Bar Build Part 2: 8-tap Through-the-Wall Keezer

[max384]

This is the second part of my bar build. The actual building of the bar can be found here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596537

My bar is in the finished portion of my basement. On the other side of the wall is the unfinished part of my basement, which is where the keezer will be, and the faucets will be through the wall.

The faucets:

The other side of the wall

I am using a 20 cubic foot chest freezer that I will be putting a 10" collar on. I will then be using PVC tubing to connect the lines to a box I'm building around the shanks. I will be using both water and air cooling to ensure cool lines and clean first pours.

The first thing to do was to make space for the box I'm building around the back of the shanks.

And then build the box. The box was insulated with 1" foam board insulation. I used both liquid nails and staples to hold it together. I cut out two holes for the 3" PVC pipes that are going to house the beer lines and cooling lines.

I also put a thin piece of plywood over the foam board insulation so that I could adequately tighten the shank nuts.

I then taped over everything with foil tape

I then added a door with more foam board insulation, and then covered that with the foil tape as well.

The PVC pipes and signage were added

 

[max384]

Next I started on building the collar for the keezer.

This chest freezer has a light and controls on the lid, which means there is a wire leading to the lid that needs to be cut and lengthened.

The lid was removed, and the surface where the collar would be attached was prepped.

The collar was then built with 2x10s and holes for the PVC pipes were drilled.

Pardon the mess. I'm usually much more organized...

The foam board insulation was attached

The collar was then attached to the freezer with liquid nails, and the spaces were filled in with Good Stuff caulking.

After allowing it to set and dry, the lid was reattached.

This is where I'm currently at. I'm working a lot this week, but I'm hoping to squeeze some time in to get this done this week. We'll see.

 

[ITV]

I enjoyed part 1, looking forward to see the progress of part 2.

That must be close to a full time job to keep 8 home brews on tap.

 

[max384]

I enjoyed part 1, looking forward to see the progress of part 2.

That must be close to a full time job to keep 8 home brews on tap.

The way I see it, is that it is less work to keep more beers on tap. I'll be drinking the same amount whether I have one tap or 8... I just won't be changing out kegs as often!

 

[coypoo]

The initial amount of "work" to get 8 on tap may be a lot, but after that it won't be much to keep it filled

 

[John Paul Stoddard]

I agree

Might as well build in more Taps. Several reasons come to mind right of the top of my head

While You may not have 8 Beers on Tap at all times you can add a fresh Keg or two before a Keg Blows.

If you do start brewing more Often or brewing smaller batches of Beer for more Variety on Tap at all times you are already set to go.

And You have Guest Taps Available for Gatherings.

Easier to do it from the start then come back in later to try and redo.

 

[RichBrewer]

I am completely jealous! You are doing what I have dreamed about for years.

 

[John Paul Stoddard]

The initial amount of "work" to get 8 on tap may be a lot, but after that it won't be much to keep it filled

Not really...especially if you have several BrewBuddies


Might be surprised how fast those 8 Taps will be filled and have extras ready to go

 

[Biscuits]

Sub'd....loved Part 1...looking forward to Part 2

 

[wyowolf]

Wow, just what I was thinking of doing in my basement bar, thank you!!
Nice to see another Dillon fan

 

[inhousebrew]

Love watching this seeing that I have a half unfinished basement and briefly thought of building something similar (albeit much simpler). Can't wait to see the finished product

 

[max384]

Thanks for following along everyone. I haven't gotten a thing done this week on account of my three month old coming down with a virus and being very cranky. I work all weekend. I'm going to be able to get a little something done this week...

Wow, just what I was thinking of doing in my basement bar, thank you!!
Nice to see another Dillon fan

Yes sir! Once you go blue you'll never go back!

 

[irtsy]

Keep up the great work, looks amazing so far, especially with what you've gotten done while balancing it with a full time job. Your workshop looks like a homebrewer's dream, there's plenty of room to make all sorts of mistakes!

Do you already own all 8 kegs, or are you still piecing stuff together? What do you think your budget was for the entire keezer project, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Weezy]

Love it

 

[max384]

Keep up the great work, looks amazing so far, especially with what you've gotten done while balancing it with a full time job. Your workshop looks like a homebrewer's dream, there's plenty of room to make all sorts of mistakes!

Do you already own all 8 kegs, or are you still piecing stuff together? What do you think your budget was for the entire keezer project, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks! I've gotten nothing else done on the keezer project yet, as I worked about 90 hours last week unfortunately. I'm hoping to get something done this weekend, since I have off. My workshop is really cluttered at the moment, and is driving me nuts. I can't wait to finish this project so that I can have my workshop back!

I have 10 ball locks and 2 converted pin locks. I'm upgrading from a 4 tap kegerator, and I knew that I was going to upgrade for the last couple of years, so I've been buying a keg here and there whenever a deal comes up on my local Craigslist.

(my old kegerator, at my old house)

So far, my budget has been about $4000 for the bar.

For the keezer... Let me see.
Chest freezer - $110 (score off CL)
Taps and shanks - $300 (including already having some of the shanks and hardware
Tubing - $80
8-way gas manifold - $100
Boards, liquid nails, insulation, pipes, etc. - $100
USB fans, water pump, copper tubing - $100

So, about $800, give or take. If you include the CO2 and kegs, which I already had, it would be $1400 in total. I'm probably not thinking about a few things, so I could probably safely add another hundred or two.

 

[wyowolf]

Very nice set up... I think I will use something like this for my basement as well..

How do you like your casefeeder for you 550?

Thanks! I've gotten nothing else done on the keezer project yet, as I worked about 90 hours last week unfortunately. I'm hoping to get something done this weekend, since I have off. My workshop is really cluttered at the moment, and is driving me nuts. I can't wait to finish this project so that I can have my workshop back!

I have 10 ball locks and 2 converted pin locks. I'm upgrading from a 4 tap kegerator, and I knew that I was going to upgrade for the last couple of years, so I've been buying a keg here and there whenever a deal comes up on my local Craigslist.

(my old kegerator, at my old house)

So far, my budget has been about $4000 for the bar.

For the keezer... Let me see.
Chest freezer - $110 (score off CL)
Taps and shanks - $300 (including already having some of the shanks and hardware
Tubing - $80
8-way gas manifold - $100
Boards, liquid nails, insulation, pipes, etc. - $100
USB fans, water pump, copper tubing - $100

So, about $800, give or take. If you include the CO2 and kegs, which I already had, it would be $1400 in total. I'm probably not thinking about a few things, so I could probably safely add another hundred or two.

 

[max384]

Very nice set up... I think I will use something like this for my basement as well..

How do you like your casefeeder for you 550?

I love the case feeder. It speeds up production by a substantial amount, and very rarely jams. It's actually a 650 though, and I'm not sure if the feeders ate different between the 550 and 650.

 

[wyowolf]

I love the case feeder. It speeds up production by a substantial amount, and very rarely jams. It's actually a 650 though, and I'm not sure if the feeders ate different between the 550 and 650.

Oh ok, I didnt realize it was the 650. Nice... I dont have a casefeeder but am thinking of getting one...

 

[max384]

Oh ok, I didnt realize it was the 650. Nice... I dont have a casefeeder but am thinking of getting one...

You won't regret it, I promise!

 

[irtsy]

So, about $800, give or take. If you include the CO2 and kegs, which I already had, it would be $1400 in total. I'm probably not thinking about a few things, so I could probably safely add another hundred or two.

That's what I had ballparked in my mind while going through the thread too, give or take a couple hundred. I know how these projects can snowball and get semi-out of hand. It looks like you're keeping it well under control so far.

Did you have/are you worried about any issues with gas or pressure? I know it's not a super long distance your beer will be traveling, but is the pressure going to change drastically for you at all from originally the keezer handles to the bar length taps? What about temperature of the beers? Are you going to take extra steps to cool the lines?

Pardon me if some of these questions are no-brainers, I'm not new to making beer, just making it travel through tubes over distance.

 

[max384]

That's what I had ballparked in my mind while going through the thread too, give or take a couple hundred. I know how these projects can snowball and get semi-out of hand. It looks like you're keeping it well under control so far.

Did you have/are you worried about any issues with gas or pressure? I know it's not a super long distance your beer will be traveling, but is the pressure going to change drastically for you at all from originally the keezer handles to the bar length taps? What about temperature of the beers? Are you going to take extra steps to cool the lines?

Pardon me if some of these questions are no-brainers, I'm not new to making beer, just making it travel through tubes over distance.

Pressure shouldn't change, regardless of the line length. It's all one big closed system, so there is theoretically the same gas pressure being exerted at the end of the lines as there is in the keg. Regardless, I use 10 foot 3/16" lines, so the line length will be the same as in my old kegerator.

I am taking extra steps to cool the lines, as you'll see in my update shortly. I am going to liquid and air cool the lines. I am doing this by keeping a five gallon bucket of water in the keezer and circulating the liquid around the shanks with copper tubing with a small pond pump. In addition, I put in small computer fans at the entrance to the tubes that lead to my shank box. One blows air into the one tube, and the other pulls air from the other, to keep good circulation. I also have two larger computer fans in the main keezer to keep air flowing. One thing I learned from my last kegerator project is that good air flow is the key to keeping even temps throughout the keezer.

 

[max384]

Okay, finally an update!

I had the weekend off, so I got a little bit of work done. Unfortunately my "off" weekend was not actually off. I had a pretty sizable honey-do list from the wife, and I have my two teenager boys running around, and my four month old daughter to contend with. And my wife works as well, so free time is not something we have a plethora of, unfortunately.

Anywho, the first thing I did was bend my liquid cooled copper tubing into place. Even with a pipe bender, I way underestimated how much of a giant pain in the @ass this was going to be. It looks like crap, but hopefully it functions well. It unfortunately doesn't really make contact with the shanks like I had wanted it to. I'm hoping this won't be too much of an issue, but if it doesn't cool well, I think this is one part of the project I may pay someone to do, as I don't want to continually screw up bending the expensive copper pipe, when I can pay someone to do a better job for less than the cost of screwing up multiple times. But, if it works well, than I don't care about how it looks at all!

Up next was seeing how the kegs fit. I have ten kegs, which comfortably fit inside. I can fit a maximum of 14 kegs inside if I want to, but the plan is to keep the 8 kegs on tap, plus 2-3 carbing, and still have room for canned/bottled soda and beer that don't fit in the mini fridge in the basement.

I also mounted the main gas manifold, temp controller, four fans, the CO2 tank, and bucket for liquid cooling.

 

[max384]

I got a little bit more done yesterday.

I extended the wiring to the keezer lid.

I installed all of the gas lines off of the main gas manifold.

I installed the water cooling assembly and hooked it up to the pond pump. It works well with no leaks.

I test fitted the keezer in place to get a general idea of how well it will work. There are some gaps between the pipes and the keezer and the insulation is not in yet, so I don't expect it to work perfectly yet. But, when I woke up this morning, the main keezer was at 37.5 F (set at 38 F), and the shank enclosure felt cold. There was also surprisingly good airflow, so I'm feeling fairly confident that this setup will maintain temps pretty well. I will check the temp tonight to see if it's holding.

What I have left to do:
Do the final fitting of the pipes to the keezer
Insulate pipes
Install beverage lines
Install secondary gas manifold for higher pressure soda kegs
Finish my tap handles

And I think that's about it. I have four beers that are ready to keg, and one more in the pipeline. Looks like I need to do some brewing!

 

[zpack]

Thanks for costing me money!!

I just finished my keezer build but didn't really like the "fit" in my bar I was in the process of building, so the day after I filled my keezer with kegs I told me wife "hey I am redoing my kegerator" she wasn't happy but my bar is all I asked for when we built this house so she is going along with it.

My thread I posted just days before this thread lol

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=598875

 

[max384]

I got a bit more done today. I got the beverage lines in and the pipes leading to the "beer cave" insulated. I installed the second gas manifold for the soda as well.

The beer cave is running about 5-6 degrees warmer than the main keezer. I'm hoping this will be good enough to avoid first pour foaming issues. We'll see...

 

[TheBeerGuy]

@max384 This is an awesome build and I am jealous. I live down in Allentown, PA and I would like to help you break in the new system when it's all done

 

[dukduk]

Having both fans set perpendicular might be recirculating just the warmer air from the top of the keezer. Have you considered pointing the cave's exhaust fan down and at an angle away from the intake (or use a deflector) to stir up the colder air from the bottom?

 

[dmoser09]

Off topic but your ammo/reloading shelf(ves) brought a single tear of joy to my eye

 

[Bob750]

Impressive! Now I need to buy a house, so I build something like this!

 

[schmittychris]

There isn't a single part of this thread including the reloading bench that I'm not jealous of! Nice build

 

[Deckers_Beers]

Damn, props to you, my friend! It all looks amazing!

 

[snarlywino]

Off topic but your ammo/reloading shelf(ves) brought a single tear of joy to my eye

I'm with dmoser09, I can't decide if I am more impressed with your bar build or your ammo collection.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

One word of warning - since you're not using a regulator for each keg, you will need to do the following when you add a keg if they are quite full, even with a gas-in short stem:

1) Shut off all 8 valves
2) Put new keg in place, burp the keg down to almost 0 PSI
3) Attach new keg to gas line
4) Turn on gas line on new keg, and let it pressurize
5) Reopen the other 7 valves.

HTSC

 

[freisste]

Anywho, the first thing I did was bend my liquid cooled copper tubing into place. Even with a pipe bender, I way underestimated how much of a giant pain in the @ass this was going to be. It looks like crap, but hopefully it functions well. It unfortunately doesn't really make contact with the shanks like I had wanted it to. I'm hoping this won't be too much of an issue, but if it doesn't cool well, I think this is one part of the project I may pay someone to do, as I don't want to continually screw up bending the expensive copper pipe, when I can pay someone to do a better job for less than the cost of screwing up multiple times. But, if it works well, than I don't care about how it looks at all!

If you need better conduction from the taps to the cooled tubing, considering making "bridges" of aluminum foil. Aluminum is a stellar heat conductor and will pull heat out of the taps to the liquid heat-sink pretty well, I would imagine. The shorter, the better, of course.

Post again if you run into issues. (It will help me avoid pitfalls when I take on a project like this...)

Thanks for the thread!

 

[Sidman]

One word of warning - since you're not using a regulator for each keg, you will need to do the following when you add a keg if they are quite full, even with a gas-in short stem:

1) Shut off all 8 valves
2) Put new keg in place, burp the keg down to almost 0 PSI
3) Attach new keg to gas line
4) Turn on gas line on new keg, and let it pressurize
5) Reopen the other 7 valves.

HTSC

Interesting. Is that to keep pressure balanced for each keg? If you don't do that will you see higher pressures in existing kegs?

 

[benbarts]

Cooling the lines to the wall is neat and all, but I think a bit overkill. I run my bev tubing inside copper plumbing to the shank, and then the other end into my kegerator coiled with an extra foot. I then wrap insulation around the copper tubing between kegerator and wall. The copper tubing inside the kegerator conducts the cold all the way to the shank, and presto, chilled lines with no fan or cooling needed.

 

[MikeMMM]

One word of warning - since you're not using a regulator for each keg, you will need to do the following when you add a keg if they are quite full, even with a gas-in short stem:

1) Shut off all 8 valves
2) Put new keg in place, burp the keg down to almost 0 PSI
3) Attach new keg to gas line
4) Turn on gas line on new keg, and let it pressurize
5) Reopen the other 7 valves.

HTSC

This is not true. I have 8 taps run off one regulator with a manifold similar to the OP's. All kegs and lines will keep equilibrium. I have numerous friends with 6-8 taps and none of them do these steps.

 

[crane]

One word of warning - since you're not using a regulator for each keg, you will need to do the following when you add a keg if they are quite full, even with a gas-in short stem:

1) Shut off all 8 valves
2) Put new keg in place, burp the keg down to almost 0 PSI
3) Attach new keg to gas line
4) Turn on gas line on new keg, and let it pressurize
5) Reopen the other 7 valves.

HTSC

Most valves on distribution blocks are a combo check valve and ball valve in one. This would prevent back pressure from one keg moving CO2 and/or beer to other kegs.

I used a 4 way distribution block like that without any such problems and I definitely hooked up fresh kegs that were at a higher pressure with no ill effects.

You should always have check valves installed on each hose run to prevent such issues.

 

[Kcmfg]

Awesome build! It looks like we have almost the same chest freezer, similar to my build but I went the easy route with the taps..

 

[max384]

@max384 This is an awesome build and I am jealous. I live down in Allentown, PA and I would like to help you break in the new system when it's all done

Sure. Let me just tell my wife that a random internet dude is coming over!

Having both fans set perpendicular might be recirculating just the warmer air from the top of the keezer. Have you considered pointing the cave's exhaust fan down and at an angle away from the intake (or use a deflector) to stir up the colder air from the bottom?

Yep! I already did that exact thing yesterday after checking the temp at various places in the keezer (after the pics, obviously). Much more even temperature distribution now.

Off topic but your ammo/reloading shelf(ves) brought a single tear of joy to my eye

Thanks!