Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

[Yunus]

i think he meant it regarding the fact that freeze distillation also concentrates bad things like methanol. not that I think there's a good chance of you going blind.

Concentrating perhaps but it's not adding any quantity not already in the mix. The only danger would be if the freezing point of methanol is lower than ethanol in which case you would be concentrating methanol more so than ethanol.

In any case, just have some vodka handy during the test. If your not sure, start drinking vodka. Ethanol is processed the same as methanol by your body and it can only do so much at one time.

Seriously though, I'm not a doctor but that's what I have been told is the treatment and I'm sure they will charge you more than top shelf vodka to give you an IV of an ethanol solution.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Maybe I'm being nieve but I'm not too worried as this is the same method that BrewDog has used to get their beers up off the charts and End of History is 55% ABV. They sell it and again, maybe I'm being nieve but I am assuming they wouldn't be selling something that could kill people.

Unless they're scrubbing methanol out of it somehow and I don't think they are.

 

[Yunus]

Maybe I'm being nieve but I'm not too worried as this is the same method that BrewDog has used to get their beers up off the charts and End of History is 55% ABV. They sell it and again, maybe I'm being nieve but I am assuming they wouldn't be selling something that could kill people.

Unless they're scrubbing methanol out of it somehow and I don't think they are.

They are probably not scrubbing it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they send out a sample to have it lab tested to verify.

 

[motobrewer]

Maybe I'm being nieve but I'm not too worried as this is the same method that BrewDog has used to get their beers up off the charts and End of History is 55% ABV. They sell it and again, maybe I'm being nieve but I am assuming they wouldn't be selling something that could kill people.

Unless they're scrubbing methanol out of it somehow and I don't think they are.

i don't think there's anything at all to worry about, personally. other people may and will disagree.

 

[BrewsCampbell]

Methanol is not produced during beer fermentation.

Therefore freeze distillation will not be concentrating something that's not there.

Yay for not going blind!

 

[motobrewer]

Methanol is not produced during beer fermentation.

Therefore freeze distillation will not be concentrating something that's not there.

Yay for not going blind!

i'm pretty sure this post is entirely, 100%, false.

i have nothing to back this up.

 

[wooda2008]

Grain distillers have to throw away the "heads" of a run because it's methanol.

Just sayin'

 

[Nashbrewer]

This about wine which on average has more methanol produced than beer:

The lethal dose of methanol is at least 100 ml that is equal to about 80000 mg or you need 27000 liters of mash at least to get that amount.

http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol

You would have to do some serious brewing and concentrating to get a dangerous level.

 

[Cape Brewing]

And just for the record, I did NOT mash 27,000 liters.

... before anyone asks.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

But you probably could have...

 

[the_bird]

... but for that, you would need....

MEGATUN to the rescue!!!




...

 

[iaefebs]

i think he meant it regarding the fact that freeze distillation also concentrates bad things like methanol. not that I think there's a good chance of you going blind.

Then just drink it till you need glasses?:cross:

 

[Cape Brewing]

MEGATUN!!!!!! Able to mash over 27,000 liters in a single sitting!!!!!!!

too funny... I want to know where Paul even got that outfit.

 

[bottlebomber]

MEGATUN!!!!!! Able to mash over 27,000 liters in a single sitting!!!!!!!

too funny... I want to know where Paul even got that outfit.

You're not supposed to reveal his secret identity. Anyway when you accompany him in your ASSTUN costume at least we will know who is who

 

[Cape Brewing]

Nah... it'll take too long to pull that costume out. I'm kinda busy right now... waiting for the water temps to equalize in this fermenter and watching it not ferment.

 

[bottlebomber]

*******

 

[Cape Brewing]

LOL. Tell me somethin' I don't know.



I'll take another gravity reading and a taste in a couple of days and put up an update in case anyone is actually interested.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

The dynamic duo, MegaTun, and his sidekick, AssTun. Able to mash 27,000 liters by sitting on it, and brew not so high gravity ass beer. That's gotta become a reality TV show.

 

[Apendecto]

LOL. Tell me somethin' I don't know.



I'll take another gravity reading and a taste in a couple of days and put up an update in case anyone is actually interested.

I'm curious if this ***** takes off.

 

[DannyD]

"insert picture of man beating horse here"
but would it not be easier to brew like a 1.080 and then just ice the **** out of it (literally and figuratively)For someone that has not yet F'd-up there experement yet?
i would like to try that but would it be the same?

 

[DannyD]

Then just drink it till you need glasses?:cross:

risky!!!! especialy considering the "OTHER" thing that also makes you blind might also be "in play" (pan intended)

 

[Cape Brewing]

"insert picture of man beating horse here"
but would it not be easier to brew like a 1.080 and then just ice the **** out of it (literally and figuratively)For someone that has not yet F'd-up there experement yet?
i would like to try that but would it be the same?

It wouldn't remotely be the same. Under your scenario, you are fermenting 1.080 wort. Under what I have done here, I am fermenting 1.080 wort.... that was already 17% alcohol to start with.

 

[motobrewer]

why don't you make an IPA? that's an awesome beer.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Cant. Outta beano

 

[DannyD]

It wouldn't remotely be the same. Under your scenario, you are fermenting 1.080 wort. Under what I have done here, I am fermenting 1.080 wort.... that was already 17% alcohol to start with.

Ok but your aiming for a 50% yield, what if I make a 5 gallon(1.080) batch and aim for like 10 % yield after ice? (thats like 8-9 abv X 5) would it not just be the same.

 

[Cape Brewing]

It might I guess. It remains to be seen how much the freeze concentration process and bring down the volumn but like we were theorizing earlier, it should be ABV driving the limit of how much you can concentrate it, not volume so... maybe I guess.


and one note... I wouldn't pay attention to the "50%"... that keeps getting brought up and that was simply a rough target I threw out there a while ago. I am going to freeze concentrate it as much as I can and now that i've diluted the beer, that "50%" number went out the window.

 

[wagz]

Not sure how you plan to freeze concentrate it, but I saw in the thread at some point someone suggested using a corny then pushing the non-frozen liquid out with pressure.
This past weekend I was playing around a bit, and tried that with a 10% Barleywine.
As the Beer froze, it basically turned in to a slush, so there wasn't a nice layer of ice crystals on the top and beer on the bottom. When putting it under gas, the ice/slush clogged the diptube/poppet. I even cranked up the PSI to around 25, nothing. (I had the corny sitting in a chest freezer, for a couple hours. I may not have waited long enough for the ice to surface, just my experience yours or others may differ)
I would recommend pouring the slush through a paint strainer bag, or some other large strainer.

 

[Cape Brewing]

That's exactly how I was going to do it. I was too nervous about the dip tube clogging so I had planned on using the large five gallon paint strainers I use for hop additions (a clean one)

 

[iaefebs]

To get you below the top layer of ice. I wonder if you use a cut down beer out tube, on the gas in side. Or is it the other way around? The Alchohol is lighter so the ice is at the bottom. Then leaving the gas in alone and shortening the liquid out to get above the ice level.?

 

[the_bird]

That's exactly how I was going to do it. I was too nervous about the dip tube clogging so I had planned on using the large five gallon paint strainers I use for hop additions (a clean one)

What about oxidation? Or, you just not going to stress about that at this point?

 

[bottlebomber]

Is oxidation even a factor with that high of an alcohol content? I thought alcohol would protect it from oxidizing...

 

[the_bird]

Well, as one example, sherry is a heavily oxidized, fortified wine. Pretty sure sherry tends to run around 20% ABV, and heavy oxidation is part of its character.

 

[BryanThompson]

You don't worry about a bourbon oxidixing though.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I am not going to pour it through a paint strainer but rather... kinda the other way around. I was going to place the paint strainer in a sanitized pot and then gently rack the beer into it. I'll then freeze the pot for a short period of time and then very slowly lift the bag out.

I'm hoping that will cut down on oxidation... assuming it doesn't still taste like wet cardboard from the last O2 infusion I did.

 

[motobrewer]

who doesn't???

all liquors certainly do. there's this notion of scotch/whiskey/bourbon/etc that it'll keep forever once opened.

they certainly don't go south like wines do. but, they certainly oxidize. they start to lose a bit of definition, things (especially the nose) gets real muted.

 

[keesh]

who doesn't???

all liquors certainly do. there's this notion of scotch/whiskey/bourbon/etc that it'll keep forever once opened.

they certainly don't go south like wines do. but, they certainly oxidize. they start to lose a bit of definition, things (especially the nose) gets real muted.

Yeah this is very true, oxidation isn't restricted by some magical cutoff number of ABV. You can certainly oxidize hard liquor, like you are saying, so it is certainly possible to oxidize a high gravity beer.

 

[Cape Brewing]

1.015!!!!!!

and cardboard oxidation is gone!

LOL. Too funny.

Swear on my two sons' eyes. 1.015. Just took a gravity and tasted the sample.

I have to do some math and calc out what the ABV is.

 

[Cape Brewing]

5 gallons at 1.200... diluted to about 8... gives me an adjusted OG of about 1.125.

1.125 fermented down to 1.015 gives me 15% ABV for the whole 8 gallons.

Next step is to start icing this bad larry down

 

[bottlebomber]

Nice! When it's all done you need to send a bottle to those of us who's faith in you never wavered

 

[Cape Brewing]

LOL... Send me the list of those folks and it'll be in the mail.

Now I'm antsy as a mutha to start icing it to see how that works.