Titan88
Creator of MashLab Brewing Software
So I used grape juice concentrate instead of white raisins. Turned out great! To anyone that goes with that option, I'd recommend cutting back on the acid blend. Cheers!
Banana Wine
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timcadieux
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apparently placing them in a freezer will hasten the overripening.
timcadieux
Well-Known Member
I'm no expert but I know that somewhere in this thread someone asked that question and the response was 'the more ripe the fruit, the higher the sugar content'.
Yes I already know that to be true. Just wondering if it affects the flavor at all though, if not, I could just brew away then.
If my college days serve me correctly, the ripening process is essentially the starches breaking down into sugars so yes there should be more available sugar with super ripe black bananas. I'm not 100% sure that freezing has the same impact although I do appreciate it blackens the banana in the same manner. I will try and do a bit of reading to find out.
Titan88
Creator of MashLab Brewing Software
Get a paper bag and toss them in and leave them for a few days
plastic trash bag works well as it contains the ethylene gas released from the bananas as they ripen and the gas speeds further ripening. Putting them somewhere warm also helps speed ripening as it raises the activity level of the enzymes in the bananas.
If you have ever tasted a brown and black banana, then you know that there is much more flavor in a super ripe banana than a bright yellow one. That is because the strongly flavored esters that have the characteristic banana flavor develop during the late stages of ripening. If you want strong banana flavor, then use OLD bananas, otherwise, you will get a bland wine.
BE PATIENT, the older the bananas, the better. Freezing speeds the process of aging as it breaks down cell walls, making sugars more available, but I think it is best to freeze bananas only once they are fully ripened so that you are sure to get the maximum conversion of starches to sugars. The bananas I have used are mushy and partially liquefied after I take them from the freezer and I have had excellent mashing efficiency as a result.
If you have ever tasted a brown and black banana, then you know that there is much more flavor in a super ripe banana than a bright yellow one. That is because the strongly flavored esters that have the characteristic banana flavor develop during the late stages of ripening. If you want strong banana flavor, then use OLD bananas, otherwise, you will get a bland wine.
BE PATIENT, the older the bananas, the better. Freezing speeds the process of aging as it breaks down cell walls, making sugars more available, but I think it is best to freeze bananas only once they are fully ripened so that you are sure to get the maximum conversion of starches to sugars. The bananas I have used are mushy and partially liquefied after I take them from the freezer and I have had excellent mashing efficiency as a result.
I have one more question about this too. What is the purpose of stirring daily, since the fruit is not in the fermenter? I understand doing this when you put the actual fruit in the fermenter to help them break down more. But since this is in a strainer bag and not put in the fermenter, is that necessary?
Titan88
Creator of MashLab Brewing Software
Looks great even with white grape concentrate vice white raisins!
OP
OP
It still tends to form a cap, and stirring breaks that up as well as gives the wine needed oxygen and degasses some of the c02, which is poisonous to yeast.
Ok, thank you.
I made up a 6 gallon batch yesterday. I wish I would have used my Keggle BK on a propane burner, instead of my 7.5 gallon pot on the stove, that was MAXED out. Also, I was so hurried at the end I forgot to take a OG, oh well.
I also pitched the yeast, wasn't paying attention I was so hurried, when it was a little warm still in the high 80's. This morning it's down to around 73 and chugging away nicely. I'll open it tomorrow and give it a stir.
I also pitched the yeast, wasn't paying attention I was so hurried, when it was a little warm still in the high 80's. This morning it's down to around 73 and chugging away nicely. I'll open it tomorrow and give it a stir.
Makes perfect sense to me. Ferment it out in the primary with the full mass of yeast to make sure you get full attenuation, then rack to secondary for clarification and to remove any particles that might otherwise get sucked into your bottling bucket. You will get a cleaner tasting beer as the large yeast mass will be better at re-absorbing DMS and other secondary metabolites. Secondary is also a good time to add oak, vanilla, rum, etc as there will be less yeast to conflict with these flavors when you are determining the dosing.
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I think it depends on what type of container you're using for primary. If you're following the recipe, you probably are using an open container so you can stir daily, so you want to rack it to secondary while it's still throwing off carbon dioxide, around 1.01-1.02 SG. I used a carboy with lots of headspace due to the number of fruit flies at the time, and it was a PITA. I don't think there's much risk of it stalling, generally you want to get wine off the gross lees sooner than later.
I am using a 6 gallon bucket with a lid and airlock. Over the 7 days, I opened it up 4 times to stir and take a hydrometer reading. On day 6(two days ago) it was at 1.040. Today is day 8. I'm assuming it has dropped even more with gravity. Since you think I should get it off lees sooner than later, I'll rack it into secondary today or tomorrow then. Thanks.
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Let me qualify my input by saying I've only been doing this since last august, and my banana wine isn't in bottles yet. So take it for what it's worth! Just got a preferred customer card at my LHBS last night, though, so that has to count for something, right?
Swirling carboys several times daily to de-gas and rouse yeast in banana wine and strong beers (imperial stout, barley wine, etc) has worked well for me. I would be nervous about introducing airborne bacteria when removing the lid from a bucket fermenter to stir it with a spoon. Stirring may be more effective than swirling, but swirling doesn't require any sanitation steps and can be accomplished in less than a minute, so it is easy to do multiple times a day.
I purge my secondary carboy with CO2 prior to racking so that I can rack beer/wine over well after yeast activity has stopped and not worry about oxidation. If CO2 is not available, be sure to rack into a carboy with minimal headspace and run your tubing to the bottom of the secondary when racking to avoid splashing.
I purge my secondary carboy with CO2 prior to racking so that I can rack beer/wine over well after yeast activity has stopped and not worry about oxidation. If CO2 is not available, be sure to rack into a carboy with minimal headspace and run your tubing to the bottom of the secondary when racking to avoid splashing.
LoneTreeFarms
Well-Known Member
Just finally put this one together. Scaled it up to 6 gallons. Managed to mess up getting paint strainer sacks without draw strings. Needless to say I feel like I've been workin out all afternoon. Here's to hoping its worth the wait in a year. My 5 year old thinks it looks gross but smells derlicious
Did you top off with water when you added the raisins and then let if fully ferment out? If so, then no I wouldn't top off.
No, the raisins took up enough room that I didn't need to top up.
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I have a bunch of half-eaten bananas I've frozen because my two toddler nephews only eat about half of one and won't take a half-banana to begin. So though I know its frugal with the price of bananas, I think I may have about 5-6 lbs of peeled banana fragments in the freezer.
I've been home brewing since 2008, have made fruit "ripple" wines with added sugar out of nearly every kind of fruit, excepting oranges and bananas. Grapes, Cherries (White and Black), Apples, Pears, Apricot, Peach, Cactus Fruit Mead with Lime and Ginger, Plum, and now lovingly brewing a 3-gallon batch of Honduran "Wado" (Pineapple) with wild blackberries. I've also managed several Wildberry wines, including vine berries, bush berries, elderberries, and strawberries. Flower wines such as Dandelion, Wild Rose petals and hips, Berry Blossoms, and even a Lavender wine as a tonic. I've even used Sweet Potatoes and Yams for a light sweet vodka-like liquor (not distilled). I'm fond of combined brews, my favorite thus far was the Mead above (my very first! 2 years of waiting for a 1 gallon batch! Liquid Inspiration!) and my most recent, Apple and Pear with Lime peel (I'll post the recipe sometime).
But despite their availability I've never done the bananas.
I'm wondering a few things about this wine. Is it necessary to keep the skins on and why? What's the flavour like? If I used just the fruit, not the peel, would you think leaving the pulp in during the fermentation would be okay? I'm sure I'll do it as I usually do, keeping the fruit in during the full fermentation, but please could you answer all the same?
The reason I've not tried this idea before (I was thinking for a while of attempting it, before I did my Google Search tonight) because I'm actually allergic to raw bananas. For some reason there's a type of potassium that sloughs off or becomes inactive when bananas are cooked or frozen. Its that type of potassium I'm allergic to, makes me have a very upset tummy. So now that I have frozen nanners at my disposal, they're the ones I'll use. I didn't want to get sick drinking a raw banana wine after investing the time, space and materials for a brew I might regret. Mind you, I've regretted none thus far. Even if a couple didn't suit my palate, they made fair gifts to friends and family. I've not heard complaints.
Just to let you know, up till this winter I'd not used a muslin or cheesecloth to separate the pulp/material from the liquid in my brews. I've also kept the fruit pulp in during the entire fermentation. Nor do I make with a primary and secondary fermentation. My method is extremely simple, far simpler than most. I use a large, unscented plastic trash bag in a bucket, which I tie up fairly snug with a thick rubber band. The bag inflates during fermentation, the rubber band lets out the CO2 slowly with constant pressure, and when the brew finishes the rubber band keeps snug enough to not allow common air back in. Because the rubber band is outside the bag there's no decay of the rubber or its elasticity via contact with dry alcohol vapours (the reason rubber balloons don't work on bottle tops!) I've used the method for all but a couple of my brews, and have never failed in making a delicious homemade wine despite my crude method. I also don't use Campden/Sulphites because I'm allergic and so are many of my friends, which isn't a problem as I either use clean, filtered water or buy gallons at the store for the job (keeping the jugs for the wine after). Another trick of mine with small batches (or if I'm not completely satisfied that the ferment is fully finished) is take squares of cellophane and smaller rubber bands, cover the mouth of the bottle. The cellophane will bubble and the rubber band will stretch to let out the CO2, but again it only works well if its the right snugness.. not too tight, but not loose enough to let air back in.. An odd science for a brewing hobbyist.
Thanks for your post, and for reading my words thus far. I tend to go on.
Cheers!
~BV
I've been home brewing since 2008, have made fruit "ripple" wines with added sugar out of nearly every kind of fruit, excepting oranges and bananas. Grapes, Cherries (White and Black), Apples, Pears, Apricot, Peach, Cactus Fruit Mead with Lime and Ginger, Plum, and now lovingly brewing a 3-gallon batch of Honduran "Wado" (Pineapple) with wild blackberries. I've also managed several Wildberry wines, including vine berries, bush berries, elderberries, and strawberries. Flower wines such as Dandelion, Wild Rose petals and hips, Berry Blossoms, and even a Lavender wine as a tonic. I've even used Sweet Potatoes and Yams for a light sweet vodka-like liquor (not distilled). I'm fond of combined brews, my favorite thus far was the Mead above (my very first! 2 years of waiting for a 1 gallon batch! Liquid Inspiration!) and my most recent, Apple and Pear with Lime peel (I'll post the recipe sometime).
But despite their availability I've never done the bananas.
I'm wondering a few things about this wine. Is it necessary to keep the skins on and why? What's the flavour like? If I used just the fruit, not the peel, would you think leaving the pulp in during the fermentation would be okay? I'm sure I'll do it as I usually do, keeping the fruit in during the full fermentation, but please could you answer all the same?
The reason I've not tried this idea before (I was thinking for a while of attempting it, before I did my Google Search tonight) because I'm actually allergic to raw bananas. For some reason there's a type of potassium that sloughs off or becomes inactive when bananas are cooked or frozen. Its that type of potassium I'm allergic to, makes me have a very upset tummy. So now that I have frozen nanners at my disposal, they're the ones I'll use. I didn't want to get sick drinking a raw banana wine after investing the time, space and materials for a brew I might regret. Mind you, I've regretted none thus far. Even if a couple didn't suit my palate, they made fair gifts to friends and family. I've not heard complaints.
Just to let you know, up till this winter I'd not used a muslin or cheesecloth to separate the pulp/material from the liquid in my brews. I've also kept the fruit pulp in during the entire fermentation. Nor do I make with a primary and secondary fermentation. My method is extremely simple, far simpler than most. I use a large, unscented plastic trash bag in a bucket, which I tie up fairly snug with a thick rubber band. The bag inflates during fermentation, the rubber band lets out the CO2 slowly with constant pressure, and when the brew finishes the rubber band keeps snug enough to not allow common air back in. Because the rubber band is outside the bag there's no decay of the rubber or its elasticity via contact with dry alcohol vapours (the reason rubber balloons don't work on bottle tops!) I've used the method for all but a couple of my brews, and have never failed in making a delicious homemade wine despite my crude method. I also don't use Campden/Sulphites because I'm allergic and so are many of my friends, which isn't a problem as I either use clean, filtered water or buy gallons at the store for the job (keeping the jugs for the wine after). Another trick of mine with small batches (or if I'm not completely satisfied that the ferment is fully finished) is take squares of cellophane and smaller rubber bands, cover the mouth of the bottle. The cellophane will bubble and the rubber band will stretch to let out the CO2, but again it only works well if its the right snugness.. not too tight, but not loose enough to let air back in.. An odd science for a brewing hobbyist.
Thanks for your post, and for reading my words thus far. I tend to go on.
Cheers!
~BV
That's partially why I like the bag-in-bucket method. It doesn't take much to take the bucket by the handle, and while holding the top of the bag, swirl and shake the bucket as you would mixing a bucket of paint. Can't do that with an airlock in the top. I find its much easier and less precarious than lifting a large glass carboy and the bag method is easier than a simple bucket because you don't need a perfectly sanitized one to brew. Just whip out a new garbage sack and you're on your way (though I sometimes double-bag just in case).
Yeah, I know its
but please forgive me. I'm new Don't want to give the wrong impression. I definitely use glass when available, but as I'm also young and like to experiment (and love to share!) I don't always take the best care of my finished wines. I do like to save a sampler few bottles out of each batch to keep for a good while, but most of my wine doesn't live through the first 6 months. I can thank my roommates for that.
I had a nice collection of 1 gallon glass jugs not long ago, but I couldn't take them with me in my recent relocation.. Now I'm back down to using juice concentrates, looking for fast money and saving up cheap store-bought wine bottles from friends' visits. No, whatever's left of this Wado won't be kept in plastic.
Sheepless
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Last night the wife and I opened a bottle of the banana wine...it has been bottled about 3 months now. It was a nice surprise to us how nicely it turned out, as it was pretty hot when bottled. Just a hint of a banana afternote, but other than that we thought it was about like a Barefoot Chardonnay we had last year. Thanks to Yooper for the recipe.
We used extremely ripe bananas. The drugstore across the street from elementary school keeps bananas at the checkout for after-school snacks and these had gotten too ripe to sell. So...free. If this wine interests you, it might be a good chance to make friends with a grocer and help him dispose of some older fruit.
We used extremely ripe bananas. The drugstore across the street from elementary school keeps bananas at the checkout for after-school snacks and these had gotten too ripe to sell. So...free. If this wine interests you, it might be a good chance to make friends with a grocer and help him dispose of some older fruit.
So what do you guys think I should do now? I let this ferment for 6 days down to about 1.040. I transferred it into a 6 gallon better bottle, let it sit for 29 days, when I checked the gravity it was all the way down to 0.898!!
Today, which was day 32 in secondary, I just transferred it into a 5 gallon better bottle, all the way to the top pretty much. Do you think I should let it sit a couple more weeks, add some metabisulfate and sorbate, then bottle? Or do I also need to de-gas it?
Today, which was day 32 in secondary, I just transferred it into a 5 gallon better bottle, all the way to the top pretty much. Do you think I should let it sit a couple more weeks, add some metabisulfate and sorbate, then bottle? Or do I also need to de-gas it?
My original interest in using bananas was after I'd visited a food bank with a friend, seeing all the overripe bananas just sitting there unloved. I'm sure they get tossed out at the end of the day if nobody clears them out.. it would be worth the trouble to wait to the end and see if the people in charge would be willing to part with the bushel or so of overripe fruits. But that would mean doing a couple buckets of wine a week if I really got into it.. I'm not sure that's legal to make so much for personal use.. but if I just kept giving it away, maybe that would be okay? I make my wine to share, not keep. I've already given away half my Wado batch, finished just a couple weeks ago. Now my banana seems nearly done, and I've already got enough overripe ones sitting in the freezer to do another. They just keep coming!
coleandrobin
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I plan on making 3 gal of this. For primary fermentation on this should I use a 5gal fermentor or 3 1 gal? I guess what I'm asking is whether I should be worried about oxidation.
For Primary Fermentation, you don't need to worry about oxidation. Plenty of CO2 will be generated and push out the oxygen. Many of us ferment 5 gallons in 6.5 - 7 gallon fermenters.
coleandrobin
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Thank you so much, very helpful. Also can you really just loosely cover it? Seems like it'd be risking contamination.
Many people for the first 5 - 7 days of fermentation for fruit wines, will just cover it with a towel. Then use an airlock in secondary. I personally don't do that, but tons of people do.
coleandrobin
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Is stirring the must daily something pretty important? Or could I just shake the fermentor?
TheManchesterMorgue
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That's mostly to get air into it so the yeast have oxygen to burn while they ferment. Stirring with the top off rather than shaking it under a 'lock.
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TheManchesterMorgue
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Contamination isnt as much of an issue as everything you read suggests early on. Once the yeast has a foothold and is breeding and feeding it's pretty much top dog in there. Thats not to say its a good idea to go sneezing or shaking your pets over it or anything but your must will be open a fair bit early on so you can aerate and such. You can get away with quite a lot once the yeast is dug in. DWRHAHB.
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My first cherry wine I did with a friend who bought a primary-like plastic trash bin, brand new, and did the whole ferment with a cloth over the top, covered with the can lid. It worked just fine. I haven't done one like it since, though. I prefer to stick to my bags.
