
Great movie. I just got back. My theater was selling micro's.
Mustangfreak
Well-Known Member
There was maybe 10 of us here in Abilene, and 6 of those were from the homebrew club.
19 in our theater. I snuck in Dale's Pale Ale.
I enjoyed it...not as much propaganda as I expected. Didn't really learn much bit still enjoyed it.
The round table was cool, wish that would have gone longer.
Shoot me, but Alstrom's comments on teh caffeine beer were spot on. It seemed to me Rhonda is just out to make a buck no matter what she says. Caffeine beer is a gimmick no matter how you look at it.
EDIT: Ben Stein seemed uninformed. A couple of his questions were obvious no-brainers. The one about what's stopping the big brewers from stealing craft brewer's ideas is already happening. I could think of 10 better questions.
I enjoyed it...not as much propaganda as I expected. Didn't really learn much bit still enjoyed it.
The round table was cool, wish that would have gone longer.
Shoot me, but Alstrom's comments on teh caffeine beer were spot on. It seemed to me Rhonda is just out to make a buck no matter what she says. Caffeine beer is a gimmick no matter how you look at it.
EDIT: Ben Stein seemed uninformed. A couple of his questions were obvious no-brainers. The one about what's stopping the big brewers from stealing craft brewer's ideas is already happening. I could think of 10 better questions.
Lucky you, they canceled it in Baton Rouge. Got there and was sitting in the theater. After about 15 minute after it was supposed to start they came in and said sorry, shows canceled. They couldn't get a satellite feed and didn't seem too interested in trying to fix it.
Anthony_Lopez
Well-Known Member
I agree as far as Alstrom's comment on the gimmick-ness (that a word?), however it did bring to light how hard it is to try and start a business in that market. I thought Greg and Sam were a little too glorified in the movie, and the Michael Moore-ish music kinda bothered me. All in all, it was an excellent movie, and myself and SWMBO talked business almost the whole way home. Charlie and Alstrom didn't get to say as much as I'd like to have heard.
llazy_llama
Well-Known Member
I'm just pissed that they took the copyright (or trademark, maybe? Not sure how that works) on the name Beer Wars. That was going to be the title of my autobiography.
WhatNotBrewer
Member
I was hoping the film would have had a wider variety of brewers' stories to tell, and while it started off like that, it ended up being the Sam and Rhonda show....I still love Sam however.
While I agree with the above poster about how Rhonda's story does bring light to difficulties of starting a new business/brand, it really didn't deserve the length of time it received in the movie, assuming it deserved any time at all. She's not even a brewer and no wonder she can't get anywhere, her line has no diversity, it's just one gimmicky product....duh!
I did find it interesting while clearly making the "Big 3" the bad guys, the film did seem to show a little big of respect to Coors and Miller, while ultimately choosing AB to be the ultimate villain of the film. While I couldn't agree more with the conclusions drawn about AB, it was still interesting how Coors and Miller weren't entirely indited.
Oh, btw, can someone explain to me how landing a job with Mike's Hard Lemonade throws you into the beer world????
PS. 14 people at my theater.
PPS Ben Stein was such a terrible host. I would have taken anyone with the slightest knowledge of beer or what the topics of the film were about. I'm assuming he was the cheapest celebrity the project could afford?
While I agree with the above poster about how Rhonda's story does bring light to difficulties of starting a new business/brand, it really didn't deserve the length of time it received in the movie, assuming it deserved any time at all. She's not even a brewer and no wonder she can't get anywhere, her line has no diversity, it's just one gimmicky product....duh!
I did find it interesting while clearly making the "Big 3" the bad guys, the film did seem to show a little big of respect to Coors and Miller, while ultimately choosing AB to be the ultimate villain of the film. While I couldn't agree more with the conclusions drawn about AB, it was still interesting how Coors and Miller weren't entirely indited.
Oh, btw, can someone explain to me how landing a job with Mike's Hard Lemonade throws you into the beer world????
PS. 14 people at my theater.
PPS Ben Stein was such a terrible host. I would have taken anyone with the slightest knowledge of beer or what the topics of the film were about. I'm assuming he was the cheapest celebrity the project could afford?
I didn't know this was a one night thing only, or that it was out this soon and I have been to a beer festival in the last month, the LHBS every other week, the beer distributer every week, and this forum almost every day. TERRIBLE promotion!!! I am actually very mad I did not know about it until 4 hours to late.
dzamba
Well-Known Member
I almost felt guilted into buying Moon Shot. Almost. That dude from the Beer Advocate slammed her. haha.
RogerMcAllen
Well-Known Member
My theater was pretty full.
I agree with pretty much everything above. Dead on about Rhonda being a marketer crying about not being able to sell the gimmick. She should have had a short clip with the title of "This is how not to do craft beer." I really liked how the real brewers had the motto of "Brew good beer, maybe we will sell some, if not at least we are making good beer."
I agree with pretty much everything above. Dead on about Rhonda being a marketer crying about not being able to sell the gimmick. She should have had a short clip with the title of "This is how not to do craft beer." I really liked how the real brewers had the motto of "Brew good beer, maybe we will sell some, if not at least we are making good beer."
cuinrearview
Well-Known Member
Agree with all of the above comments, especially the Micheal Moore take. All I could think about was the rabbit lady from Flint in "Roger and Me" as I was watching this movie. I'm beginning to get Sam Coilonge'd(sp) to death. I like what the guy's about but he reminds me too much of Keanu Reeves in Point Break.
The guy from BA's comment on Moonshot had me laughing out loud even after the tug at the heartstrings during the movie. I didn't see myself ever trying that beer even before that. The chick was obviously just in it for the money. Her appeal to AB for funding took away her credibility.
I could have watched the panel discussion all night if they could have kept it going.
15 people in my theatre.
The guy from BA's comment on Moonshot had me laughing out loud even after the tug at the heartstrings during the movie. I didn't see myself ever trying that beer even before that. The chick was obviously just in it for the money. Her appeal to AB for funding took away her credibility.
I could have watched the panel discussion all night if they could have kept it going.
15 people in my theatre.
ottobrew
Well-Known Member
Maybe 10 people in my theater, and that's including the 3 other people with me. I thought the info was interesting, and what's up with AB suing Dogfish Head for using "pumpkin ale?" That's hitting below the belt, even for them.
I thought it was a decent overview of the beer selling industry. There was good general information in there regarding distribution, bureaucracy, and the connection between the beer industry and the government. Though I never really felt that it focuses enough on any one thing and remained much too broad in each area. Also the filmmaker herself didn't seem to have much education about the craft BEER...just the craft beer INDUSTRY. And she certainly spends a lot of time beating it over your head that the big guys are really big and the little guys are really little. At some point, ok, I got it (even if I didn't already know - I'm trying to keep in mind someone watching this that doesn't know about every craft brew under the sun), even still...can we not keep going back to that same point with every single segment? It would have been nice to see a bigger segment of the "small guys". Instead it was pretty much all about Dogfish, with a little Stone, New Belgium and Sam Adams thrown in. It was obvious that the filmmaker found their stars with Sam from DFH and Rhonda, the woman trying to establish Moon Shot as a brand. From a storytelling aspect I get it, but as far as a representation of what is going on in the big picture it seems pretty shortsighted.
Also, Moon Shot doesn't belong in the same discussion as true craft brews like DFH and Stone and the guy from Beer Advocate pretty much drove that home in the post-film discussion. It's odd that she chose to cut that out of the final version of the film because that distinction is never made. There is a reason why Jim Koch wouldn't invest in that even though Rhonda is a co founder of Boston Brewing Co. It's kind of odd since Rhonda is a central figure in the film and it's essentially about her trying to sell a "brand" not necessarily a craft beer. She comes of as chasing the American (capitalist) Dream. Totally in it to make a buck on a gimmicky brand of beer. Which is fine in of itself I suppose, but she presents herself as part of the craft beer community. She may have been at one time, but what she is doing now doesn't fit the bill and isn't part of the "movement" happening with American craft brew. I don't have a problem with her trying to establish her brand (a caffeinated beer...marketed like an energy drink/beer with a lame "69" on the label to boot). But she seems to want to have things both ways...or any way in which she can become successful.
Also, Ben Stein was a piss poor choice to moderate. He pretty much sat and played devil's advocate reading questions off of a paper in sort of an accusatory manner. He did more to distract from the discussion than to direct it.
Overall, it's worth a viewing if you are interested in the beer selling world, but my suggestion is to keep in mind the perspective of a BMC drinker when watching it. I think it could open some eyes and taste buds up there...so it's a good thing for craft brew in the long run...if not a two hour commercial for DFH, as Sam comes off like the cool underdog that makes great beer and cares about the people that work for him that he legitimately seems to be.
What it's not is an in depth look at craft beer. It's not like they spend any time discussing characteristics of hops or which Russian Imperial Stout is the most killer brew, etc.
sorry for the ramble....too much to go back an edit and I'm psyched after catching the 3rd period and the quick OT Blackhawks victory over the Flames. It's been a longtime for plyoff hockey in Chicago. But I digress...
Also, Moon Shot doesn't belong in the same discussion as true craft brews like DFH and Stone and the guy from Beer Advocate pretty much drove that home in the post-film discussion. It's odd that she chose to cut that out of the final version of the film because that distinction is never made. There is a reason why Jim Koch wouldn't invest in that even though Rhonda is a co founder of Boston Brewing Co. It's kind of odd since Rhonda is a central figure in the film and it's essentially about her trying to sell a "brand" not necessarily a craft beer. She comes of as chasing the American (capitalist) Dream. Totally in it to make a buck on a gimmicky brand of beer. Which is fine in of itself I suppose, but she presents herself as part of the craft beer community. She may have been at one time, but what she is doing now doesn't fit the bill and isn't part of the "movement" happening with American craft brew. I don't have a problem with her trying to establish her brand (a caffeinated beer...marketed like an energy drink/beer with a lame "69" on the label to boot). But she seems to want to have things both ways...or any way in which she can become successful.
Also, Ben Stein was a piss poor choice to moderate. He pretty much sat and played devil's advocate reading questions off of a paper in sort of an accusatory manner. He did more to distract from the discussion than to direct it.
Overall, it's worth a viewing if you are interested in the beer selling world, but my suggestion is to keep in mind the perspective of a BMC drinker when watching it. I think it could open some eyes and taste buds up there...so it's a good thing for craft brew in the long run...if not a two hour commercial for DFH, as Sam comes off like the cool underdog that makes great beer and cares about the people that work for him that he legitimately seems to be.
What it's not is an in depth look at craft beer. It's not like they spend any time discussing characteristics of hops or which Russian Imperial Stout is the most killer brew, etc.
sorry for the ramble....too much to go back an edit and I'm psyched after catching the 3rd period and the quick OT Blackhawks victory over the Flames. It's been a longtime for plyoff hockey in Chicago. But I digress...
I was the only one in my town watching it to, but I really did enjoy it.
RandalG
Well-Known Member
And understandably so regarding Moonshot. Clearly a marketing gimmick. I didn't get this though. How can she be one of the co founders of Boston Brewing Co. and walk away with not much to show for it financially. I suppose it is bigger today than it was then but they made it sound like she was running on vapors ready to declare bankruptcy. Hell I was ready to write her a check. After seeing her at the discussion do you suppose she sold her hair to help finance her brewing company.
All in all it made some good points and I learned some stuff. I didn't realize how big Budweiser actually is.
All in all it made some good points and I learned some stuff. I didn't realize how big Budweiser actually is.
cuinrearview
Well-Known Member
LMAO!! That was the first thought that popped into my head!
NomNom
Active Member
8 people in my theater... Now I see why the tickets were $15!
NomNom
Active Member
Lucky you, they canceled it in Baton Rouge. Got there and was sitting in the theater. After about 15 minute after it was supposed to start they came in and said sorry, shows canceled. They couldn't get a satellite feed and didn't seem too interested in trying to fix it.
We had the same problem here in Columbia, SC. They finally fixed it about 10-15 minutes into the film
WhatNotBrewer
Member
It was $15 because it was an event! We got to hear Ben Stein stumble over his words, not be funny, and prove he knows nothing about beer
carnevoodoo
Well-Known Member
I thought a lot of the film was interesting and entertaining. I wasn't expecting any in depth discussion of craft beer at all. It was called Beer Wars because of the struggle between the craft industry and the big players.
That Moonshot lady pissed me off. I think that her product was terrible and she might have been at the right place to market Boston Beer, but she had NO clue about the craft industry. Todd A. ripping into her was great.
Also, I now love Sam C. He seems like a good guy to hang out with.
That Moonshot lady pissed me off. I think that her product was terrible and she might have been at the right place to market Boston Beer, but she had NO clue about the craft industry. Todd A. ripping into her was great.
Also, I now love Sam C. He seems like a good guy to hang out with.
carnevoodoo
Well-Known Member
My theater was pretty full. I'm thinking that bigger beer markets got bigger crowds.
Tonight members of my homebrew club, HomeBrewers Association of Middle Mississippi - HBAMM.org, and Raise Your Pints - RaiseYourPints.com joined up at a local theatre to watch Beer Wars. Wanted to say we had a grand time though you could hear mumbled curses and teeth grinding at certain points. We few intrepid "real" bier lovers here have a special hatred of the uphill battle we're waging in our efforts to gain full access to bier. It's pretty hard to imagine that Budwiser is suing DogFishHead over the use of Punkin in the title of their Pumpkin bier!
Just wanted to say we enjoyed it, not too much new information but it was entertaining. It really put a face on the battle for supermarket shelves and tastebuds!
Anyone else view the film yet??? I'm sure it'll be on DVD very soon.
Schlante,
Phillip
I figured there was a post on here already but I couldn't find it, had a problem with the search function. Moderators please move if there's another thread about this.
Just wanted to say we enjoyed it, not too much new information but it was entertaining. It really put a face on the battle for supermarket shelves and tastebuds!
Anyone else view the film yet??? I'm sure it'll be on DVD very soon.
Schlante,
Phillip
I figured there was a post on here already but I couldn't find it, had a problem with the search function. Moderators please move if there's another thread about this.
monkeychef
Member
I say let the big guys be big and the little guys be little. I enjoy the look I get when the guys are drinking BMC and I crack open an Aventinus. I don't really want to be drinking the "popular" beer. Not to mention the feeling when one of the guys asks to try a bit, and you manage to convert him to the dark side.
That being said, I really would like craft beers to continue being just popular enough for the local liquor store (2 in fact, close by) to keep stocking and selling me singles.
I also think it's funny that American beer used to be extremely diverse (one of Washington's favorite beers that he brewed himself was a porter) until we sent all our men off to war and the beer companies had to devise something for the women at home to drink. In came the Light American Lager, which plenty of "manly men" continue to guzzle to this day...
(Actually, Prohibition did way more damage to variety, but I like the way my version reads better)
That being said, I really would like craft beers to continue being just popular enough for the local liquor store (2 in fact, close by) to keep stocking and selling me singles.
I also think it's funny that American beer used to be extremely diverse (one of Washington's favorite beers that he brewed himself was a porter) until we sent all our men off to war and the beer companies had to devise something for the women at home to drink. In came the Light American Lager, which plenty of "manly men" continue to guzzle to this day...
(Actually, Prohibition did way more damage to variety, but I like the way my version reads better)
I am going to make my own Beer Wars movie that will be much better than this massed produced, watered down movie.
That's funny!
I too was wondering why they spent so much time on Rhonda. Really, she would love to become the next A-B. The neon wristbands she was handing out as a promo spoke volumes.
Overall a good film. IMO could have been better had they highlighted a few 'small town' breweries most of us have not heard of and their perspective on competing with BMC.
Final note: Sam is the man! I don't brew enough to get too crazy with my ingredients but I'm feeling inspired now.
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
I thought what Sam said was interesting,that the BMC breweries making "craft-style" beers actually hurt them because people may try this fake craft beer, think it sucks and never try a real craft beer ever because of their bad experience. It does piss me off that they basically make a crappy product and are strong arming people to buy it through marketing and squeezing out space for the craft brewer in the distribution and shelf space.
remilard
Well-Known Member
That's debatable. Are they selling what the people want or is what they sell the only thing people think is available?
I maintain that more people today like to tie a buzz on than like "beer" as defined by the American Light Lager crowd. America is a beer nation but we don't have the beer culture that exists in places like Germany and the UK. I think that's to the detriment of society. Bars are all about getting drunk and laid, not about meeting friends and producing discourse over a pint.
I don't buy this because, when I go to a pub in London, everyone is drinking Foster's or another American style lager. Clearly you can drink a mass produced lager in the English environment. I don't think the style of beer being served dictates the rest of the culture.
Rhoobarb
Well-Known Member
My wife & I saw w/ RandallG and some of his buddies last night. I thought it was okay, overall. It wasn't about craft beer and I didn't expect it to be with a name like "Beer Wars". If you want an enjoyable film about craft beers, see "American Beer".
One thing the film did very well was point out just how big an 800lb. gorilla A-B is. The kicker to me was when Sam Caligione showed the subpeana for a lawsuit A-B brought vs. him to stop using the terms Chicory Stout and Punkin Ale. DFH has used that for years. All this is for A-B is an attempt to drive him out of business and bleed the company dry in legal fees. It can't possibly stand up in court; it is simple bullying. It also showed how the 3-tier system of distribution is flawed.
Rhonda's Moonshot is a gimmick. I felt bad for her at first, then when she seemed miffed that Jim Koch wouldn't invest in her (a competitior after all), then was willing to get in bed with A-B, Miller, or Coors (this was all pre-merger) and, remembering that she was a marketer, not a brewer, I lost most of my sympathy for her. It'll take more than fake boobs and a gimmicky beer to save her company. I see her selling out in a year or two.
It was also interesting to see how A-B is trying to horn in on the craft beer market by making up phoney brewery names like the one in California for their Organic Ale. When we left, my wife and I felt like we should never, ever consume an A-B product again, even if it is the only thing available at a party. Before last night I had wanted to tour the brewery in St. Louis, since it is so close to home and I've never been. Now, I'm not interested any longer.
One thing the film did very well was point out just how big an 800lb. gorilla A-B is. The kicker to me was when Sam Caligione showed the subpeana for a lawsuit A-B brought vs. him to stop using the terms Chicory Stout and Punkin Ale. DFH has used that for years. All this is for A-B is an attempt to drive him out of business and bleed the company dry in legal fees. It can't possibly stand up in court; it is simple bullying. It also showed how the 3-tier system of distribution is flawed.
Rhonda's Moonshot is a gimmick. I felt bad for her at first, then when she seemed miffed that Jim Koch wouldn't invest in her (a competitior after all), then was willing to get in bed with A-B, Miller, or Coors (this was all pre-merger) and, remembering that she was a marketer, not a brewer, I lost most of my sympathy for her. It'll take more than fake boobs and a gimmicky beer to save her company. I see her selling out in a year or two.
It was also interesting to see how A-B is trying to horn in on the craft beer market by making up phoney brewery names like the one in California for their Organic Ale. When we left, my wife and I felt like we should never, ever consume an A-B product again, even if it is the only thing available at a party. Before last night I had wanted to tour the brewery in St. Louis, since it is so close to home and I've never been. Now, I'm not interested any longer.
GearBeer
Well-Known Member
There was a post over in General Beer Discussion, not sure if there was any discussion in it, though.
I saw Beer Wars last night, I thought it was pretty good. However, I would have preferred a little more panel discussion and a little less documentary.
Holy crap Ben Stein is getting old!
I saw Beer Wars last night, I thought it was pretty good. However, I would have preferred a little more panel discussion and a little less documentary.
Holy crap Ben Stein is getting old!
Prohibition destroyed our (USA) beer/tavern culture and the UK has groups such as CAMRA actively trying to educate "Lagerboy" on traditional UK beer.
Simply because you can have a pint of BMC doesn't change the fact that the US bar is totally different from the traditional British or Irish Pub.
furloaded
Member
I toured the brewery in St Louis a long time ago with my brother. They have these college girls on summer break pepper the tour with these canned promo bits about whatever they are pushing at the moment. After listening to yet another plug for bud Dry my brother raises his hand and asks: " when are you going to make Bud Ice Light Dry Draft" I nearly pissed my pants.
That Moonshot lady pissed me off as well. She would sell pig urine in a can if she thought she could hit the jack pot. Why doesn't she just get a job as an AB rep? She said she had 16 investors trying to get her beer off the ground. I want to know who these idiots are so I can get some of their money.
P.S. Ben Stein is an idiot
That Moonshot lady pissed me off as well. She would sell pig urine in a can if she thought she could hit the jack pot. Why doesn't she just get a job as an AB rep? She said she had 16 investors trying to get her beer off the ground. I want to know who these idiots are so I can get some of their money.
P.S. Ben Stein is an idiot
If selling pig urine in a can would make me hit the jack pot then I would do it. That one seems like a no brainer to me.
furloaded
Member
I would too, but I wouldn't show my face on a craft brewers panel.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
I saw the movie and I think it's worth noting that AB became big after they developed light, adjunct beers (innovative at the time of 6-row barley). Who made them successful? American consumers. Who continues to make them successful today - American consumers and the fact that they have a monopoly.
It's not different then Microsoft today. They initially came up with an innovative product people wanted, became very successful, and have continued to maintain their monopoly status despite the best efforts of many people in the software industry. Are then innovative today? Absolutely not. Do people still buy their watered down products in mass? Yes!
I think the movie captured that point very well....And they also asked what would happen to Dogfish Head and Stone if they become that large. If they become publicly traded, I would suspect the very same thing. Eventually, it becomes all about profits and you lose sight of your original vision.
Money rules the world...
It's not different then Microsoft today. They initially came up with an innovative product people wanted, became very successful, and have continued to maintain their monopoly status despite the best efforts of many people in the software industry. Are then innovative today? Absolutely not. Do people still buy their watered down products in mass? Yes!
I think the movie captured that point very well....And they also asked what would happen to Dogfish Head and Stone if they become that large. If they become publicly traded, I would suspect the very same thing. Eventually, it becomes all about profits and you lose sight of your original vision.
Money rules the world...
You are totally correct, the people that grew up with BMC will continue to drink BMC because they are use to it and don't want to stray from that. The few people that do want to stray from a BMC and new and upcoming beer drinkers that have more choices like craft brews will hopefully slowly sway the percentages more throughout the next decades.
My theatre was almost full, and it holds close to 150 people. One of the local distributors had 20 people there for work research/to see how it made them look. I talked to one guy after and he said the three tier system really IS as bad as the movie made it, but luckily we live in CA so we can self distribute
bdnoona
Well-Known Member
Did they have any marketing for this event at all? Besides their website I mean? I'm obviously a homebrewer and visit this forum everyday, and I didn't realize that this was a one time event. I thought it was just a documentary coming out eventually. It was even showing at a theater about three miles from here too. If I would've known the details about this, I probably would've had ten of my friends (who also brew) to go with me. Sadly, all I can hope for now is a DVD in a year. They really could've done a better job getting the word out on this.
deepsouth
Well-Known Member
ten in gulfport, ms. no beer served and the only place serving beer after nine were the chains with the only craft offering a sam adams lager.
Reverend JC
2500 gallons year to date
There was over 180 in the theater I was at, but I guess when you have an active craft beer community thats what you get.
I thought the main message behind it was good. I could have gone without all of the time spent on the caffinated beer lady.
When it all comes down to it, if any of us where in ABs shoes, we would do everything we could to stay on top. That does not mean I like it or their products.
edit: Yes the three tier system is horrible for smaller/newer breweries. Here in NE we had it on good info that the distibutors would not stand in the way of allowing us to self distibute, bill goes to committee and BANG, here come the ass holes and stop it from advancing with their lobbiest. They do not stop people from buying our beer but they do take 30 dollars a keg profit for FU&KING NOTHING. d!ck heads.
I thought the main message behind it was good. I could have gone without all of the time spent on the caffinated beer lady.
When it all comes down to it, if any of us where in ABs shoes, we would do everything we could to stay on top. That does not mean I like it or their products.
edit: Yes the three tier system is horrible for smaller/newer breweries. Here in NE we had it on good info that the distibutors would not stand in the way of allowing us to self distibute, bill goes to committee and BANG, here come the ass holes and stop it from advancing with their lobbiest. They do not stop people from buying our beer but they do take 30 dollars a keg profit for FU&KING NOTHING. d!ck heads.
RandalG
Well-Known Member
I also loved the bit about the blind taste test.Of course who knows how many got it right compared to what they showed.I'm going to have to do my own study at the next party we have with all my BMC friends. I think that it would be hilarious.
