Beer turned out HORRIBLE!

[Jordan Logo]

Hello all!

Just trying to get some input as to why the beer I brewed turned out so bad! I have a thought in my head why, but I wanted to see what you guys thought

Original Grain Bill (not my recipe):

5.5 Gallon Batch

6lbs Flaked Wheat
4lbs Breiss 2 Row
4oz Flaked Oats

.65oz Amarillo 20mins
.50oz Amarillo 15mins
1oz Amarillo Whirlpool

.1oz Coriander
.1oz Bitter Orange Peel

So I’ve brewed this beer on a 3 gallon scale and it turned out amazing. The thing I changed about this 5.5 gallon batch was instead of using flaked wheat, I used 7lbs of White Wheat Malt - my LHBS unfortunately ran out of Flaked Wheat. I also changed up the hops and used Cascade instead of Amarillo.

The reason I believe it tastes so bad is because of that added White Wheat Malt. The smell on the beer is super malty and alcoholic compared to my last batch which was a pleasant smell of bread yeast/hops. Also, the taste is also malty as all hell, almost like a cheap 40oz you get at a liquor store. At least I get some orangey/citrus after taste from the Cascade.

So what do you guys think? Am I spot on? I’m no quitter so I won’t be throwing this beer out no matter how bad it is, but my next brew day will be sooner than I expected!!!!!

PS: Will this mess up my yeast? I harvested a good amount of yeast from this batch to use on my next brew of the same beer (with the correct ingredients of course) but I’m hesitant to use the yeast due to the bad beer - will this harvested yeast impart that bad flavor to my next batch?

 

[eric19312]

Hello all!

Just trying to get some input as to why the beer I brewed turned out so bad! I have a thought in my head why, but I wanted to see what you guys thought

Original Grain Bill (not my recipe):

5.5 Gallon Batch

6lbs Flaked Wheat
4lbs Breiss 2 Row
4oz Flaked Oats

.65oz Amarillo 20mins
.50oz Amarillo 15mins
1oz Amarillo Whirlpool

.1oz Coriander
.1oz Bitter Orange Peel

So I’ve brewed this beer on a 3 gallon scale and it turned out amazing. The thing I changed about this 5.5 gallon batch was instead of using flaked wheat, I used 7lbs of White Wheat Malt - my LHBS unfortunately ran out of Flaked Wheat. I also changed up the hops and used Cascade instead of Amarillo.

The reason I believe it tastes so bad is because of that added White Wheat Malt. The smell on the beer is super malty and alcoholic compared to my last batch which was a pleasant smell of bread yeast/hops. Also, the taste is also malty as all hell, almost like a cheap 40oz you get at a liquor store. At least I get some orangey/citrus after taste from the Cascade.

So what do you guys think? Am I spot on? I’m no quitter so I won’t be throwing this beer out no matter how bad it is, but my next brew day will be sooner than I expected!!!!!

PS: Will this mess up my yeast? I harvested a good amount of yeast from this batch to use on my next brew of the same beer (with the correct ingredients of course) but I’m hesitant to use the yeast due to the bad beer - will this harvested yeast impart that bad flavor to my next batch?

Any difference in OG/FG between the two versions? I’d think the original recipe might have trouble converting the starch leading to a fairly starchy unfermentable wort. I’d use it for brewing a sour beer to leave lots of starch for the bugs.

 

[TheMadKing]

There's no shame in dumping a batch you don't enjoy drinking

The white wheat malt likely increased your OG way beyond the original recipe so you've made a far stronger beer than you intended. Malted grain produces much more fermentable sugar than flaked grain

The yeast will likely be fine though

 

[RM-MN]

What do you use for temperature control during fermentation? The season has changed from winter to summer and unless you control the temperature of the fermentation you get fusel alcohol which gives an alcoholic taste even with the same level of alcohol.

The other possible factor is also related to seasonal change. If you didn't account for warmer grain and less heat loss during the mash you effectively mashed too hot which then leads to a more malty beer.

 

[Dland]

Cold crash and age, it will get better, even if it is not what you want. You can always blend with a batch that comes out weak & insipid.

 

[Jordan Logo]

Any difference in OG/FG between the two versions? I’d think the original recipe might have trouble converting the starch leading to a fairly starchy unfermentable wort. I’d use it for brewing a sour beer to leave lots of starch for the bugs.

Yes! The “bad beer” has a MUCH higher alcohol content (about 1.0% higher to be exact)!

As far as the original recipe, it usually converts perfectly - awesome recipe.

There's no shame in dumping a batch you don't enjoy drinking

The white wheat malt likely increased your OG way beyond the original recipe so you've made a far stronger beer than you intended. Malted grain produces much more fermentable sugar than flaked grain

The yeast will likely be fine though

That’s what I thought as well... it came out a whole 1.0% higher lol

What do you use for temperature control during fermentation? The season has changed from winter to summer and unless you control the temperature of the fermentation you get fusel alcohol which gives an alcoholic taste even with the same level of alcohol.

The other possible factor is also related to seasonal change. If you didn't account for warmer grain and less heat loss during the mash you effectively mashed too hot which then leads to a more malty beer.

I use a fermentation fridge! The recipe calls for pitch at 64°F then naturally rise to 78°F - unfortunately here in California my house doesn’t get past 75°F so I use a little heat pad to supplement it to push it those last 3°.

I keep hearing the mashing too hot thing... the recipe calls for 152°F for 90 mins and I did that, then sparged at 168°F. Is my sparge too hot?

 

[RM-MN]

I use a fermentation fridge! The recipe calls for pitch at 64°F then naturally rise to 78°F - unfortunately here in California my house doesn’t get past 75°F so I use a little heat pad to supplement it to push it those last 3°.

How long did you keep the fermenting beer at 64? If you let the beer just free rise you probably still got fusel alcohol. If you kept it at 64 for 3 or 4 days first, then probably not.

I have trouble telling the difference in taste between a 5% beer and a 6% beer which is why I wondered about fusel alcohol being the culprit.

 

[Jordan Logo]

How long did you keep the fermenting beer at 64? If you let the beer just free rise you probably still got fusel alcohol. If you kept it at 64 for 3 or 4 days first, then probably not.

I have trouble telling the difference in taste between a 5% beer and a 6% beer which is why I wondered about fusel alcohol being the culprit.

I think you may have found the problem... on my last batch I didn’t read the directions as it said to free rise to 64° and let it sit at 64° for about 9 days then let it rise to 78°! This batch I went ahead and pitched at 64° and free rose from there.

 

[Yooper]

Which yeast strain did you use? Few would be "good" above about 72 degrees or so, but many would be absolutely foul at above 75 degrees. I would be willing to bet it's fermentation temperatures to blame for this batch not turning out the same. A 1% ABV difference is not usually even discernible in a good recipe (and adding wheat malt instead of some of the flaked wheat is ok).

 

[Blazinlow86]

I also think it's fermentation related and not your grain bill substitutes. Cheers

 

[SoCal-Doug]

IMO... Your recipe is fine (might be a tad high on the coriander if its really fresh and slightly crushed). Your fermentation got too hot. It generated some esters, phenols, and fusels that are not agreeing with your taste buds. No harm, no foul.

Future: Keep it below 70 for at least the first 3 or 4 days (when most of the fermentation byproducts are being created, 65 to 68 would be better). I would put a limit on the ramping to 75.

 

[Jordan Logo]

Which yeast strain did you use? Few would be "good" above about 72 degrees or so, but many would be absolutely foul at above 75 degrees. I would be willing to bet it's fermentation temperatures to blame for this batch not turning out the same. A 1% ABV difference is not usually even discernible in a good recipe (and adding wheat malt instead of some of the flaked wheat is ok).

Yeah I’m using Wyeast 3944 which I just looked up and is best between 62-75°F. I guess we found our culprit!

 

[eric19312]

Belgian yeasts can do well at pretty high temps especially at the end of the fermentation.

Assuming you used the same yeast in both batches it seems you fermented batch 1 at 64. What you did after 9 days is mostly irrelevant. On batch 2 you started at 64 and let it free rise. How long did it take to get to 70? How long to 75? If it took you 4-5 days to get to 75 you probably did it right. I am thinking this is actually the more traditional way to brew with belgian yeast and designed to get the yeast to express more "belgian character".

Perhaps you are not really a fan of belgian character given your preference for the beer fermented at 64. One cool thing about homebrewing is really learning about beer flavors and understanding what you like and don't like. You might find you like this recipe even better brewed with a clean ale yeast like WLP-001 or US-05.

I'd be curious to see how other brewers and friends might react to your latest batch. Would be awesome if you could take a couple bottles to a homebrew club meeting or enter into a competition.

Two other considerations come to mind
contamination...again getting some other brewers to taste might help you assess that as a possibility. BJCP certified judges should be especially helpful in detection and description of contamination.
yeast health...another way to push belgian yeasts to express more (and maybe too much) belgian character is to underpitch. Did you pitch the smack packs direct or build up starters? Was one of the yeast packs fresher than the other one?