Beer brewer looking to brew wine

[Doctor_Wily]

Greetings everyone,

I'm back after a long break, and back with new plans.

I've been brewing beer for about 2 years now, I've had a number of successful batches of beer. However, I've been following a strict diet that does not allow beer but would allow a glass or two of wine in an evening. Being one who enjoys brewing my first thought is "well, I need to start brewing wine". I want to tap into the knowledge of the "vets" w/ wine brewing. I would like some direction on where to begin with regard to wine brewing.

Trying to keep the list small, I want to outline some of my current equipment. I have two 6.5 gallon buckets for fermenting, I have one 6.5 gallon bucket w/ a spigot for bottling, auto siphon, 4 gal brew kettle, botttles/capper/caps for beer.

What do I need to transition into brewing some wine? I know that wine takes longer than beer to brew (at least from what i've read so far it does), so I expect it to take some time, but I'd like to have a decent bit of wine ready to drink about a year or so from now.

Thanks for any advice, sorry if the post seems kinda random, I'm tired and it's late for this house.

Cheers

 

[Yooper]

All you really need is an appropriately sized carboy. For wine kits, you need a 6 gallon carboy. Otherwise, if you're making your own wine out of fruit then you just need the correctly sized carboy for your batch size.

You almost always start the wine in a big bucket fermenter, and then transfer via siphon to the carboy and top up and airlock.

Sometimes you can borrow or rent a floor corker from a homebrew store, otherwise you'd need a corker if you want to do traditional wine bottles. You can bottle wine in beer bottles, for those that don't age long term, so you don't really need to do that right away for quicker wines.

I'd probably start with a moderately priced wine kit ($100) which makes 30 bottles (6 gallons). That means about $3 per bottle and pretty darn good wine that is ready to drink in about 3-4 months. If you find that you like winemaking, then you can do a "better" kit as well as cheaper kits to find what you like and to have some to age a little.

 

[damdaman]

Wine is actually easier to make than beer, it just needs to age longer. I didn't want to spend money on a corker/etc when I started making wine so I bottle my wines in champagne bottles with caps. All I needed to buy was a $1 bell for my capper that is slightly larger and fits the larger champagne caps. This also conveniently lets you carbonate wines since champagne bottles obviously hold pressure, although the champagne bottles are a little more expensive.

 

[solbes]

Corking is easy. Regular wine bottles take a #8 cork with the El' Cheapo plunger style corker (under $10). If you have a rubber mallet, it's pretty easy to cork them. If you wanted to age long term, especially more than 1.5-2 years, than a #9 cork and improved corker would be advised as they permeate less oxygen.

I would guess you'd want a 6 gallon carboy, and a 5 gallon carboy long term as you generally rack at least twice (6.5 gall bucket to 6 gall carboy, 6 gall to 5 gall carboy + 1.5L wine bottle). Minimizing headspace in the carboy is much more important in wine making than making beer.

Also you aren't brewing anything in making wine You easily can get a kit wine in the fermenter in under 45 minutes even in your first batch. I remember thinking, thats it?

 

[DrewschBag]

I actually started making wine about 6 months ago and love it. The biggest differences that I have noticed between beer and wine:

Wine seems harder to contaminate, but easier to oxidize. Make sure when you're bulk aging that there isn't a lot of head space in the carboy.

There is almost no work on the front end with wine versus your brew day, but you'll end up doing a bit more than just siphoning when you're getting ready to bottle wine.

I started out with a $40 kit off of Amazon that shipped free and I would definitely recommend going that route for your first batch. Read the instructions a couple of times and you'll realize just how simple the process really is.

I used my 6.5g plastic bucket from brewing. I used the same hydrometer, siphon etc. and picked up a 6 gallon carboy to age the wine in. I also picked up a $60 floor corker from the LHBS which has made bottling wine the easiest part of the whole thing.

PS - If your diet allows it, you should make some of Edwort's Apfelwein for sure.

 

[m3n00b]

I've also been thinking about getting some wine. Did I read this wrong or do you not have to boil anything?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/170/Vintners Reseve.pdf

 

[Yooper]

I've also been thinking about getting some doing wine. Did I read this wrong or do you not have to boil anything?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/170/Vintners Reseve.pdf

You don't boil anything.

 

[firerat]

I'm thinking of breaking into wine as well.

Here's a dumbish question: is it necessary to bulk age wine or can you just bottle age it? I ask because I have a bunch of fermenting buckets and 1 6 gallon better bottle.

I know head space is a big factor in bulk aging wine, so to bulk age I'd be advised to get a 5 gallon carboy. Can I just go from the 6 gallon batter bottle straight to wine bottles? I don't really want a 5 gallon carboy if I don't need it.

 

[damdaman]

I'm thinking of breaking into wine as well.

Here's a dumbish question: is it necessary to bulk age wine or can you just bottle age it? I ask because I have a bunch of fermenting buckets and 1 6 gallon better bottle.

I know head space is a big factor in bulk aging wine, so to bulk age I'd be advised to get a 5 gallon carboy. Can I just go from the 6 gallon batter bottle straight to wine bottles? I don't really want a 5 gallon carboy if I don't need it.

It's a debatable question which is better, but I think most people think bulk aging is a little better conditions will be more consistent throughout the batch. Bottle aging may cause slight differences bottle-to-bottle.

I bottle-age though, after 1-3 months in primary/secondary. I like to keep my fermenters moving on to the next batch.

 

[firerat]

Good point about each bottle being different.

Meh I'll just pony up and get another damn carboy.

 

[Doctor_Wily]

Thanks for all the response every, I appreciate the feedback and input. I didn't realize there are wines that (brew?) in shorter times than others. I was thinking of holding off for a little bit because we are hoping to move soon. But if I can find a wine that finishes quickly I wouldn't be opposed to that either for now.

 

[hio3791]

Not to hijack this thread but this seems like an appropriate place to ask. While I can brew a 10 gal batch of beer and go through it within 3 - 4 weeks, I couldn't consume 30 bottles of wine in any reasonable time. I think my wife and I average around 2 - 3 bottles a year. Are there small batch wine kits available? Also, not knowing for sure how it would turn out, I would hate to be stuck with so much wine!

 

[firerat]

Yeah there's 1 gallon kits out there.

 

[ACbrewer]

Thanks for all the response every, I appreciate the feedback and input. I didn't realize there are wines that (brew?) in shorter times than others. I was thinking of holding off for a little bit because we are hoping to move soon. But if I can find a wine that finishes quickly I wouldn't be opposed to that either for now.

Most kit wines are fairly basic concentrates, and the sweet ones are done in like 4 to 6 weeks. Look at say Island Mist series. Again, these are sweet, finish quick and are ment to be drunk quickly. OG's are typicallya bout 1.040 to 1.050 (wine recipes will usually be in the 1.080 + range)

I've had good luck with the few I've tried, but then I also like sweet wine.

 

[solbes]

Another thing with wine is that the yeast is really unpleasant tasting (at least to me). Whereas the beer yeast tastes okay to me if its a little cloudy.

So in addition to getting more consistent product with bulk aging, racking one more time to tertiary assures that the wine is completely clear of yeast and sediment. I usually think its pretty clear sitting in secondary, and then see more yeast drop out in tertiary that would otherwise be going into the bottles. I'm a relative wine noob myself, about 4 batches in so far.

 

[broadbill]

Anybody not bother with bottling and just pull it from the carboy directly? I like the idea of making wine, don't like the idea of having more bottles kicking around. Doing a pretty good job of weeding the supply after getting into kegging.

 

[broadbill]

Also; is it possible to get a dry red wine? I'm looking to replace the $8-10 bottles of Cab. Savignon I typically buy with a homemade version (I know, I have very discerning tastes!).

I guess where I'm at is if I can't make something as least as good as that, I'll continue with buying than go down the road of making it.

 

[ACbrewer]

Anybody not bother with bottling and just pull it from the carboy directly? I like the idea of making wine, don't like the idea of having more bottles kicking around. Doing a pretty good job of weeding the supply after getting into kegging.

This is how wine was done traditionally - think 1800's. It would be made and kept in barrel's for house use, the down side is oxydation, and ofcourse in the 1800's wood barrels took their share of the wine.

Servents in larger houses would take the wine and bottle it for the meal.

Fun fact in the 1906 fire of San Fransisco, the Italian part of town didn't burn, because the home owners soaked their sheets in the wine in the house (a large barrel of red and wine were on hand in many houses) and uses the went cloth to prevent the fire from gaining a hold.

So yes, this can be done, but the oxydation would be an issue.

 

[solbes]

You could probably keg it. Put it on really low pressure at (2-3 lbs) at cool or room temp. Might pour slowly, but no issues with oxidation. Personally, I like bottling wine though. Satisfying to see 25-30 full bottles after a batch.

Most $60-150 wines finish really dry (0.990 is typical). Backsweeting is a little more work, but I bottle all my reds fully dry. The Island mist kits finish sweet, but they are not what you're looking for.

 

[Yooper]

Anybody not bother with bottling and just pull it from the carboy directly? I like the idea of making wine, don't like the idea of having more bottles kicking around. Doing a pretty good job of weeding the supply after getting into kegging.

It is- but you have a major issue with oxidation that way. I'd keg it, and not put it on the gas (carbonated wine is not great in one that is supposed to be still) and just push it with enough gas to serve, probably 2 psi or so.

Also; is it possible to get a dry red wine? I'm looking to replace the $8-10 bottles of Cab. Savignon I typically buy with a homemade version (I know, I have very discerning tastes!).

I guess where I'm at is if I can't make something as least as good as that, I'll continue with buying than go down the road of making it.

My favorite wines to make are big bold reds. I made tannat/merlot as a blend about 8 years ago, and it's awesome. I love barolo and amarone, available as kits, and the "ultra premium" kits make outstanding wine.

If you want a $8 bottle of cab sav, that's easy. Most of the kits in the $90 range will fit that bill (makes 30 bottles). There are wonderful kits in the $150 range, if you want a better wine (like a $20 bottle).

 

[Doctor_Wily]

how long do the dryer wines take? I'd hate to have to move a 5-6 gallon batch of wine to a new house, lol

 

[Shooter]

I push mead with beergas at about 3psi with no problem. I'm going to do the same for my wine...once it clears. It sure didn't degas very well.

 

[Doctor_Wily]

Heres another thought I just had. I have a Mr Beer keg just hanging around collecting dust. Could I clean it up and maybe use that for small batch wines? I'd still need to get some type of glass jug or something for secondary, but could maybe start smaller batches w/ my moving concerns.

 

[DrewschBag]

I've never seen Mr Beer, but I'd say if it works for beer it will likely work for wine. Wines do take a long time so maybe waiting for a bigger batch until you've moved would be better.

You can knock out a batch of skeeterpee in 2 months though. Technically, it is wine and it tastes pretty good in the summer months.

 

[ACbrewer]

Heres another thought I just had. I have a Mr Beer keg just hanging around collecting dust. Could I clean it up and maybe use that for small batch wines? I'd still need to get some type of glass jug or something for secondary, but could maybe start smaller batches w/ my moving concerns.

that would work fine for a smaller wine, either from fruit or concentrate/juice. I don't think I've seen a small kit, but they might exists

Infact I did a peach wine from fruit in a MrBeer once. As for a 2ndary, a 1 gallon wine jug works fine. My lhbs, has 1 gallon glass, but so does my local wine store (with wine in it). Admitedly, I actually got mine off friends who drink the gallon wines.

 

[saramc]

Are there small batch wine kits available? Also, not knowing for sure how it would turn out, I would hate to be stuck with so much wine!

In the US, most kits yield 6 gallons, including most mist-style kits, and then the specialty/ dessert wine kits (think ice wine or port-style) yield 3 gallons. I know some 50+, yes more than fifty, very nice (quality & price) grape & fruit concentrates can be purchased at www.homewinery.com; a pint of their concentrate will make 1 gallon while their 64oz container will make 5 gallons, plus for a small fee they bundle with yeast, acid & enzymes. This is the place to find watermelon concentrate, for those with spoiled watermelon must look no further!! You also have www.williamsbrewing.com offering 2.5 or 5 gallon concentrates and/or kits offering petite sirah, zinfandel, merlot, malbec, pinot noir, cabernet sauvignon, chardonnay, muscat & riesling.
From websites serving those in the UK it seems that 1-2 gallon kits are readily available.

Just remember it takes that one gallon just as long to age as it does that six gallon batch. And even if you make a large batch of what you feel is a subpar wine many times we find that another year or two turns that wine around, or you can always use it to blend with another wine or learn to make vinegar or make some awesome marinades. Heck, I even make jelly out of wine (and have made many gallons of wine out of jam & jelly).

 

[broadbill]

In the US, most kits yield 6 gallons, including most mist-style kits, and then the specialty/ dessert wine kits (think ice wine or port-style) yield 3 gallons. I know some 50+, yes more than fifty, very nice (quality & price) grape & fruit concentrates can be purchased at www.homewinery.com; a pint of their concentrate will make 1 gallon while their 64oz container will make 5 gallons, plus for a small fee they bundle with yeast, acid & enzymes. This is the place to find watermelon concentrate, for those with spoiled watermelon must look no further!! You also have www.williamsbrewing.com offering 2.5 or 5 gallon concentrates and/or kits offering petite sirah, zinfandel, merlot, malbec, pinot noir, cabernet sauvignon, chardonnay, muscat & riesling.
From websites serving those in the UK it seems that 1-2 gallon kits are readily available.

Just remember it takes that one gallon just as long to age as it does that six gallon batch. And even if you make a large batch of what you feel is a subpar wine many times we find that another year or two turns that wine around, or you can always use it to blend with another wine or learn to make vinegar or make some awesome marinades. Heck, I even make jelly out of wine (and have made many gallons of wine out of jam & jelly).

So what is the difference between the concentrates that homewinery.com and Williams sells, and the kits I see at other places (for example Brewmaster's Warehouse)? There is big price differential. $30-60 versus $130-190.

What am I missing?

 

[Yooper]

So what is the difference between the concentrates that homewinery.com and Williams sells, and the kits I see at other places (for example Brewmaster's Warehouse)? There is big price differential. $30-60 versus $130-190.

What am I missing?

The canned condensed juices work fine, but the more expensive kits just have better depth and flavor. You can make wine with a $60 canned kit. You can make outstanding wine with a $190 kit.

The more expensive kits have more juice, less condensed juice concentrate, grape skins to ferment on, etc. Some kits have all canned condensed juice (like the Williams ones) and you mix it with water, while others may have 20 liters of grape juice and not so much concentrate. The flavor and quality is noticeable in the final product.

In almost all cases with wine kits (unlike beer kits!), you do get what you pay for.

 

[broadbill]

The canned condensed juices work fine, but the more expensive kits just have better depth and flavor. You can make wine with a $60 canned kit. You can make outstanding wine with a $190 kit.

The more expensive kits have more juice, less condensed juice concentrate, grape skins to ferment on, etc. Some kits have all canned condensed juice (like the Williams ones) and you mix it with water, while others may have 20 liters of grape juice and not so much concentrate. The flavor and quality is noticeable in the final product.

In almost all cases with wine kits (unlike beer kits!), you do get what you pay for.

Ah-thanks for the clarification!

 

[iamperplexed]

As a new beer brewer (just under a year) I'm intrigued but intimidated with wine making. The original gear I purchased on craigslist included an 8 gal plastic bucket as well as a few 6 gal carboys so I think I have more than enough gear to jump into wine without interrupting my beer pipeline. This thread certainly helps. Thanks to everyone for the input. I'm getting closer to diving in.

Also, here's a little homework for anyone who is interested. https://www.fhsteinbart.com/products/index.php is my local brew shop. Can anyone recommend a kit from their wine kit list? The girlfriend and I generally stick to Cab Sav and Pinot Noir when we buy wine but I'm open to any suggestions.

Thanks!

Edit: I'm not opposed to shopping elsewhere but I do prefer to skip the shipping and keep it local whenever I can.

 

[DoctorCAD]

As has been stated a few times in this thread, with wine kits you do get what you pay for.

For your first attempt, stick with a middle of the road priced Pino or Cab and you will be fine.

 

[podz]

Good point about each bottle being different.

Meh I'll just pony up and get another damn carboy.

I have come to the conclusion that if you are a home brewer / winemaker and you don't have at least 10 big carboys then you ain't yet finished shopping.