Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

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Id freeze with liquid nitrogen. But wear gloves. BTW, Im a displaced Beantowner, I miss the sox but not the shoveling.

Good luck, Im subscribed!
 
I also think some dry ice in a cooler will be the way to go. You can use a couple liters of cheap vodka as a heat transfer media between the dry ice and your pot.

This should be interesting.
 
I'm pretty sure you'll def need to use the dry ice to get down to the temps you need to freeze the beer. Sounds like an awesome project.
 
wait, doesn't it get cold in asston?

the one time my uncle made an eisbock, he put the corney outside in the middle of January. only took and hour or so before he had a solid "ice jacket" on the inside walls of the corney. he then racked it to a second corney.
 
The thing about freezing a corny is that the dip tube will probably freeze solid so any chance of getting the liquid out of the bottom won't happen. I've seen how a corny splits at the seams from freezing too.
 
DakotaRules said:
The thing about freezing a corny is that the dip tube will probably freeze solid so any chance of getting the liquid out of the bottom won't happen. I've seen how a corny splits at the seams from freezing too.
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Well the idea is to just let it partially freeze, not to let it freeze solid
 
yeah, i'm pretty sure that is somewhat common practice, and he didn't make it up.

obviously you'll have to pay attention to it. not sure if cape has the necessary attention span.
 
Vodka will definitely freeze at dry ice temps. You will need to use acetone. It will say in liquid form at dry ice temps. Look up drew beechum's champagne beer specifically how he froze the neck to get the yeast out. A few seconds in dry ice will freeze it solid.

For the hatred of all things New England, be careful.
 
Hmm, seems to be some controversy in this thread. Shall we make it interesting and do an epic beer showdown? Here I'll start:

My Epic Stout > your wimpy Utopeisbier (tm?).

:D
 
This is way out of my league. But seems like the best way to avoid malted syrup after freezing is to make the overall percentage of adjunct sugars high.
 
2wide said:
This is way out of my league. But seems like the best way to avoid malted syrup after freezing is to make the overall percentage of adjunct sugars high.
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I have had the same thought and alluded to that earler about getting the monstrosity to really dry out. I would love to know if BrewDog went this route. I would also be really interested if any of Brewdog's really big beers (Bismark and History) are actually drinkable. I don't know if they were simply shooting for ABV or ABV with something that was actually drinkable... Those are two very different things.

I would like to do this because I think the simple experimentation and learnig process would be worth the effort... but... I really WOULD like to be able to enjoy it when it is done.

I'm torn on this "syrupy" issue. Part of me thinks simply taking 50% of the water out HAS to make it, basically, thicker. Another part if me think since you'll be making the alchohol as a percentage of volume so much higher, it would offset that and keep it "thin".

We'll see. I think it'll be interestng nonetheless.

Brewing the IIIPA starter tomorrow and I already have everything to do my first U batch
 
SG of alcohol is 0.787. Having 40% of that should thin your syrup out pretty well.

How thick do you anticipate it to freeze down to? I just did a mini experiment. I heated an asston of sugar in not so much water on the stove, chilled it, and added water until my hydrometer would almost sink. Estimated gravity of 1.130 to 1.140 as my hydrometer measures up to 1.120 and I didn't feel like adding more water. We are going for extremes right? I measured out 1.6oz of 75.5% alcohol and topped up to 4oz with the sugar solution. This measured at 1.040. I added almost another ounce of the 75.5% alcohol to bring the total alcohol up to around 40% which brought the gravity of the solution down to around 1.010.

I think you are going to be fine.
 
Awesome, thanks for the experiment! I figured that would be the case but didn't have any evidence other than my gut.

I was doing it either way but this is really helpful. Thanks again
 
Cape Brewing said:
And I dunno... can you really pull almost 70% of the water out of a beer by freezing??
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I've done a freeze concentration once on a 11% and change braggot...turned three 22 oz bombers into a single one, so I know at least a 66% concentration is possible...I estimated my final at ~34%.

To answer one of the OP's other questions, yes, the final product will be a little thicker in mouthfeel, but I didn't find the one I did syrupy. It was actually quite good, if not a bit sweet...it was kind of like a cordial (and of course, had to be drank like one due to the ABV!)
 
After I do mine I am going to try to get a university lab to test the before and after ABV content. Hopefully I can get that done, and we will see how accurate everyone is in their testing, by comparing these formulas thrown around to the actual percentage. I am also interested in how accurate the formula is by using the OG and FG to get ABV in normal beers.
 
just wondering, would you use the 099 super high gravity yeast on the IIPA even if you werent doing the barley brandy? What are your experiences with that strain
 
No, probably not. I always just use US-05 on that IPA and have never had and issue with it finishing. I have used 099 a couple of times with pretty solid resukts. It is a pretty clean yeast. That said, I've never pushed it like I'm talking about with this experiment
 
biochemedic said:
I've done a freeze concentration once on a 11% and change braggot...turned three 22 oz bombers into a single one, so I know at least a 66% concentration is possible...I estimated my final at ~34%.

To answer one of the OP's other questions, yes, the final product will be a little thicker in mouthfeel, but I didn't find the one I did syrupy. It was actually quite good, if not a bit sweet...it was kind of like a cordial (and of course, had to be drank like one due to the ABV!)
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The problem is that as you freeze concentrate around 0F you start losing alcohol with the water that freezes. Every pass takes more alcohol with the water. You will still concentrate the liquid down and increase the ABV to an extent but you start having diminishing returns once you hit around 20%. The lower temp you freeze at, the fewer passes you need to take and the less alcohol will come out with the water.

To the OP -- something to think about when you concentrate that much is all the unintended things you are going to concentrate. Any minerals in the water you use will be concentrated and reach the threshold to be detected as flavors. Over time it seems to become worse. So you will definitely want to use as clean of a water as you can without messing up the mash.
 
ODaniel said:
After I do mine I am going to try to get a university lab to test the before and after ABV content. Hopefully I can get that done, and we will see how accurate everyone is in their testing, by comparing these formulas thrown around to the actual percentage. I am also interested in how accurate the formula is by using the OG and FG to get ABV in normal beers.
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I see no reason why you couldn't get accurate ABV readings with a 0.01g triple beam balance and a pycnometer...
 
ReverseApacheMaster said:
To the OP -- something to think about when you concentrate that much is all the unintended things you are going to concentrate. Any minerals in the water you use will be concentrated and reach the threshold to be detected as flavors. Over time it seems to become worse. So you will definitely want to use as clean of a water as you can without messing up the mash.
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I recently received a full water report on my water and it is fairly low across the board in terms of minerals so I don't think it'll be a problem altough it is a good point. That said, given what this would likely ultimately taste like, I don't know that anyone would be able to pick out those kind of flavors.

Unfortunately the day got away from me yesterday and I didnt get a chance to get the IIIPA done... Which... Is probably a good thing because now I can build up the 099 starter even more before throwing that to the sugar-wolves.
 
this.... this is awesome.

have you read the article in BYO magazine where the guy brewed and all grain beer at 20+ ABV? he brewed a super high grav wort (over 1.2 if i remember correctly) and canned it in canning jars. then he made a 1 gallon starter in his primary, and added 1 gallon of his super high grav wort at a time. it makes sense because a super high grav environment stresses the yeast too much, and staggering the wort additions keeps the gravity relatively low and keeps the yeast active.

i may have to try an eisbeir next winter. MN winters dip well below -20 F on a regular basis.
 
Cape Brewing said:
1090 IIIPA done. I am gonna pitch US-05 so I have that huge initial yeast cake and I am going to keep building up my 099 starter.
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1.090 does not warrant the extra "I".

i'll give you this cape - one thing i like about you is the extreme lack of time between talk and action.

also, babalu's "dahkness" turned out fantastic.
 
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have 2 (probably very dumb) questions, that are "somehow" on topic:

1. For what I read (zero personal experience here), after eisbocking, the resulting beer has little to no hop flavor. How do you get the 240 IBU?

2. Also for what I read, an IPA is an India Pale Ale. A IIPA is an Imperial IPA. What does the third "I" stand for? "Intense"?:confused:
 
Not to burst a bubble (because I do think this is cool and maybe possible), but I think there might be some legal issues here. Freeze distilling is still home distilling which is generally a felony. Granted, the federal government DOES allow you to distill, but the final product volume is about a gallon I think. Officer Joe Schmoe with his GED may not know this and bust your face with a baton and throw you in a slammer.

Ice distilling is the original form of distillation and is actually very old. Now in your case, the flavor might be a little different...
 
TastySalmon said:
Not to burst a bubble (because I do think this is cool and maybe possible), but I think there might be some legal issues here. Freeze distilling is still home distilling which is generally a felony.
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According to TTB information that was provided to Basic Brewing Radio, they don't consider freezing a form of distillation (which it is not) and don't have a problem with it.

I think you are more likely to be arrested for having a wort chiller than a gallon of beer in the freezer.
 
ArcaneXor said:
According to TTB information that was provided to Basic Brewing Radio, they don't consider freezing a form of distillation (which it is not) and don't have a problem with it.

I think you are more likely to be arrested for having a wort chiller than a gallon of beer in the freezer.
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+1 that's where I heard it.
 
ArcaneXor said:
According to TTB information that was provided to Basic Brewing Radio, they don't consider freezing a form of distillation (which it is not) and don't have a problem with it.

I think you are more likely to be arrested for having a wort chiller than a gallon of beer in the freezer.
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In the UK, authorities generally turn a blind eye to it anyway, providing you're not going all homer simpson beer baron and selling it or producing large quantities. This info came from the body that governs it too, so don't worry too much.

Also, it's definitely possible, so good luck! :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-Sink-The-Bismarck-goes-sale-55-bottle.html
 
TastySalmon said:
Not to burst a bubble (because I do think this is cool and maybe possible), but I think there might be some legal issues here. Freeze distilling is still home distilling which is generally a felony. Granted, the federal government DOES allow you to distill, but the final product volume is about a gallon I think. Officer Joe Schmoe with his GED may not know this and bust your face with a baton and throw you in a slammer.

Ice distilling is the original form of distillation and is actually very old. Now in your case, the flavor might be a little different...
Click to expand...

Freeze CONCENTRATION is not illegal. Nor is it the same thing as distillation.
 

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