Banana flavor

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MikeMetroka

MikeMetroka

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What’s the best yeast to get that banana flavor not so much clove.
Yeast?
Fern temp?
Tia
 
Ferulic acid rest 110 degrees Fahrenheit for 5 minutes it's bananas b.a.n.a.n.a.s open fermentation, underpitch, warm fermentation.
 
Kiln said:
Ferulic acid rest 110 degrees Fahrenheit for 5 minutes it's bananas b.a.n.a.n.a.s open fermentation, underpitch, warm fermentation.
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Ummmm, a ferulic acid rest will help increase the amount of 4VG in the final product, which is the clove aspect.
 
Hmmmm i was like ummm I was like um um um i was like um um um um um i was just readin right
 
Kiln said:
Hmmmm i was like ummm I was like um um um i was like um um um um um i was just readin right
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Eh? @Comfort_Zone was offering a well-informed correction. This thread will serve as a reference for future guests and so accuracy matters. The thread and its contents do not belong to the OP, but to the brewing community. Thank him and move on.
 
the 4VG is a desinct characteristic to the style. It is the Open fermenter that produces more then twice the isoamyl acetate, the classic banana ester in "weisse" or white beer. The rest in combination with all the above combined you can achieve not just clove. You want to pop the esters and phenols with open fermentation. the Co2 levels will be lower so it will not inhibit ester levels. The wyeast3638 wlp351 yeast are appropriate for this style.
 
Kiln said:
the 4VG is a desinct characteristic to the style. It is the Open fermenter that produces more then twice the isoamyl acetate, the classic banana ester in "weisse" or white beer. The rest in combination with all the above combined you can achieve not just clove. You want to pop the esters and phenols with open fermentation. the Co2 levels will be lower so it will not inhibit ester levels. The wyeast3638 wlp351 yeast are appropriate for this style.
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Not even Lance Armstrong could back pedal that swiftly. Kinda hard to appreciate though in that cloud of extraneous detail.
 
To address the OP, if you want to increase the amount of banana character I'd consider pitching a little on the warmer side, and pitch a little less than you think you'll need. From what I understand after talking to various microbiologists is that the vast majority of your esters are formed during the growth phase. Basically, encourage more growth and you'll get more ester formation. WLP300, Imperial Stephon, or one of the other equivalents will get off to a good start.
 
I love hefs and will try a warmer ferment next time... maybe even an open ferment. Imperial Stefon has worked well for me so far but I’m always willing to try something new.

Now, someone tell me how to make my hef as orange and malty as a Paulaner!
 
Horseflesh said:
I love hefs and will try a warmer ferment next time... maybe even an open ferment. Imperial Stefon has worked well for me so far but I’m always willing to try something new.

Now, someone tell me how to make my hef as orange and malty as a Paulaner!
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I'm not terribly familiar with Paulaner's process but I do know that the orangey colour in a lot of German Hefes comes from the use of red wheat. It doesn't add a lot of color but it does add that little extra tint.
 
Horseflesh said:
I love hefs and will try a warmer ferment next time... maybe even an open ferment. Imperial Stefon has worked well for me so far but I’m always willing to try something new.

Now, someone tell me how to make my hef as orange and malty as a Paulaner!
Click to expand...

Decoction
 
Comfort_Zone said:
I'm not terribly familiar with Paulaner's process but I do know that the orangey colour in a lot of German Hefes comes from the use of red wheat. It doesn't add a lot of color but it does add that little extra tint.
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I'm already using red wheat and still have a long way to go.

couchsending said:
Decoction
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I was afraid someone would say that. :) Opinions on it are sure mixed, but I am going to have to try it for myself, aren't I?
 
No worries. I just mentioned it because it's probably the one thing I see the most. People using American white wheat malt instead of a decent German red wheat. You could always try a decoction but I've never noticed a difference in color when I do one. Just a much longer brew day.
 
Decoction is traditional for Hefes in Germany. Boiling your decoction for a longer period of time will cause color pickup and increases melanoidin character. I would bet there’s some Carahell in a lot of German Hefes, although not a ton.

Weyermann makes two wheat malts, pale and dark. If you’re going to make a traditonal German beer you definitely need to use at least Weyermann (as it’s the easiest to get). Their pale wheat is a little darker than American white wheat usually.

If you want some more color just sprinkle a little caraaroma on the mash bed before you sparge, it’ll give you that nice glowing orange look.
 
I'm on my fourth attempt at producing a true German sytle hefe. I just tasted the most recent batch and I'm almost there...so close. May need to let it clean up a bit more.

I use white labs 300. Warm ferment at 73/74.

Haven't tried open fermentation...to scared to infect my unitank.

I absolutely believe the in docoction, but for flavor. Previous batches just lacked body...were kinda boring. Docoction really added that "it" factor for me.
 
ArmyDoc87 said:
I'm on my fourth attempt at producing a true German sytle hefe. I just tasted the most recent batch and I'm almost there...so close. May need to let it clean up a bit more.

I use white labs 300. Warm ferment at 73/74.

Haven't tried open fermentation...to scared to infect my unitank.

I absolutely believe the in docoction, but for flavor. Previous batches just lacked body...were kinda boring. Docoction really added that "it" factor for me.
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I’d be more worried about a Hefe strain infecting your unitank than anything else. Certain Hefe strains can survive multiple rounds of acid/caustic and are incredibly resilient. A lot of contract breweries won’t allow them in the brewery.

You can easily do open fermentation anywhere. Just put a box loosely over the unitank. Nothing can crawl up it’s gotta fall into it.
 
ArmyDoc87 said:
Haven't tried open fermentation...to scared to infect my unitank.
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I believe 'open fermentation' only refers to fermenting at atmospheric pressure, not using any sort of spunding valve because for some reason pressure on yeast inhibits the formation of esters. I think I even read somewhere on HBT that the tiny bit of back pressure created by an airlock would hinder esters but that's nonsense. Atmospheric pressure fluctuates with the weather, altitude, etc. to a far greater degree than the tiny bit of force required to push out a bubble. Shoot, I push out bubbles all the time and it has had no noticeable effect on the level of my banana-ness.
 
Yea I think they did a brulosophy test on it and said it didn't make much difference with respect to open fermentation. My hometown brewery, Troegs, swears by a true open fermentation and they do have a nice wheat.

I might try it someday with a vessel that I'm not as scared of getting infected.

Interesting about the hefe strain infecting tanks...have never hear that one before. Have to look into it. So far haven't noticed any esters in my other beers .
 
It's super simple to get the banana. Just use WLP300 or WY3068. Pitch and ferment at 72F to 75F in whatever type of fermenting vessel you prefer. Keep the recipe simple at 50/50 to 60/40 wheat malt to pilsner malt. Single infusion mash at 152F ish is totally fine. No need for an acid rest. Keep the IBU's < 20 so you dont hide anything. Maybe liberty, saaz, mitty or a similar unoffending hop.

I always have it on tap and have actually been asked if it was made with bananas.
 
Good to hear from a decoction fan, seems like 99% of the time people say it isn't worth the trouble. But my hefs need that "it" factor for sure and I am willing to try just about anything.
 
I'd like to try performing a decoction if I could find some info on how to do that when brewing in a bag. How precise do I have to be pulling 1/3 of the mash? Does a thin mash help or hurt the process? Can I cook it with the lid on? Do I have to stir it? I think I could use a small saucepan as a makeshift ladle to scoop it out, but my largest stock pot is 12qt, is that enough?

Edit: If pulling 1/3 of the mash and boiling it doesn't extract tannins from the husks, why not just boil the entire mash before pulling the bag??
 
Jayjay1976 said:
I'd like to try performing a decoction if I could find some info on how to do that when brewing in a bag. How precise do I have to be pulling 1/3 of the mash? Does a thin mash help or hurt the process? Can I cook it with the lid on? Do I have to stir it? I think I could use a small saucepan as a makeshift ladle to scoop it out, but my largest stock pot is 12qt, is that enough?

Edit: If pulling 1/3 of the mash and boiling it doesn't extract tannins from the husks, why not just boil the entire mash before pulling the bag??
Click to expand...

Not to get too off topic here, but 1/3 of total mash volume is the only way I've heard or done it myself. Does not have to be precise. Any pot will work, I would recommend a larger pot to keep the column of grains short and flat for equal heat distribution.
Yes you have to stir regulalry to prevent scorching.
I found a thicker mash is best.
Don't keep the lid on.

I really don't find it increases my day that much more than the little extra time to clean the pot since it is done 15 mins after mash in and is usually done in 30 minutes. All within the total mash time.

Back to the main topic, I also skiped a starter for my 10G batch and used two, 1 month old packets with minimal oxygenation. Seemed to help too.
 
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Ended up fermenting at 64 for 1 week, added dry hops and fermenting the second week at 74. We’ll see.
 
MikeMetroka said:
How would 3068 do at room temp? Say 74?
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Definitely banana and almost no clove if you kept it at 74 from the start. I've run 3068 and 300 in the mid 70's with good results.

Keep in mind that most of the esters are thrown during the most active fermentation period.
 
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