Bad efficiency and too clear lautering

[Progfan2010]

I brewed my second AG beer last week. This time I did calculate my efficiency and overall it was about only 60%.

After reading on a few topics I now know I could improve my efficiency if I crush the grain a little more. On this I have an issue. On my first brew I had a very clear wort from the very first runnings. I thought my Mash tun design was so good that the manifold wouldn´t allow any debris go through, but this time it really made me wonder whether I´m not crushing the grain enough.

So the first question: If my wort is clear (and I mean no debris or even tiny pieces of husk) from the very first runnings, am I maybe not crushing my grain enough?

Also, I read that stirring every 15-20 minutes during the mash will help on the conversion. I read that doing a mash out will help dissolving the remaining sugars from the grain during lautering.

So, in your opinion. Crushing the grain a little more, stirring during the mash, doing a mash out and taking longer on the lautering will help me increase my efficiency?

 

[phuff7129]

Keep in mind that consistant efficiency is more important that high efficiency. You are still in the process of dialing in your equipment and process. While 60% efficiency would probably be considered low, if you get 60% everytime you can design your recipe based on your efficiency. A little more grain is cheap.

Getting a really good crush will definitely improve your efficiency. If you do some searching on this forum you will find a thread where a bunch of people posted pictures of their crush. This will give you a good idea of what a good crush looks like. I set my mill at .036 and find that it gives me the crush I want. If you use your LHBS then you will want to ask what their setting is and if it is higher, ask them for a finer crush or try running it through the mill twice.

It will take you a few more batches to dial your equipment in. If getting a better crush doesn't help then we might want to take a look at your manifold.

I do not stir during my mash. Opening my mashtun loses heat. I put my mash water in the mashtun, and then stir in the grain. Stir it thoroghly to make sure it all gets wet. I will stir it until it settles at my mash temp. Then I close up the cooler and let it set for the entire rest.

You didn't mention what type of sparge technique you use. That is another area that can affect efficiency. I batch sparge using two equal amounts of sparge water. I give the sparge a good stir and then vorlauf. I use Denny Conn's method of batch sparging. Again you can search that on this forum.

There are alot of things that go into refining your process. I would focus on crush, thorough stir of your grains into the mash water. Hitting your temps, and good sparge technique. If you do this you should see improvement in your efficiency. Also focus on consistancy so you can desing your recipes properly. Always have a little DME on hand in case your OG is a little low, you can add som DME to bring it up. It you get too high efficiency you can always add water to bring it down. Good luck!

 

[novahokie09]

Depends on a few factors.

It seems the recommended crush size should be around 0.032" on a mill (~1/32"), so the grains shouldn't be like flour but the husks should be cracked with a little bit of grist mixed in.

Also, some things that I didn't see you mention that may impact your efficiency are: sparge technique and size, mash thickness, qt H2O/# grain.

I will assume you are batch sparging. For this, I recommend doing two batch sparges with equal volumes minus your first runings to arrive at your pre-boil volume. So if you're targeting 7 gallons pre-boil and get 3 gallons from your MLT, you'll want to do two 2 gallon batch sparges around 165-170F (don't go over 170F or risk extracting tannins from the grain). You actually want your initial runinngs to be less volume than your sparge water.

Mash temp thickness can impact your efficiency inconsistently, but I'd recommend at least 4" and probably no more than 12". In terms of qt H2O/# grain, you'll probably want to stay between 1.25 and no more than 2.

Another thing that may benefit you is stirring in the water gradually to ensure you have the grains well wetted. Otherwise, you may find you have dry grain that didn't have contact with water.

I hope this helps.

 

[gcdowd]

Another thing that helps me is that I drain my mash and sparge very slowly. Too fast and you can lose efficiency. I do one sparge and consistently get 70+%.

 

[Progfan2010]

Keep in mind that consistant efficiency is more important that high efficiency. You are still in the process of dialing in your equipment and process. While 60% efficiency would probably be considered low, if you get 60% everytime you can design your recipe based on your efficiency. A little more grain is cheap.

Getting a really good crush will definitely improve your efficiency. If you do some searching on this forum you will find a thread where a bunch of people posted pictures of their crush. This will give you a good idea of what a good crush looks like. I set my mill at .036 and find that it gives me the crush I want. If you use your LHBS then you will want to ask what their setting is and if it is higher, ask them for a finer crush or try running it through the mill twice.

It will take you a few more batches to dial your equipment in. If getting a better crush doesn't help then we might want to take a look at your manifold.

I do not stir during my mash. Opening my mashtun loses heat. I put my mash water in the mashtun, and then stir in the grain. Stir it thoroghly to make sure it all gets wet. I will stir it until it settles at my mash temp. Then I close up the cooler and let it set for the entire rest.

You didn't mention what type of sparge technique you use. That is another area that can affect efficiency. I batch sparge using two equal amounts of sparge water. I give the sparge a good stir and then vorlauf. I use Denny Conn's method of batch sparging. Again you can search that on this forum.

There are alot of things that go into refining your process. I would focus on crush, thorough stir of your grains into the mash water. Hitting your temps, and good sparge technique. If you do this you should see improvement in your efficiency. Also focus on consistancy so you can desing your recipes properly. Always have a little DME on hand in case your OG is a little low, you can add som DME to bring it up. It you get too high efficiency you can always add water to bring it down. Good luck!

Thank you !. Well, I have no access to one of those fancy grain crushers here in Mexico. I have to settle for a Corona Mill, but still, I think my crushes look exactly like what people describe in forums; Opened but not crushed husks, a mix of crushed grain (endosperm) and some "flour". However, I am thinking I should crush more because the wort is as clear from debris as I think it could get. I do some vuorlauf just for the sake of it but it seems unimportant if the point of it is to get a clearer wort.

I do Batch sparge. This time the grain bill was 10# 6 row and 1.11# of caramel 60. I mashed in with a ratio of 1.15 qts per pound at 165 F and it settled at 147 F. I wanted to hit 153.5 F so I added about 2 quarts of boiling water and it raised to 149. That was a total volume of about 15.5 quarts.

I ended up sparging with only 13.5 quarts which I assume is bad, because that´s smaller than the mash volume.

You are right about the importance of efficiency and grain cost. I agree. But I just feel frustrated that after all the reading I´ve done, my efficiency (and therefore, my actual brewing) is deficient.

One question. When you say you baqtch sparge using two equal amounts of water you mean than after draining the runnings from the mash, you pour 50% of the sparge water, drain it and then pour the other 50% of sparge water to drain again and get the total of the Pre boil volume?

Regards

 

[novahokie09]

You should add your sparge water and stir it like hell. Let it rest for 10 minutes and then pour it off. Repeat these two steps once more for the second batch volume.

 

[worksnorth]

Perhaps you could try running your grain twice through your Corona Mill one time and see if that helps a little? It may make a slightly finer grind.
And yes, you quoted phuff7129's directions on how he sparges accurately I believe. 50% of total sparge water, drain, and then the final 50% of sparge water for the total of the pre boil amount.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

poor efficiency and clear lauter could be due to channeling in the grain bed, right?

false bottom? manifold? what kinda mash tun are we talking about?

fwiw my mash tun is a 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler with a stainless steel false bottom, I batch sparge, and i always turn the valve full on, and i consistently get 75%ish efficiency.