Backsweetening cider but maintaining enough yeast for carbonation?

[iBrew]

I have been reading post after post on stopping a cider after primary with camden tablets and backsweetning with concentrate and/or splenda but I can't figure out how there will be any carbonation if I kill off the yeast. My cider is too dry at less than 1.000 so how do I halt, sweeten and prime 5 gallons to achieve a sweeter flavor and some bubbles in my bottles as well?

 

[Freezeblade]

In short: no, you can't bottle carbonate and backsweeten with sugar

In long: there have been a few ways discussed, sweetening with an unfermentable (splenda, sevetia, xythol, etc. This is the only way I'd do it), heat pasturizing the bottles once you get the carbonation level you want (IMHO would leave a cooked apple flavor, and possibly some wierdness from sped up fermentation getting up to the right temp), and the last was bottling, letting it carb up, then putting all the bottles in the fridge to delay fermentation (although this may not stop it, and could still result in bottle bombs if left for a longer period of time). In the latter two, you're probably going to end up with quite the sediment in the bottom of the bottles.

All this said, I like my ciders dry and aged for a good amount of time, so I don't bother with all of these anymore.


Note: I still say we need to have a sticky about this, as it's possibly the most commonly asked question on here.

 

[gregbathurst]

IMHO if you like home made cider you should get used to fully dry. Once you get used to dry, sweetness tastes wrong, and dry is healthier anyway.

 

[jkarp]

I have been reading post after post on stopping a cider after primary with camden tablets and backsweetning with concentrate and/or splenda but I can't figure out how there will be any carbonation if I kill off the yeast. My cider is too dry at less than 1.000 so how do I halt, sweeten and prime 5 gallons to achieve a sweeter flavor and some bubbles in my bottles as well?

Easy. You get into kegging so you can force-carbonate.

 

[EvilTOJ]

How is it being dry healthier?

Jkarp, saying kegging is easy is like saying rocket surgery is easy; just find a rocket and start taking it apart. There's a large equipment outlay with getting kegging equipment, hundreds of dollars worth. Most people can't afford that, even for a simple setup.

 

[jkarp]

How is it being dry healthier?

Jkarp, saying kegging is easy is like saying rocket surgery is easy; just find a rocket and start taking it apart. There's a large equipment outlay with getting kegging equipment, hundreds of dollars worth. Most people can't afford that, even for a simple setup.

Ummmm, sorry, No.

OP wants sweet, carbonated cider. Kegging is really the only viable way to do it unless you like the taste of artificial sweeteners. ANYONE can get into kegging for about $60. CLICKY HERE.

 

[david_42]

Kegging is really the only viable way to do it unless you like the taste of artificial sweeteners.

Lactose isn't artificial, doesn't ferment, and it will also give more body to the cider.

 

[jkarp]

Lactose isn't artificial, doesn't ferment, and it will also give more body to the cider.

Agreed, but have you tried it? I had a lactose-sweetened cider once and poured it down the drain while the brewer wasn't looking. :cross:

 

[Freezeblade]

Agreed on the lactose point, tastes bad man.

 

[sjlammer]

You can add wine conditioner to it. or add sorbate to the cider to stop the yeast and then backsweeten with concentrate.

 

[ChemEMc]

From what I understand you cannot force-carbonate with the small CO2 cartridges, like the small draft system in the link above, it even says to prime with sugar, then dispense with CO2. The small cartridges are only good for dispensing, whatever size the "keg" may be. You could save some money by buying a CO2 tank, the regulator and houses and carbonate in soda bottles with a carbonator cap, but you basically only save a few bucks, as corney's are only $40 or so.

 

[Freezeblade]

You can add wine conditioner to it. or add sorbate to the cider to stop the yeast and then backsweeten with concentrate.

This will leave you with a sweet and STILL cider. the OP was talking about sweet and carbonated cider.

It is easy to get the following:
Sweet Still Cider
Dry Still Cider
Dry Carbonated Cider

But quite difficult (without a kegging setup) to get Sweet Carbonated Cider.

 

[RugenBrau]

ibrew,
This topic was discussed a little in I thought I would share some info (sorry but I don't know how to make the link) I have not tried the dishwasher because mine gets too hot) The pressure cooker seems to work fine but it is time consuming and I can't get more than 16 in mine. I like the fact that a cover is on it in case one blows. You could use any pot.(I've read about a guy who used a cut off 55 gallon drum) I notice a slight variation in taste but I don't think I would have unless I was really looking for it. It is a lot easier to force carb it in a corny. If you are in a club perhaps you could find someone who would carb it for you and then use a bottling gun to bottle it. Again this cost $ but if you like the sweet carbed cider from the store, that cost $$ too!

Just be careful

 

[gregbathurst]

How is it being dry healthier?

Well not a big difference but there's less calories and its better for your teeth, and if you use lots of additives to stabilise and backsweeten thats not great either.

 

[jkarp]

From what I understand you cannot force-carbonate with the small CO2 cartridges, like the small draft system in the link above, it even says to prime with sugar, then dispense with CO2. The small cartridges are only good for dispensing, whatever size the "keg" may be. You could save some money by buying a CO2 tank, the regulator and houses and carbonate in soda bottles with a carbonator cap, but you basically only save a few bucks, as corney's are only $40 or so.

Been force carbonating for years with TaD. Directions are included with the kit. I assure you, it works fantastic for cider.

 

[ChemEMc]

Been force carbonating for years with TaD. Directions are included with the kit. I assure you, it works fantastic for cider.

Can't argue with results, i stand corrected.

 

[smiths9312]

All these naysayers talking about how bad for you artificial sweeteners are, well, I've been drinking diet Mt. Dew for over 20 years and it hasn't killed me yet. There are a lot more people that have died from alchohol than will ever die from Splenda.

I backsweeten my cider with Splenda and then bottle carb. It's good. It's A WHOLE LOT better than lactose. I don't shoot for overly sweet, but I like it a little sweet as it more closely resembles the taste of apples. That's usually around 3 cups of Splenda for 5 gallons.

You can also try wine conditioner or xylotol. But, when the likes of nearly every major food and drink producer have switched to Spenda, you know it is going to be hard to beat.

 

[iBrew]

Thanks for all the reply info. I think I have decided that I am going to backsweeten with splenda. I use splenda in my coffee and tea, and never had an issue with taste. I am also giving some as a gift....to a diabetic, so it seems to work out best for my situation here. Maybe next time I will try a yeast that won't dry me out so fast and to such an extent. Just took a SG reading today, was 1.062 less than a week ago (at its start) and is now 1.000 and still slowly-a-bubblin away

 

[risk]

totally new to brewing in general and have been enjoying my first batch of cider which i sweetened with 2 cans of concentrate before bottling. its been about 3 weeks since i bottled and have had no bottle bombs as of yet.

 

[Freezeblade]

totally new to brewing in general and have been enjoying my first batch of cider which i sweetened with 2 cans of concentrate before bottling. its been about 3 weeks since i bottled and have had no bottle bombs as of yet.

yet being the key word, the carbonation builds up over time, I'd drink those quick if I were you, as it will just keep getting more and more carbonated until they overcarbonate, blow all the liquid out when you open one (I've had this happen once back when I first started, it makes a big mess too), and finally blow the bottles up when the carbonation gets too much for the glass of the bottles to take.

 

[jonnyjonjon]

How long has your cider been in the fermenter? I know that when i tried the last batch i made it came out super dry but the flavor was also just really abrasive in general and had a few off flavors (like a sulphery farty kind of note) but i just let the stuff age and all those flavors mellowed out considerably and its mellowing still. So if its just that its dry and you don't like that thats one thing but if its the flavor itself just keep in mind that your cider still has a long way to go.

 

[risk]

they have been in the refrigerator for about a week and i cant see any noticible yeast production, but yeah this stuff didnt last long, only 2 bottles left

yet being the key word, the carbonation builds up over time, I'd drink those quick if I were you, as it will just keep getting more and more carbonated until they overcarbonate, blow all the liquid out when you open one (I've had this happen once back when I first started, it makes a big mess too), and finally blow the bottles up when the carbonation gets too much for the glass of the bottles to take.

 

[Brutus Brewer]

I've been thinking about back sweetening my cider. I was planning on using a pound of either pure cane sugar or corn sugar, dissolved in about a pint of 180° water. I would then add it to a keg for carbonation. BTW, if I kegged it tonight could I have it fully charged by Saturday afternoon? We're having a party for the Ohio State game and I'd like to unveil it then. I was thinking like 40 psi, shake 2 to 3 times tonight and tomorrow and serve Saturday

 

[CvilleKevin]

If you put it in the fridge and keep the gas on, it will have a decent carb in two days. probably wont be fully carbed, but enough for drinking

 

[mordantly]

IMHO if you like home made cider you should get used to fully dry. Once you get used to dry, sweetness tastes wrong, and dry is healthier anyway.

run that by me again? you don't like it wet? champagne yeats?

 

[SFBEER]

I made a batch of cider from a Vineco kit about 2 months ago. I used wine conditioner to back sweeten a little since I found it dry. I was trying to get a sweet carbed cider so I didn't add the clarifier and bottle primed half the bottles but left the other half still. The still bottles were all drank in about 2 weeks. I still have 2 or 3 bottles of the primed stuff in the fridge. It turned into a farty, over carbbed, weird flavoured mess. The wine sweetner did a good job of adjusting the flavour and it didn't produce any carbonation. I will not be attempting to create a carbonated sweet cider until I eventually get into kegging.

 

[Teromous]

I looked at that Tap-A-Draft system and it mentions using CO2 for dispensing, but not for carbonating. It says "Package beer in Tap-A-Draft bottles, prime with sugar, and dispense with disposable CO2 cartridges."

To me that sounds like you would be carbonating with sugar, so if you wanted to make a sweet carbonated hard cider, it would actually turn out as a dry carbonated one. Are you carbonating with a CO2 tank or something? I'm looking at buying a kegging setup but this one just sounds off...

 

[jkarp]

You don't *have* to bottle prime with TaD. It comes with instructions on how to force-carbonate as well. It generally takes two cartridges to push a bottle and two to force-carbonate. Buy the cartridges from Bestwhip and it'll run you about $1.60 to carbonate and push a TaD bottle.

 

[Guinness]

From the Aplefwein thread, a suggestion for getting sweet, sparkling cider was to pour 7-up in it before drinking

 

[conpewter]

I think Splenda is your best bet besides a kegging system. I plan to backsweeten most of my wines from now on, I just like sweet wines as do most of my friends (really not big wine drinkers).

 

[iBrew]

(OP here) Just letting you all know how it turned out. I bottled with 3/4 cup corn sugar and 1.5 cups of splenda (the cup for cup [to sugar] baking splenda). Everyone seemed to like it but the women in my family and in my circle of friends back in Connecticut really liked it especially. In my own critical analysis, I would have to admit that it came out far too sweet, and almost to the point I could tell it was artificial (like flat diet soda but with champagne bubbles). These bottles I'm referring to as too sweet, however, were opened before Christmas. On new years I opened three 750 ml corked bottles for the toast and this stuff really had a different flavor and mouthfeel. The sweetness of the splenda merged with the tartness of the apple flavor quite well. I have some extras that I didn't use during the holidays that I am letting condition further. I figure if one week between Christmas and New Year's Eve could make a difference, then it wold only make sense to try some after a month or two more. Even though it's too sweet it wasn't a complete failure. If nothing else, I learned that it this process is a viable method for maintaining yeast for carbonation as well as backsweetening.
Next time I will try somewhere in between half a cup and a cup of splenda, as are most things in brewing: less is more... (unless we're talking abv)