BCS with Stout

[sandyeggoxj]

I am going to order my BCS this week. I am looking at a 462. What else do I need to make sure I remember? The kettles have thermowells installed already. Does that mean I can just use straight temp sensors? I was thinking about getting a few of these: http://www.brewershardware.com/6-Temperature-Sensor-for-BCS-460.html .

I am going to buy the element mounts from brewhardware so I don't need to worry about those right now.

My main concern is making sure that I have enough din rail and terminal blocks and so forth. I am planning on stuffing this all inside of a 16x16x8 enclosure. It will be a 50-amp setup. I am planning on using relays on each hot to the elements instead of a contactor/relay combo.

I am new to this eHerms thing and hope that I can get it right the first time. I know it will be inevitable but I am afraid of multiple orders because I keep forgetting small items.

 

[crane]

The only real way to plan all this out and not forget anything is to have a wiring diagram and a plumbing diagram. I searched around and found a few wiring diagrams of PJ's for BCS systems and compared them to the ebrewsupply.com diagrams. I found one that was closest to what I wanted and then made some modifications. Since everyone's preference is so different and with what little information you gave us we can't just chime in and say "don't forget the flux capacitor". To do this right without completely copying someone else's build requires quite a bit of planning.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

That makes sense. I have seen some diagrams close, but nothing that I want to do exactly. I guess I'll just keep researching.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Has anybody used Stout Kettles in the larger variety? Mine are 30-Gallon. How deep are the thermowells? I want to make sure I order the right lenth temp probes.

Thanks.

 

[PLOVE]

Just an FYI. If you're purchasing standard BCS temperature sensors from brewer's hardware, you don't need thermowells. Either purchase the sensors prebuilt with the 1/2" NPT fittings or buy them along with the 1/4" compression x 1/2" MNPT bored fitting.

I e-mailed BH about whether I need a thermowell with this configuration and they said absolutely not.

Might be obvious - might not.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Just an FYI. If you're purchasing standard BCS temperature sensors from brewer's hardware, you don't need thermowells. Either purchase the sensors prebuilt with the 1/2" NPT fittings or buy them along with the 1/4" compression x 1/2" MNPT bored fitting.

I e-mailed BH about whether I need a thermowell with this configuration and they said absolutely not.

Might be obvious - might not.

I get that. The kettles have thermowells welded in but I am just unclear on the the way they are welded or how deep they are. I guess I'll just have to guess.

 

[PLOVE]

Got it - thermowells already installed. My bad. Are they threaded? If not, how will you keep the sensor in the well?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Great questions! I don't know. Magic?

 

[snackson]

Looking at the pictures of the thermowell for the 40 gallon kettle on their website, it looks like it is 1/2" NPT with thermometer threaded in . I looked at the 1 barrel one first and that one had a 1.5" tri clover.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Well, I called them and the response I got was odd. It is a 1/2" NPT with tri-clover because everything is tri-clover. WTF? I'm not an idiot but why is this so f'in confusing?

 

[crane]

Well, I called them and the response I got was odd. It is a 1/2" NPT with tri-clover because everything is tri-clover. WTF? I'm not an idiot but why is this so f'in confusing?

Prior to buying their rims tube I emailed with a few questions and I got similar vague responses. It took several rounds of emails to get my questions answered. The guy came across as an arrogant A-hole. Guess customer service isn't there strong suite.

 

[MaverickBrew]

SP8X150TW Thermowell, 1.5" TC x 6" long stem

Found this on their site hope it helps

http://conical-fermenter.com/Thermowell-TriClamp.html

and for the ones that are welded in

This looks to be about 4"

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Crane-

CS is good. Sometimes the office folks can't answer all the questions but if they don't answer the phone they call back promptly. Emails are also quick. And they answer all of my million questions. So I cannot say anything bad at all about them. Now, once I have the products in my hands I will give a little feedback on that side of things.

Maverick-

This is what I ordered:

Boil Kettle:
BK30TW-TI-SG-EL1. (2240). 30 Gal. Brew Kettle with (1) 1.5in. TC Port for electric element w/1in. NPS adapter, Thermowell, Tangential Inlet, Sight Glass, (2)3/4in. valves, (2) 1/2in. hose barbs, clamps/gaskets

HLT
HL30TW-RHC-SG-EL1-XP. (Custom). 30 Gal. Hot Liquor Tank with Thermowell, RAISED HERMS Coil, Sight Glass,(1) Element Port with 1" NSP adapter, (1) Upper Port, (1)3/4in. Valve, (3) 1/2in. Hose Barbs, clamps/gaskets

MLT
MT30TW-RF-BO (476). 115L Mash Tun with Bottom Outlet, Thermowell, Recirculation Fitting, (1)19mm Valve, (2) 1/2in. Hose Barbs, Clamps/Gaskets

Sparge Arm
SP12SA. (720). Sparge Arm, 12in. long, with 2 clamps/gaskets, (1) 1.5in. end cap


It doesn't really tell me what style the thermowell is. But from the pictures you have it looks like I will need a compression fitting with 1/2" npt male threads to keep the temperature probe in place during brewing.

Also, it looks like I am getting some of these with the order: http://conical-fermenter.com/1.5-TC-x-1-NPS-Adapter-for-electric-heating-elements..html

 

[PLOVE]

What this set you back if you don't mind me asking?

Definitely post pics when the tanks arrive. Jealous

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[sandyeggoxj]

$2400 with freight. Should end up being around $4k with the bcs panel and stand as well. I am doing it all myself, including a brew stand. I can't decide if I want to fork out the extra cash right now for a stainless stand.

 

[MaverickBrew]

So the kettle should be this one

They all look like the use a 2-4" welded thermowell with a 1/2" npt fitting on the outside of the kettle. so depending on the temp probe you purchase you may or may not need the compression fittings.

something like this would work perfect, of course if the thermowell is in front like this one it might get in the way of the valve.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Hmmm... It looks like I will have to have a compression fitting of some kind. I will just have to wait because Stout didn't really have a good answer as to what they were preparing to ship to me. Which reminds me, why haven't they shipped yet?

 

[MaverickBrew]

I am almost 100% sure that they do not make these. These are ordered from china and then shipped

I was looking at buying some from here...Look familiar?

I could be wrong. Either way I do like them.


I found them here

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Brite-wine-tanks-50L-200L_512308566.html

 

[sandyeggoxj]

You are correct. I like them so far. We will see after a couple brews. There aren't too many choices for this level of homebrew. I hate weldless fittings or threads. That knocks most homebrew stuff out of the running.

 

[PLOVE]

I can't decide if u want to fork out the extra cash right now for a stainless stand.

My advice. Wait until you have a bunch of brews under your belt. Early on, I need something to brew on, so I grabbed an old table screwed on my pumps, dropped the Sankes on top, and I've never looked back. I've probably tried 5 different configurations and placements for the kettles, control panel, computer. Eventually I'll settle on an arrangement and build a proper stand, but for now I'm still tweaking. . . .

 

[sandyeggoxj]

From what I have heard, or rather read somewhere on HBT recently, Stout's distributor in China has started selling the big stuff directly to accounts in the US. They have a remarkably inexpensive 10-bbl systems. There are other people that have American offices to resell Made in China stuff. Basically you are paying for the middle-man to interface with the chinese mfg to make sure you get what you want without having to learn mandarin.

On another note... Just got a tracking number. Estimated day of celebration: Tuesday!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

My advice. Wait until you have a bunch of brews under your belt. Early on, I need something to brew on, so I grabbed an old table screwed on my pumps, dropped the Sankes on top, and I've never looked back. I've probably tried 5 different configurations and placements for the kettles, control panel, computer. Eventually I'll settle on an arrangement and build a proper stand, but for now I'm still tweaking. . . .

Good call. I was actually just thinking about getting a 6' SS prep table off CL and just using that. I could sell it for what I pay for it later on if I find that I want to go a different route.

 

[HerkDriver]

Alright, kindred spirit!

I also just placed an order for a similar setup, albeit with a few changes. I went with the 20gal size and changed the element ports to 2" with Stout. Unfortunately this has set my order back to mid-July. I am curious to see what the cost to change the thermowells to 1.5" TC fittings vice the 1/2" NPT welded version.

I was thinking about submitting the order for the eBrewSupply BCS-462 50a kit this week. It'll give me something to piece together while I wait for the kettles... I'll also have time to scour the local area for that 6' SS table.

 

[Roadie]

I'm sure you will like the Stout kettles. I brewed on my new Stout system last weekend for the first time. I bought the 20g kettles so I could do a 5g batch but it's still not that easy as anything less than 1.5qt/lb of liquor and I don't hit the temp sensor as that thermowell is about an inch higher than the thermowells in the other 2 kettles. Kind of a pisser if you want a thick mash but we're dealing with it. Otherwise they have a lot of bling and work as you would expect them to.

 

[HerkDriver]

Glad to hear it Roadie. Any changes you would have made on your setup from Stout?

 

[Roadie]

Glad to hear it Roadie. Any changes you would have made on your setup from Stout?

Yes. Mash tun temp probe lower. Shorter tc couplings for the electric elements. Maybe aftermarket HERMS coil. I did have the thermometer/thermowell in the front deleted and happy I did.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[oakbarn]

stout has two types of thermowells. One is welded in with a 1/2 inch npt. The other type is one that has a TC fitting with the thermowell with its own TC fitting. It also has a 1/2 npt

Neither need liquid tight


The TC type are better as you may buy sensors that are TC as well. Some of the sensors sold by brewers hardware will NOT fit in either Thermowell!!! If you have the TC type thermowell you can order the TC sensor and not worry about it fitting in the thermowell as it is it's own thermowekl. If early enough in the build from stout, ask for TC type thermowells as they offer the most options


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[sandyeggoxj]

Too late! They are sitting in my living room. I ended up with the welded in npt thermowells. Brewers hardware has a 2" probe with 1/2" npt on it. That is what I was going to order tomorrow.

 

[oakbarn]

Wait. I have some but I do not think they will fit. I will be home late tonight. To see if they will. I think the diameter is too large


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[sandyeggoxj]

Sounds good. Let me know.

 

[oakbarn]

They fit fine. I would, however, make sure that you order the probes with M12 QDs. There is not an option listed but send the contact form That you want them with the M12 QDs unless you will "never" take them out. Hard to clean without removing the probe. We have a Temp Probe in the HLT, 2 in the MLT and also read out the Input to the MLT from the HERMS as well as the OUTPUT from the MLT. There are 2 thermowells in the MLT (Welded type) and we use Instrument "Tee" with TC Probes. We also have a Ball valve on the INPUT of the MLT as you can siphon back into your HERMS!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Do you have a picture of the m12 discos? Does it disconnect at the probe itself? I was going to use xlr at the panel but I didn't think about the probe part. Hmm...

 

[oakbarn]

I do not but the look like a standard microphone jack or what you plug into an Iphone for headsets maybe bigger. I contacted brewers hardware and their sensors have a 1 foot pigtail off the sensor to the M12

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Well I ordered the m12 probes. Also I talked to them on the phone and they reminded me to get the male m12 and wire. It doesn't come with that... just a heads up. They are building the bcs this week. Should have it early next I hope.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

M12 QD probes showed up. Here is what they look like in case anyone else was wondering. They are very slick and I am impressed.

 

[PLOVE]

Nice looking probes. I'm kind of annoyed with my mic jack connectors - not very "quick". Might be worth adding a set of m12 QDs, so I can disconnect at my vessels.

Cool
P

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I am impressed. I wish I would have gone with these at my panel too. I used xlr at the panel.

 

[muhteeus]

Any link on those probes? They look more turn-key than the auber ones. They also use amphenol connectors (which are not those microphone connectors)

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I'll get some when I get back home in a bit. Need to jump in the computer and look it up.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Any link on those probes? They look more turn-key than the auber ones. They also use amphenol connectors (which are not those microphone connectors)

Here is what I bought:

http://www.brewershardware.com/1-2-MPT-2-long-BCS-460-462-Temperature-Sensor-TPBCSTF1202-M12.html

http://www.brewershardware.com/CABM12M3.html

I bought the bare end because I was planning on XLR into the panel. Now that I see the m12 I wish I would have gone that route for all of them. The XLR is okay but the m12 is way better!