Beer line tests & solution to the "plastic" taste

[kal]

Doesn't matter how you coil it up. It won't do anything. I do the same thing. I use the same stuff as you (close to the same lengths) and I think your PSI is too high. Turn it down to 5-8 PSI and leave it for a good 2-3 weeks in the fridge. Then try again. 1 week isn't enough to carb up the beer unless you shake it once and a while.

I leave my PSI at around 5 and simply wait 2-3 weeks for the beer to carb up to that amount. This also helps with initial aging and settling. It's a nice, perfectly carb'ed pub style beer like you typically get on tap. Not quite as fizzy as bottled stuff but then I find most bottled stuff too fizzy but that's just me.

You'll ALWAYS get a pour no matter how low the PSI is, it'll just be slower at lower PSI's. So set your PSI to the carb level you want and then play with the length of hose to compensate. This PET-lined bev seal stuff is super slippery inside so there's very little resistance, which in turn means you'd probably need 50-70' of it to get a good (slower) pour rate at 12-14 PSI.

Since you probably don't want to start messing around with different lengths, do it the opposite way: Turn it down to 5-8 PSI now (you'll have to pop your regulator safety valve a few times as you do this to get it to register correctly at the lower pressure), then wait a few hours and then see if you like the pour rate. You should notice no more foam. If that works ok, wait a couple of weeks to let the beer carb up see if you also like the carb level. If you find it's too flat your only option is to turn up the PSI and also increase the line length if the pour starts to get too fast.

Kal

 

[Diablotastic]

Thanks for the tips.....I'll give that a shot

 

[Diablotastic]

I wonder if I could go with more of a force carb method as apposed to a set it and forget it method.

Maybe I could jack up the PSI and shake around a bit and then eventually purge the excess pressure and turn it down to a better serving pressure if I'm desiring a little more carb in the beer.

Rather not have to scarp the lines and go with longer ones if I don't have to

 

[Coastarine]

I just hooked up 3/16 vinyl tubing from NB and I'm getting no plastic taste at all. It is Perlick tubing.

 

[kal]

I just hooked up 3/16 vinyl tubing from NB and I'm getting no plastic taste at all. It is Perlick tubing.

How long are you letting the beer sit in the tubing before sampling the first 1-2 oz?

Kal

 

[Coastarine]

I'm not just pulling an ounce or two, I'm pouring a 12oz beer from 6' lines after about 24 hours.

 

[kal]

To see if there's any taint, wait overnight and try just pulling 2 oz and taste it. On my tests I found that pulling a full 12 oz diluted the plastic taste quite a bit as you're diluting the beer that was sitting in the line (2 oz or so) with 10 oz of beer that's coming straight from the keg.

Lesson learned: If you always pull a full 12 oz then don't worry about it.

Kal

 

[Spine]

To see if there's any taint, wait overnight and try just pulling 2 oz and taste it. On my tests I found that pulling a full 12 oz diluted the plastic taste quite a bit as you're diluting the beer that was sitting in the line (2 oz or so) with 10 oz of beer that's coming straight from the keg.

Lesson learned: If you always pull a full 12 oz then don't worry about it.

Kal

Just an update - got the "replacement" tubing from morebeer and it had the exact same problems as the first one. Put in my arrow PVC line and the taint was greatly reduced, although still present in the first 1-2oz like you mention. Now I know what the smell is like (from the morebeer stuff) it seems I have heightened smell towards this. At least with the arrow stuff it doesn't make you want to barf upon smelling it like the morebeer stuff.

Thanks for the experiments you did on the subject, hopefully this will alert people to the issue.

Mike

 

[kal]

Just an update - got the "replacement" tubing from morebeer and it had the exact same problems as the first one. Put in my arrow PVC line and the taint was greatly reduced, although still present in the first 1-2oz like you mention. Now I know what the smell is like (from the morebeer stuff) it seems I have heightened smell towards this. At least with the arrow stuff it doesn't make you want to barf upon smelling it like the morebeer stuff.

Call them and ask for a refund on the item plus shipping costs, and tell them to stop lying.

Kal

 

[malnutriton]

Hey Diablotastic,

I have had a similar issue in my new build and have found that if you do "hypercarb" ie shake under high pressure and then back the psi down to 12-14 for 2 days the carbinaton wil be just fine. The trick to a good pour is to turn the psi down to ~5 and vent the keg before pouring. Just remember to turn it back up when done for the night or youll have some undercarbed beer.

 

[Diablotastic]

Yeah I think the PET lined 1/4" stuff I have is more for longer commercial runs....I'm going to try some 3/16 Bevflex 200 PVC stuff from Keg Connection and see how this works...If I get any taint then I'm going to consider those inserts that were talked about here........https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

Todd from Kegconnection said the bevflex 200 stuff he's getting he hasn't had any issues and also uses this in his home like the kuritek engineer that Kal had spoke with

 

[JesseRC]

OK, I'm not understanding why this is such a big issue, I mean establishments have been serving beer for ages using beer line, and when I bought my first two cheap faucets and line from keg connection , I never thought twice about. I've seen your post, but didnt have anything to comment cuz I havnt experienced it. So last week I upgrade to 4 faucets, I added 2 perlicks (these are awesome , the pour is awesome) with 10 ft of line each. Well i take a sip and blahhhhh. I cant even drink it. It's horrible.... and only on the 2 newly upgraded line. I throw it out and pour another pint. It taste great again. Ok maybe it will go away. Come back a few days later. Try it and blahhh....I pour it out and its fine. Come back 30 minutes later and again its crap. What's up with this.

I mean I know some of us have sensitive taste, but come on.. we talk about beer head to give us those special notes , and all I get is this crappy smell and taste. I only drink a pint a day... I think throwing out the 1st pint sucks. Thats half of my keg down the drain. I know what I am gonna do , order from keg connection. But what about where I bought this recent line from? Shouldnt they be selling the good stuff. I wont' mention their name, I like the place, and moderators always shut down every thread with there name in it, so I just want answers.

Will this taste go away eventually?
I ran 3 gallons of starsan followend by 3 gallons of hot water through it . Did I do something wrong?

 

[JesseRC]

One more note: I let the starsan sit in there for about 10 minutes. Should I have left it in there longer?

 

[McKBrew]

Maybe it's just me, but I've been running cheap home depot beverage line from day one and have not had these plastic issues that seem common. I always pour off an ounce or two if I haven't opened the tap in a few days, but I'm not even sure that is needed with my system.

It sucks that you all are having issues with more expensive line.

 

[JesseRC]

So home depot huh. I guess I've never seen it. What's it called? I guess my issue is , this place I bought it from is reputable, I just can't believe others havn't ranted about it. This thread is only 6 pages long, so I'm wondering if the taste just goes away or what?

 

[McKBrew]

I'm using Watts vinyl tubing (3/16" ID) sold in 20' rolls at my Home Depot for about 3 bucks a roll. The only issue I have is that it is not as flexible as some of the other tubing out there, but no plastic taste that I've noticed.

 

[JesseRC]

THanks McBrew, I'll have to try it for being that cheap.

 

[McKBrew]

THanks McBrew, I'll have to try it for being that cheap.

Worst case, if it doesn't work out for you, you aren't out a bunch of cash.

 

[kal]

OK, I'm not understanding why this is such a big issue, I mean establishments have been serving beer for ages using beer line

It does subside over time (the flavours leech out into the beer) and bars serve beers every few minutes not just once or twice a day like many of our bars.

It`s not uncommon for a bartender to pull a beer from each tap at the start of the day and pour it out either.

Kal

 

[JesseRC]

Yeah, except yesterday I pulled a pint out. THen poured a pint and drank it. Came back to pour a pint 15-20 minutes later and the plastic taste is back. That's pretty quick. The online store I bought it from said I really need to use BLC to clean the line first. Does anyone really do this. I have BLC, but its caustic and I didn't really want to use it unless I had deposit (beerstone).

 

[JesseRC]

I'm using Watts vinyl tubing (3/16" ID) sold in 20' rolls at my Home Depot for about 3 bucks a roll. The only issue I have is that it is not as flexible as some of the other tubing out there, but no plastic taste that I've noticed.

I checked out that line and it says its not to be used on Ice makers and its not to be used where constant pressure will be applied. I just ordered some bevlex from Kegconnection

 

[McKBrew]

I checked out that line and it says its not to be used on Ice makers and its not to be used where constant pressure will be applied. I just ordered some bevlex from Kegconnection

Cool. I didn't see pressure warnings on the stuff I bought, but maybe I should keep an eye on it.

 

[McKBrew]

I checked out that line and it says its not to be used on Ice makers and its not to be used where constant pressure will be applied. I just ordered some bevlex from Kegconnection

Can you give me a link to that tubing, couldn't find it on kegconnection?

 

[Diablotastic]

I think they only sell the bevflex stuff...my order is on the way.

When I spoke with Todd this is the same stuff he uses in his own home system

 

[JesseRC]

yes, that's all they sell. I called Ben on Friday and asked him if he still sold Bevlex , he said that's all they sell. I few months ago my gas line was not Bevlex, he said they sold some other brand for a month but went back to Bevlex. The other brand from my online purchase (which taste like liquid plastic on tap), they say is from Sapo Plastics. I couldnt find anything about it.

 

[McKBrew]

Is that the stuff they are selling for .49 a foot?

 

[JesseRC]

yes, in the picture you can see it says bevlex and I confirmed on Friday.

 

[McKBrew]

yes, in the picture you can see it says bevlex and I confirmed on Friday.

Thanks. ,,,,,,,

 

[kal]

FYI. Bevlex hose from kegconnection is what I used in my original tests (see the first post of this thread, vinyl hose #6).

It had too much taint for me.

Kal

 

[JesseRC]

FYI. Bevlex hose from kegconnection is what I used in my original tests (see the first post of this thread, vinyl hose #6).

It had too much taint for me.

Kal

Yeah i read your post, but honestly I can't taste it. I have 2 lines with Bevlex and 2 with this sapo line. I already cleaned the Sapo lines with BLC and nothing. I tried my best to drink it up , but honestly it is just unbearable. Its in the nose and taste. Thanks for you test though. Oh and can I really get the 3/16 poly on the 1/4" barb? It seems like it'd be a *****!

 

[McKBrew]

You can get 3/16" tubing on a 1/4" barb with a bit of work (soak it in hot water and it's a lot easier). Getting it off is a PITA, although maybe a hair dryer would warm it up enough to pull it off.

 

[Diablotastic]

FYI. Bevlex hose from kegconnection is what I used in my original tests (see the first post of this thread, vinyl hose #6).

It had too much taint for me.

Kal

yeah i noticed that you did a taste comparison....I'm going to give it a shot and see if I can pick it up

If it's full of "TAINT" then I'm gonna try to go back to the PET 1/4" stuff I got but add some resistance to my liquid dip tube

 

[McKBrew]

Since I'm getting ready to place a large order from ChiCompany, I think I might give this stuff a shot. Hose & Tubing : CHI Company ball lock kegs for sale, Home brewing and vending, beer kegs, Pepsi vending machines, flavor strips and vending labels

 

[JesseRC]

By chance , did any of you clean your lines with BLC prior to testing? The vendor said I needed to do so, I did , but still have the taste.

 

[ftlstrings]

Nice bit of home-brew-ed research going on here! Thanks for the well presented info.

 

[noisy123]

I too am looking at beer lines and have a couple of questions. First I would like to know if anyone has found a US distributor of Kai's recommended lines. Also, I would like to know if anyone has found a 3/16" solution to this problem. I have posted a page from the McMaster-Carr catalog for FEP-lined tubing. They claim:
Material Type

Features
PVC: Flexible, economical, and versatile.
PVC (FEP-Lined): Inert FEP lining provides higher chemical resistance while maintaining clarity and flexibility. Won't impart odors or taste, or taint food or beverage.

The catalog page:

I have read elsewhere on this board that the OD should be 7/16" though I do not understand why (besides structural considerations). So I guess none of the 5/16" OD tubing will work.


Not to get too off topic, but if we mean by resistance: a boundary interaction with the fluid and the walls moderated by viscosity, then I don't see what the outer diameter has to do with it. - edit -> The hose expands with pressure.
[end of off topic]

Item:
Chemical Resistant PVC: 5231K962 at 0.66/ft
seems like it might work but man that stuff is pricey. There is Tygon that also seems like the stuff but its really pricey.

 

[conpewter]

BetterBottle.com sold me whatever length of 1/4" ID Bev-Seal tubing for 45 cents a foot. Not a bad price really. If 1/4" ID is too big for you just buy some of the plastic inserts from McMaster to put in your dip tubes to balance the lines.

 

[kal]

You can also do what I did: Call up the manufacturer and work backwards - Ask who distributes in the US and then call them up and ask who sells...

Good luck!

Kal

 

[conpewter]

Oh you don't know how many companies I went through.... I have at least 5 I called that will gladly sell me a 500 ft roll.... but nothing less

 

[kal]

Yup. I had the same issue. 500' would last me longer than I'd ever care to imagine.

Another option is to call up some of the local places that do beer installation setups. They'll often give you scraps for free. You don't necessarily need the exact brand I mention: As long as it's poly tubing with some sort of glass-like lining meant for beverage you're all set.

Kal