Bad Beer - What Happened?

[Tazzster]

Hey Guys!

I had a couple of beers turn out not like I expected. One of them I had brewed twice before, so I was really surprised when it came out like it did.

This is the recipe...

9.5 lb 2 row
.75 lb Caramel Crystal 60L
.75 lb Caramel Crystal 90L
1 lb Vienna

1oz Cascade - 60
1oz Citra - 15
1oz Citra - 0
1oz Citra - secondary

California Ale Yeast White Labs WLP001


Usually this comes out as a mild beer with strong aromas and flavors from the Citra hops. However this time it came out bitter and the hop aromas and flavors are almost non-existent.

I also had a similar recipe in which I was testing out Galaxy hops. I was expecting strong hop flavors from that one but instead in turned out tasting a lot like the other failed batch.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the beer is cloudy even after cold crashing. This is unusual as it usually clears up very nicely.

Does anyone have any idea what went wrong?

Thanks!

 

[GCPHomebrew]

Missing some vital info! How to you cool it? How to you keep temp in the fermenter? Is this the same as the other batches? Do you use fermcap? Are there any changes to your brew day or fermentation compared to earlier batches.

 

[SC_Ryan]

My guess would be either oxidation or improper mash pH. Did you recently switch to AG? Do you meter your mash pH?

 

[Tazzster]

Missing some vital info! How to you cool it? How to you keep temp in the fermenter? Is this the same as the other batches? Do you use fermcap? Are there any changes to your brew day or fermentation compared to earlier batches.

Everything was the same. The fermentation temp could be a possibility. We had some warm days and it might have gotten a little warmer than ideal. However I brewed two batches (different beers but similar) and the other one is ok.

I did change my water source. I started using my well water instead of buying water from the store. But I have done 6 batches that way and only two turned out strange.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the beer is cloudy even after cold crashing. This is unusual as it usually clears up very nicely.

 

[Tazzster]

My guess would be either oxidation or improper mash pH. Did you recently switch to AG? Do you meter your mash pH?

I don't meter my pH and I have been doing all grain for a while.

From reading this here ... http://www.morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors ... it sounds like I got an Astringent Flavor.

Maybe it is the tannins? Maybe I squeezed the bag a little too much after mashing?

Could my sparge water have been too hot? I normally dunk sparge at 170.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the beer is cloudy even after cold crashing. This is unusual as it usually clears up very nicely.

 

[zmanzorro]

Do you know what the alpha acids were on your previous and current hops?

Could have been a weak crop.

 

[Gameface]

Everything was the same. The fermentation temp could be a possibility. We had some warm days and it might have gotten a little warmer than ideal. However I brewed two batches (different beers but similar) and the other one is ok.

I did change my water source. I started using my well water instead of buying water from the store. But I have done 6 batches that way and only two turned out strange.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the beer is cloudy even after cold crashing. This is unusual as it usually clears up very nicely.

I learned the value of fermentation temp control when my beer that I had been happy with in the late fall, winter and early spring tasted like shredded credit cards when I made it in the summer.

Temp control matters and my money is on warm fermentation.

 

[Yooper]

I don't meter my pH and I have been doing all grain for a while.

From reading this here ... http://www.morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors ... it sounds like I got an Astringent Flavor.

Maybe it is the tannins? Maybe I squeezed the bag a little too much after mashing?

Could my sparge water have been too hot? I normally dunk sparge at 170.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the beer is cloudy even after cold crashing. This is unusual as it usually clears up very nicely.

It could be that the new water source is higher in alkalinity and the mash pH would be higher. That can cause astringency, as can sparging with alkaline water. It's not an issue for most of us when making darker beers, as the darker grains help reduce mash pH (and sparge pH), but for lighter colored beers without darker roasted grains, it is a big issue.

 

[Mx750ktm]

It could be that the new water source is higher in alkalinity and the mash pH would be higher. That can cause astringency, as can sparging with alkaline water. It's not an issue for most of us when making darker beers, as the darker grains help reduce mash pH (and sparge pH), but for lighter colored beers without darker roasted grains, it is a big issue.

This is exactly what just happened to me. I just moved to Vegas from Ohio and my water back home was perfect for hoppy beers. When I moved here and did anything remotely hoppy my beers were drinkable at best. The hops just were not pronounced and were toned way down and only the bitterness shined through. I recently redid the same recipe with RO water with some small additions of Gypsum, Epsom salt and Calcium chloride. That was the ticket for my beers. It all came down to my water. I'm a +1 for it being the water causing lack of hop presence.

 

[SC_Ryan]

It could be that the new water source is higher in alkalinity and the mash pH would be higher. That can cause astringency, as can sparging with alkaline water. It's not an issue for most of us when making darker beers, as the darker grains help reduce mash pH (and sparge pH), but for lighter colored beers without darker roasted grains, it is a big issue.

+1 on this

 

[Tazzster]

It could be that the new water source is higher in alkalinity and the mash pH would be higher. That can cause astringency, as can sparging with alkaline water. It's not an issue for most of us when making darker beers, as the darker grains help reduce mash pH (and sparge pH), but for lighter colored beers without darker roasted grains, it is a big issue.

This seems to make sense.

The question now is ... what do I do?

I read this ... https://byo.com/hops/item/1493-the-power-of-ph ... and my head is swimming.

It seems like it would be easier to go back to buying the natural spring water from the store that I was using. Unless, of course this is a lot of technological mumbo-jumbo and their is an easy way to test and adjust the pH.

So, if I wanted to keep using my water what do I do?

• What would I use to test for pH?
• When would I test for pH?
• And how would I adjust that pH?
• And what level am I shooting for?

Thanks everyone for your answers so far. This has been a great help.

 

[SC_Ryan]

You basically have three choices.

1. You can go back to your bottled water if you were happy with the results you were getting and forget about this whole pH thing until you run into a grain bill that doesn't taste as good.

2. You can start to get into controlling mash ph but keep things in the shallow end by using AJ Delange's water chemistry primer. You will need to use either distilled (di) or reverse osmosis (RO) water and purchase a digital pH meter to meter your mash pH. You can see the guide here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

3. To use your well water it would be best to send a sample of it to Ward Labs for an analysis report. You will need to know what ion concentrations are in your base water before you start messing with it. You can post the report in the brewing science forum and people will help you out with it. You can use either phosphoric acid or acidified malt to neutralize the alkalinity but you will need to know what you are neutralizing which is why you need the report. There may be other ions in your water that can have a negative effect as well. Once you know what you are dealing with, there are spreadsheets that will help you calculate what you need to add or subtract from the water. The spread sheets aren't 100% accurate, so you will need to have a pH meter to test your mash pH after you have made your adjustments. Bru'n water makes a nice spreadsheet and there is a good educational section of their website as well. Here: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Good luck!