Attempting Saison...suggestions?

[Schnitzengiggle]

I have been AG brewing going onmy third year, I have brewed tons of IPA's, APA's, a couple Dubbels, A Belgian Quad, Kolsch, among others, most have come out fantastic, some could have definitley been refined. Having said that, I will be brewing my first Saison this wekend (Sunday).

Here is the recipe:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal
Boil Size: 12.57 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 74.3 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.6 %
39.50 g Saaz [5.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 14.0 IBUs
38.00 g Saaz [5.80 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 10.4 IBUs
38.00 g Saaz [5.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.7 IBUs
1 lbs 8.0 oz Piloncillo (45.0 SRM) Sugar 4 8.6 %
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison I Ale (White Labs #WLP565 Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 20.12 qt of water at 163.4 F 148.0 F 75 min

I actually have 1.06 lbs of Jaggery sugar that I will use. I will sub approx. .5 lb of Piloncillo, but it will make the color a bit lighter, and I have never used Jaggery sugar in any of my brews yet, so I wanted to use it for the lighter color and to see what type of flavor it imparts.

I wanted to spice with grains of paradise, and kaffir Lime leaves, but I can't source either locally, I have checked every middle eastern/mediterranean/Indian/african food shop in town, and can't find it plus the LHBS is out of the GP. So I think I'm gonna use some indian corriander, and a small amount of whole black peppercorns to see what happens. I was thinking ginger too, but I really don't know what type of spicing to go with, I hate black licorice, so star anise is out.

Anyhow, I would really appreciate any thoughts or advice form those of you that have brewed a Saison before.

Cheers!

 

[dwarven_stout]

Your recipe looks spot on. I recommend to everyone to leave out the spice on their first saison- the yeast is very characterful, and you'll better know what spices you want once you try it plain.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

This will be a 10 gallon batch, and I will split it, one spiced, the other not, and I will keg the first...first...

However, thank you for your suggestion, any suggestionson successful spicing you have attempted?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I just brewed a 10 gallon saison without spice.

20# Pilsner
4# Rye
3# Cane sugar
3 oz Magnum @ 60 min (42 IBU)
4 oz Saaz at flameout
WLP565 w/ 1.2L starter

Mash temp 148, ferment started at 72 degrees, ramped to 86 and held 3 weeks.
OG 1.067
FG 1.004

The WLP565 added PLENTY of spice to the beer. I definitely didn't feel like I needed to add anything at all.

 

[dwarven_stout]

I really like a very small amount of black pepper, so I think you're on the right track there. I do a saison with 1/4 tsp cracked pepper at flameout, and it's very nice. I did a dark saison with 1 gm each dried rosemary and cracked cardamom- they are on the edge of identification (interestingly, most people can only identify one or the other, not both). Ginger is great in saison- I prefer a small amount of powdered to fresh ginger. I wouldn't say coriander would be out of place, but I wouldn't put in anything like the 1oz that you would in say a wit.

The WLP565 added PLENTY of spice to the beer. I definitely didn't feel like I needed to add anything at all.

Well, that and the rye. Sounds like a tasty beer.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I really like a very small amount of black pepper, so I think you're on the right track there. I do a saison with 1/4 tsp cracked pepper at flameout, and it's very nice. I did a dark saison with 1 gm each dried rosemary and cracked cardamom- they are on the edge of identification (interestingly, most people can only identify one or the other, not both). Ginger is great in saison- I prefer a small amount of powdered to fresh ginger. I wouldn't say coriander would be out of place, but I wouldn't put in anything like the 1oz that you would in say a wit.


Well, that and the rye. Sounds like a tasty beer.

If I went the corrinader, the amount would be uber subtle, I figured the black pepper and corriander could mix well if done properly, but it would definitly be a balancing act, my thoughts were 1/4oz of corriander, and a dash of peppercorns inthe 10 gallon batch..I dunno?

 

[Mpavlik22]

I recommend to everyone to leave out the spice on their first saison- the yeast is very characterful, and you'll better know what spices you want once you try it plain.

I agree.

I mashed mine at 146 for 90 min. It fermented from 1.059 - 1.006 in about 8 days. I used WLP565. I fermented at a steady 86F for the 8 days.

This yeast created some awesome flavors. I will definitely be brewing this again.

 

[shanecb]

Your recipe is more or less spot on with my saison recipe. I agree about not actually spicing it to let the yeast shine through, but if you're splitting it for a comparison then that's a cool idea.

I definitely need to mention the yeast. There is a possibility the WLP565 won't get the job done by itself (though, of course, that's not ALWAYS the case). According to Chris White, that yeast is MEANT to be used with another yeast as it typically will not attenuate properly for a saison. It's a great yeast for the saison character, but not to drive it as dry as a saison should go.

I highly recommend getting their Saison II strain, WLP566, which is a platinum strain but, luckily for us, is out right now! It attenuates just fine by itself, and has an awesome fruity saison character. I keep some on slants actually so that it's available to me all year.

 

[nut4wine]

My first saison is still in the secondary, so I can't really comment on the recipe yet based upon any experience. However, I'll point out that Amazon has grains of paradise from several differerent sources.

 

[pkpdogg]

Sounds tasty! I have only brewed and consumed one 10gal batch (other is in primary), but I believe it's all about the yeast. I suggest doing a yeast starter to get an idea of the crazy fruit notes in WLP565, then finalize your recipe from there. Be sure to ramp up your temp from ~70-deg F to 85-deg F, in 1-2-deg increments per day, then hold at 85 for a couple weeks. While I didn't run into problems, I hear the pain points are stuck fermentations (usually from lack of temp control) and temp spikes that produce crazy off-flavors. Good luck!

 

[Hatchbrew]

Saisons are awesome for the summer time. usually brew mine between 1.035 & 1.040. Crisp, light, mellow carbonation, clean distinct flavors. Easy on the flavoring/spice ingredients. I like some juniper, thyme, ginger, and pepper.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I will have a 10 gallon batch that will be split, so I am going to definitely spice one, I actually picked up some Jaggery sugar yesterday, so I will be using that instead of the Piloncillo the recipe states.

I made a 2L starter yesterday, and ramped it up to 3L today, I will chill this one until brewday Sunday starting late tomorrow night, then I will make another starter for the second 5 gallon batch, the starter doesn't have the super bready smell like some of the other Belgian yeast strains, so I am excited to see what character this yeast will impart in the non-spiced version.

I also do have temp control, last brew I made was 10 gallons of "Kitchen Sink Kind-of-Kolsch" the recipe had a few grains that aren't quite to style, but I was trying to get rid of some of my extra vacuum sealed stuff that has been lying around and taking up room. It came out fantastic, very orangey. However, there isn't any orange in there at all. I have the other five gallons bulk aging in the ferm chamber right now at roughly 60°f, but that will be kegged before Sunday to make room for the Saisons.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I do have one disturbing piece of info though...there is a fungus gnat in my starter The starter has tons of yeast in there, so I hope that an infection doesn't take hold, damn fungus gnats! We have indoor plants, and if we leave the doors open for any amount of time we seem to get them in our plants. They are a nuisance...

Anyhow, I am RNWAHAHB