At a brewing crossroads

[Grannyknot]

A bit of a rant, but also looking for advice on where to go from here.

I've been brewing for about 6 years now. Probably have about 75 brew days logged. I've only dumped 1 beer that was actually drinkable, but had some fusels that I just couldn't get past. Some beers have been good, some not so good. Occasionally I make a good beer that people compliment. I have a decent amount of equipment, including a nice large kettle, big burner, 10gal mash tun, pump, & nice plate chiller. Have a really nice fridge with 3 taps.

But I'm just not happy. I can't get any real consistency, my ipas frequently lack aroma & hop character and taste rather plain. Darker beers frequently have overly roasty flavors, although I sometimes get it right. I've done the water report thing. Read all sorts of books. Changed my procedures 1 step at a time. Took notes. I'm obviously overly critical of my own beers, but I'm just not crazy about what I'm producing.

Here's the thing....I started brewing for the wrong reason. I brewed, partly because it was interesting at first, but also because it made craft beer cheap. Hard to believe, but I have actually saved money. So, I've saved money, but at the cost of quality. I just can't seem to get anywhere near the quality of production beer. Obviously I don't expect to be reproducing a pliney clone every brew day, but at least some consistency with something I consider "good".

The crossroads I'm at is that the cost of making my beer better is substantial. Probably double the cost of what I've currently got invested. So down 1 road is more or less a lifetime commitment to homebrewing due to the massive expense I would get hit with. Down another road is to sell off everything I've got, maybe keep the kegerator for some commercial kegs, and most likely drink a lot less beer. Then there is a third road that I've thought about which is doing all wild/sour/funk beers that I love, but are really too expensive to buy at the stores.

I'm also starting to wonder if drinking 2+ beers a day for the rest of my life is really good for me. It sure would be nice to NOT be tempted to kill a homebrew as soon as I get home, and be able to wait until a weekend or special occasion to pull a bottle of sour funk from the cellar to enjoy in moderation.

I don't really know if I've explained myself well at all. Just looking for similar experiences, advice, motivation, a kick in the nuts, whatever you have to offer...

 

[Remmy]

One of the parts about brewing I love most (besides drinking 10+ beers during a brew session) is trying to get better at making beer and my process.

If my IPAs lack flavor or aroma, I try different techniques and hop varieties/amounts the next time I brew without drastically changing the grain bill of that specific beer. Then, if the beer turns-out great, I know how to correct the initial problem if it ever happens again.

I drink a lot of beer but I also stay in shape. The problem with drinking so much is not necessarily putting on weight, because, thankfully, I haven't had that problem. But it's more so the fact that I'll have other health issues besides that, specifically as it relates to my internal organs.

RDWHAHB

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Well, I can't help you decide what you need to do but I can share my experience.

I started out over a decade ago. Had lots of fun playing with recipes, building new and improved rigs, and adapting from bottles to kegs. Had some struggle early on with water chemistry and worked through that to the point that I was happy with everything I produced. Switched my focus to reproduction and bought into a Brew-Magic. Relearned how to brew on the new rig to the point I was happy with what came out and could reproduce it.

And then just got flat out bored with brewing and all the cleaning it requires. I plan to hand the rig down to one of my sons when the time comes. Until then I brew periodically but mostly just buy beer at the local bottle shop. Have probly only brewed about 5 times in the last couple years and even then at least 2 of those were extract kits.

 

[brewing_clown]

I've done the water report thing. Read all sorts of books. Changed my procedures 1 step at a time.

What did the report say? What did you change?

Changing to reverse osmosis water caused a big improvement for me because of the high alkalinity of my water.

 

[iijakii]

Well, I can't help you decide what you need to do but I can share my experience.

I started out over a decade ago. Had lots of fun playing with recipes, building new and improved rigs, and adapting from bottles to kegs. Had some struggle early on with water chemistry and worked through that to the point that I was happy with everything I produced. Switched my focus to reproduction and bought into a Brew-Magic. Relearned how to brew on the new rig to the point I was happy with what came out and could reproduce it.

And then just got flat out bored with brewing and all the cleaning it requires. I plan to hand the rig down to one of my sons when the time comes. Until then I brew periodically but mostly just buy beer at the local bottle shop. Have probly only brewed about 5 times in the last couple years and even then at least 2 of those were extract kits.

I'm getting into the same boat with a nice E-HERMS rig. Sick of cleaning, hassling with pumps and hoses etc. I still brew more than that, but I'm trying to sell it and go back to BIAB. I'm planning the easiest-cleaning system I can. Gonna go to a conical so i don't have to worry about siphons and cleaning as much stuff there. Then back to kegging but mount flow-control Perlicks right on the posts so I don't have beer line etc to clean. Hope it works out as planned. I'll have to rig up one of those keg washers since cleaning kegs is one of the worst things.

 

[blizz81]

Everyone's story is different, obviously.


For me, my brewing motivation is driven by one part social (A), one part that I/we prefer bigger/flavorful beers (B).


(A) in that it's generally been a three-person operation. Our brewing has shut down for months (and at one point a few years) at a time when one or more of the people involved lost enthusiasm for whatever reason. In this most recent revival from the period of a few years' slumber, a new third came along with interest that sparked me into making the equipment changes I had previously dreamed up a reality (bottom-draining RIMS mash keggle). Two years later, enthusiasm is still high as we've been riding a wave of hitting numbers and generally succeeding at what we've set out to make.

We get a few others that come over for brew days here and there outside of the core three. If it was less of a social thing and more of a "job", it would probably taper off some. (As is we don't brew terribly often, probably an average of 12 batches a year pace)

(B) The commercial beers that I like to drink the most are either things that range from limited / seasonal releases to very limited / one-time releases, and even if they are more regular, are generally expensive. So it's nice to have the ability to cook up something similar and to have a cache of it. Brewing to save money is as you mention somewhat of a fool's errand - that said, even keeping in mind equipment costs, if I wanted 32 bombers of Goose Island Bourbon County Vanilla Rye, it would cost a lot more than what even a somewhat-pricey materials bill is for a 5gal clone-ish version.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

The crossroads I'm at is that the cost of making my beer better is substantial. Probably double the cost of what I've currently got invested.

How do you figure? Based on your equipment list, the only thing you're missing is a fermentation fridge and temp controller. That's easily less than $150 for a cheap fridge off craigslist and a controller.

If your water sucks, and you don't want to buy an RO system, you can get filtered water pretty cheap at the grocery store.

All the rest of the bling doesn't matter. I'm not sure why you say it's so costly to make better beer?

 

[55x11]

A bit of a rant, but also looking for advice on where to go from here.

I've been brewing for about 6 years now. Probably have about 75 brew days logged. I've only dumped 1 beer that was actually drinkable, but had some fusels that I just couldn't get past. Some beers have been good, some not so good. Occasionally I make a good beer that people compliment. I have a decent amount of equipment, including a nice large kettle, big burner, 10gal mash tun, pump, & nice plate chiller. Have a really nice fridge with 3 taps.

But I'm just not happy. I can't get any real consistency, my ipas frequently lack aroma & hop character and taste rather plain. Darker beers frequently have overly roasty flavors, although I sometimes get it right. I've done the water report thing. Read all sorts of books. Changed my procedures 1 step at a time. Took notes. I'm obviously overly critical of my own beers, but I'm just not crazy about what I'm producing.

Here's the thing....I started brewing for the wrong reason. I brewed, partly because it was interesting at first, but also because it made craft beer cheap. Hard to believe, but I have actually saved money. So, I've saved money, but at the cost of quality. I just can't seem to get anywhere near the quality of production beer. Obviously I don't expect to be reproducing a pliney clone every brew day, but at least some consistency with something I consider "good".

The crossroads I'm at is that the cost of making my beer better is substantial. Probably double the cost of what I've currently got invested. So down 1 road is more or less a lifetime commitment to homebrewing due to the massive expense I would get hit with. Down another road is to sell off everything I've got, maybe keep the kegerator for some commercial kegs, and most likely drink a lot less beer. Then there is a third road that I've thought about which is doing all wild/sour/funk beers that I love, but are really too expensive to buy at the stores.

I'm also starting to wonder if drinking 2+ beers a day for the rest of my life is really good for me. It sure would be nice to NOT be tempted to kill a homebrew as soon as I get home, and be able to wait until a weekend or special occasion to pull a bottle of sour funk from the cellar to enjoy in moderation.

I don't really know if I've explained myself well at all. Just looking for similar experiences, advice, motivation, a kick in the nuts, whatever you have to offer...

I think your perspective is wrong to begin with.
You should remember (or remind yourself constantly) that brewing at home brings in 1) experimental/learning part that is impossible to duplicate 2) Pride in making something by yourself, from scratch.
Even if it's not perfect, it means you learning something. It's never ending path, it's the journey not destination that is important.

I think focusing on costs per bottle or whatever is the wrong attitude to have. Yes you may save some money if you look at cost of ingredients, but your time is the biggest investment, so unless you value it at <$20 an hour, your home-brew is prohibitively expensive. But it's a hobby, so who cares!

It's similar to people who garden - yes, they can buy produce a LOT cheaper in the store or at farmers market. But they like to know they grew something themselves. My wife is into gardening and night creatures eat most of it anyways (raccoons most likely) and it does not deter her one bit, even though it is frustrating. It's equivalent to me breaking 30-40 bottles of beer out 50, every single batch.

Think of carpenters or other similar hobby. Yes, they can buy wood furniture or whatever, but they enjoy making it themselves, to their specs/taste, etc. Pride of a job well done.

If I were to suggest one thing (which I have not tried myself yet) - have you considered doing collaborative brewing with other brewers? Or maybe teach how to brew to someone new to this - a neighbor or a friend, or family member?

I think a lot of us have pretty high standards that we hold ourselves to. Some of my beers I am happy with at first, but as I go through the batch I start to focus on all the things that are slightly imperfect. But to many non-brewers it's all great. Or perhaps, even if the beer is perfect otherwise, they just don't like the style - some hate IPAs, all of them, some don't get saisons, some don't like 9-10% beers, fine. But in either case, it has little to do with the things I obsess about most of the time, or strive to improve. Getting that mentality back can help a great deal in enjoying brewing, I think.

Finally, I always have some commercial beers to drink, in addition to my own home-brew. It's important to keep that perspective, but avoid direct comparisons.

 

[hunter_le five]

How do you figure? Based on your equipment list, the only thing you're missing is a fermentation fridge and temp controller. That's easily less than $150 for a cheap fridge off craigslist and a controller.

If your water sucks, and you don't want to buy an RO system, you can get filtered water pretty cheap at the grocery store.

All the rest of the bling doesn't matter. I'm not sure why you say it's so costly to make better beer?

This. As long as you have good temperature control (particularly over fermentation temperature), even a very simple system can make good beer.

 

[55x11]

How do you figure? Based on your equipment list, the only thing you're missing is a fermentation fridge and temp controller. That's easily less than $150 for a cheap fridge off craigslist and a controller.

If your water sucks, and you don't want to buy an RO system, you can get filtered water pretty cheap at the grocery store.

All the rest of the bling doesn't matter. I'm not sure why you say it's so costly to make better beer?

I agree. It seems temp control may be crucial, but it's not super expensive, you can get it for ~$300 new or half of that if used.

You don't need sculptures or electric brew kettles or anything similarly "fancy".

 

[oujens]

Many great points listed above. I've had similar experiences. I think I've found the biggest improvements in making consistent beer for me have been controlling fermentation temp, yeast starter, using RO water and measuring pH. I also recently invested in a grain mill to help with efficiency issues. I have the basic 5 gallon all grain set up with the 10 gallon cooler mash tun. No fancy rig. I have found a lot of my discouragement and problems have come from making the whole process too complicated. I'm obsessing over recipes and equipment, being too critical of my beer, and trying to make recipes too complex. I stepped back and brewed a couple simple recipes on this site and was amazed at how great the beer turned out. Also, I found that while I was critical of my beers, other people genuinely enjoyed them. My advice:

1) Simplify your process and/or recipes - Make a basic recipe (plenty on this site) and determine that your process, brewing water or some other factor is not to blame. Once you have it all set, alter these recipes to make it your own.

2) Learn to not be overly critical. Is the beer good? Is it drinkable? Do your friends and family like it (don't ask the BMC guy)? That is all that matters. Trial and error from there will get you to where you want to go. Personally, I've tasted worse commercial products than my perceived worst batch of home brew.

3) Have fun. What I learned from simplifying everything is that I just enjoy the process. I think its fun. I enjoy sharing the stories on this website and laughing with everyone who share the same experiences. Most importantly, its an escape from the redundancy of life.

Perhaps you should evaluate your reason for brewing beer. If its to save money on the perfect pint, you might be in it for the wrong reason. I enjoy learning something new and making something that can be enjoyed by others. A sense of pride comes along with that, but mostly its enjoyment and a chance to bond with friends and family.

 

[Rhumbline]

I'd brew the largest batch you can of a particular style, break it up into several smaller batches, and treat each with different hops, yeast, etc. See if something good comes out of it.

You can also try to eliminate as many variables as you can. Try using RO water from the grocery store. Do small identical batches using maybe three different water profiles.

 

[soccerdad]

GK - I could have wriiten part of that first paragraph

I've been brewing for about 6 years now. Probably have about 75 brew days logged. I've only dumped 1 beer that was actually drinkable, but had some fusels that I just couldn't get past.

But let me ask ...

The crossroads I'm at is that the cost of making my beer better is substantial. Probably double the cost of what I've currently got invested.

Why?? What would the investment be? Ferm control? Grain management and crush?

One thing that helped me was when a club member ( a very good and highly decorated brewer) suggested to me that I focus on one or two beers that I like .. get those nailed down and keep a supply of them. Then move on to a new style. I had been bouncing from a pale ale to a dunkel to a hefe to an IPA to whatever. I have since perfected (sorta kinda) 3 beers ... a rye ale, a farmhouse ale, and a golden ale. I can make those consistently well and they taste good. Now I'm working on a west coast pale ale. When I get that right I will have four solid beers that I know will turn out well. From there .... who knows .. I like all styles

I do this with a minimal investment .. my ferm chamber runs on ice blocks, I hand crank my grain mill, I mash in a bag, and I often no-chill.

 

[NickTheGreat]

I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about, but are you changing too much?

I mean, an Olympic swimmer doesn't change up his routine much. Once you've got the basics and more (equip, water, temp control, cooling, etc) covered, maybe you just are needing to practice. As in, maybe there's something you haven't realized was an issue because you were always trying different malts or dry hopping techniques, and the issue was a dirty mash tun?

Just thinking out loud more than anything.

 

[madscientist451]

Some beers have been good, some not so good. Occasionally I make a good beer that people compliment. I have a decent amount of equipment, including a nice large kettle, big burner, 10gal mash tun, pump, & nice plate chiller. Have a really nice fridge with 3 taps.

But I'm just not happy. I can't get any real consistency, my ipas frequently lack aroma & hop character and taste rather plain.

The crossroads I'm at is that the cost of making my beer better is substantial. Probably double the cost of what I've currently got invested. It sure would be nice to NOT be tempted to kill a homebrew as soon as I get home, and be able to wait until a weekend or special occasion to pull a bottle of sour funk from the cellar to enjoy in moderation.

I edited down your rant and I'll comment on the things few things that are above:
" Some beers good, some not so good." That happens to everyone, even the pros.
Can you do a rebrew and reproduce the good beers you've made? If you can't why not? What is going wrong? Can you pinpoint the problems in your less quality beers? Are you following established recipes, or making up your own? Do you have fun trying to reproduce the good beers and then drinking them? If not, maybe give brewing a break for a while.

"My IPA's lack aroma, hop character and taste rather plain"
What kind of IPA's do you like? Make a clone recipe of your favorite IPA and take your version and the commercial example to your local brew club and ask for some feedback. Where are your hops coming from? How are you storing them? Have you tried Ballast
Point Sculpin? Make a clone of that. There's even a youtube video done at the brewery that shows how they do it. If you follow what they do and your beer lacks hop character, flavor and aroma, maybe you just have different tastes? (its ok, everyone has different tastes)

"the cost of making my beer better is substantial"
How do you figure that? Not really enough information on that one to comment on. You don't have to spend a lot of money to make great beer.

"enjoy in moderation"
I'd say that 2 beers a day is enjoying in moderation. But if you think that's too much, give it a rest for a while.
I get bored with brewing sometimes, that's why I grow hops, make cider and wine, I'm planting a small vinyard and orchard, but also go skiing, play music, travel a lot, go to brew clubs, camping, the beach, have multiple sour beer projects going, so don't really have time to be all that bored with any one thing. If you don't want to brew for now, give it a rest and come back to it later. Good Luck and cheers!!

 

[Mylo]

Everyone is chasing the consistency dragon. Some are better at it than others. Eliminating variability is the key concept there. There are two main factors that contribute to success in brewing. There are recipe issues, and process issues. Let's eliminate the recipe issues first. There are a ton of great, tried and true recipes out there for you to brew. Brewing Classic Styles is one of them. If you pick, for instance, the IPA recipe out of there and can't get a decent product - then you must have process issues.

Some thoughts:
1) Sanitation - that's at given. I assume you are cleaning and sanitizing your equipment properly
2) Ferm temp control - lots of inroads to consistently better beer if you employ this. There are low tech/low cost options - but they don't eliminate enough variability for me. Get a chest freezer or old fridge off Craigslist, and put a digital temp probe on there. Don't let the probe dangle in the air. Either insulate it from ambient against the side of the carboy, or get a thermowell. Your yeast will thank you with better beer.
3) Pitch the right amount of healthy, viable yeast. Use the Mr. Malty calculator religiously. Make starters. Add the correct amount of O2 at pitch time.
4) Get the freshest/best handled ingredients out there. Fresh extract or grain. Fresh hops that have been stored in a cold, oxygen free environment. Fresh yeast.
5) Finally, take copious notes. How can you repeat something if you don't know what you did, or what happened.

You don't need to do multi-step mashes with most of the recipes out there. Keep it simple. Once you workout your process variables, then you can start experimenting with crafting your own recipes.


Mylo

 

[Rhumbline]

As far as being over critical, I found when I first started I was very critical of my brew. I imagined all sorts of strange flavors but then I realized that I wasn't applying the same standards to commercial brews.

When I tasted them with the same critical eye as my own brews I realized that mine were pretty good after all.

 

[jwalk4]

One important factor I noticed missing from OP was striving for consistency.

He said he has the equip, and has made some good beers, but it doesn't seem like he's found at least 1 good recipe, maybe one that friends and family have enjoyed, that he can stick with, and brew consistently. Once you have a good beer on your hands, then move onto the next style/experiment.

As for feeling like you need a beer at the end of the day, again I turn to consistency for the answer. So often homebrewers will hang about their taps, wanting to try a sample of how it tastes now, compared to yesterday, last week, etc. Once you can stick to one, maybe two, good recipes, you'll find the desire to sample diminishes quickly.

 

[joshesmusica]

I agree with what's been said here, and maybe you're bored with this thread and that's why you haven't come back to reply to any of these suggestions...

I think if you don't have a fermentation chamber, that's gotta be your first step. I don't see how you could've been going this long without it.

If you're not getting consistency out of the same recipe, then i would say there's your second biggest problem. Even in your list of brews there's quite a variety of beers. I love having all kinds of styles on tap, but I'm also not very consistent right now. I'm still in that process, and know that I've gotta start working on nailing down one recipe (which happens to be an APA).

Lastly, and possibly your third biggest problem (but if you have a ferment chamber, and you're getting consistent results using the same recipe, then this is your only major problem) is that you're overly critical. I am too. I completely understand. And my recommendation to combat this is to actually become a BJCP certified judge. This way you will learn to evaluate your beers (and, of course, every beer you drink from then on) objectively. Right now you're opinion is very subjective, to be honest. But at the very least, I didn't see you mention anything about a homebrew club. That is another place you can get very valuable feedback.

 

[Grannyknot]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[Homercidal]

I gotta echo a lot of what's already been said. Consistency at the homebrew level is difficult. We don't brew EVERY DAMN DAY like the pros, and our equipment and ingredients are smaller so it's hard to produce as consistently as the big guys (Who also have professional tasters and lab equipment to help them nail that flavor every time).

My problem with consistency is that my equipment is always in flux. I'm trying new things, and personally I hate drinking the same thing every time. I want something different to drink all the time.

IF you want to get consistent I think you need to have equipment that will allow it, which means your own grain mill, a reasonably accurate pH meter, an highly reliable thermometer, and a temperature controlled fermentation chamber.

After that you have to sit down and figure up some recipes, including water adjustments (Using RO water, ideally since most people's ground water can fluctuate a fair amount) and work that damn recipe over until you get that "Poppin Hop flavor" you are looking for. Figure out what helps you get this and use that as a model for making different beers in that style.

Then move to the next style and do the same thing. Making excellent beers in all styles requires having different water profiles, adjusting various temperatures, and possibly different yeast pitch rates.

As far as a nice IPA, it's been a bit of a struggle for me as well. I started out thinking I'd to "this" and right now I think what I need to do is "that" instead. The reason is that IPA's in American have evolved so that it's not a GOOD IPA unless it's really smacking you in the face with a TON of hop flavor and aroma.

For this, I recommend 100+ sulfate and a bit of Calcium Chloride. But really get that Sulfate up there! And use a LOT of late hops. You're not trying to make a very bitter beer, so you might consider not doing any 60 minute hops at all. Double what you think you might use and add them at 30 minutes or less. Really pound those hops into the kettle really late. Lastly, dry hop. You have to make more beer because the dry hops will soak up beer like crazy, but a FEW ounces of hops in the carboy or keg rather than 1-2 ounces will help. Hopefully if you used enough late hops you won't feel the need to dry hops as much, but the fermentation will drive some of the aromatics out, which you might want to replace with dry hops.

Ok, anyway, that's what I've heard, and I'm still working on doing some of that myself. One of my problems is I don't brew as often as I should to get that consistency and really get a handle on things. If I had more free time I'd brew smaller batches more often.

 

[passedpawn]

I suggest packing up your gear and putting it in the attic until you're ready to brew again. The worst thing you can do is continue when you're not enjoying it.

Just don't get rid of the gear. You'll regret that for sure, regardless how you feel today. I can almost guarantee you'll be back at it. I quit brewing for a couple of years, then befriended a guy that was thinking about starting. His excitement was contagious and boom!, I was back at it again. If you take a break from the forum too, don't worry, we'll leave the light on for you

​

 

[noggins]

i suggest packing up your gear and putting it in the attic until you're ready to brew again. The worst thing you can do is continue when you're not enjoying it.

Just don't get rid of the gear. You'll regret that for sure, regardless how you feel today. I can almost guarantee you'll be back at it. I quit brewing for a couple of years, then befriended a guy that was thinking about starting. His excitement was contagious and boom!, i was back at it again. If you take a break from the forum too, don't worry, we'll leave the light on for you

+1

 

[bobeer]

Sorry you're having a hard time with the hobby. This is indeed a hobby and hobbies are supposed to make you happy. If you're not happy then maybe you should take a break for a few months and see where that takes you. Maybe you just need a break to recharge your brewing passion.

I brew 5 gallon all grain batches and I've come a long way. I started about 4 years ago with extract/steeping grains. The beer was ok. Nothing too awful but certainly nothing I wanted to share with too many people.
I've thought about moving to pumps and fancier equipment but what I have now works well and I really like the beer I make. Nothing is hard to clean and my brew days take about 5 hours or so. I built most of my gear on the cheap and I continue to try and think of ways to speed up my brew day. I do enjoy the act of brewing but things like sparging, waiting for the wort to boil, and cooling down the wort, I try to speed up as I can. You do not need fancy or expensive equipment to make good beer.
I have a 5.5 gallon pot, a 9 gallon pot, igloo maxcold mash tun, a few plastic 5 and 2.5 gallon carboys, a full size fridge with 2 kegs and 1 tap I switch between the kegs and a 5 lb c02 tank with a duel gauge regulator. I use a dial thermometer to do my mash, I still use a graduated cylinder and hydrometer instead of a refractometer, and I don't have my fermentation chamber functional yet due to money. I ferment in my unfinished basement with a digital thermometer so I know how cool/warm it is down there. I try to brew to the ambient air temperature but some times it's slightly too warm down there for what I want to brew. It is what it is. The beer always turns out well and wins me local brew club competitions. I think the coolest thing I have is a mill... It feels good to have supreme control over my crush and to add another process to a hobby I enjoy already.
My entire process couldn't get more manual than the way it is. I heat the strike water on the stove inside, mash and sparge inside, then lug the full boil kettle outside to my burner and do the boil outside. My burner is a bayou classic bottom of the barrel cheapest you can buy. It takes an hour to get the 6.5+ gallons boiling. Again, it is what it is. I don't have a 3 tier rig to sparge with either. I use my auto siphon with the HLT on the stove top, mash tun on a chair, and the boil kettle on the floor... It really can't get much more basic than what I have and the way I brew. I also use store bought spring water because I hate the city water I'm on and I do not want my beer to taste anything like it.

I have the same issues with my darker beers too. They're too roasty, too chocolaty, etc... My IPA's used to be the same as what you're describing. I made a few changes to my process and now I love them. I started to do whirlpool hop additions at 180 degrees with a ton of hops, like 5+ oz's, and now they have a nice resin hop flavor to them.
As far as the dark beers go... I just cut back the dark grains in them until it's where I like it. They're always a work in progress but then again so is this hobby. It would be sort of boring if you mastered it and there was nothing you could do to grow your style. I feel like even if you did think you mastered this hobby there's other things you could work on or other styles you could brew that were new to you. There are endless possibilities with this hobby.

I'm not sure how much money I've spent on equipment but I don't think it's that's much in comparison to how much beer I've made and how good brewing makes me feel. Joining a brew club really helped me want to brew different styles. I'm an American beer drinker so that's what I brew. Talking shop with the guys at the club, and trying their beers too, have really helped me grow. I don't have any friends that brew so the club is a priceless outlet for me to talk about the hobby and see what others are doing. Are you part of a brew club? If not, I suggest trying to get into one. Homebrewers are great folks and are always welcoming to new club members.

Long post short... haha... maybe try a break for a month or so and see if you get a hankering to brew again. Good luck man and hang in there

 

[brrman]

I have been brewing for 7 years. And I was making some great beers. Then at some point I landed in this situation where every batch was getting infected (like 5 batches in a row). I was so depressed. I replaced all kinds of "consumable" equipment, cleaned everything heavily. Brewed again, got an infection. WTF...

I was about to quit the hobby. My wife just said, "stop brewing for a few months and don't think about it". So thats what I did. Never brewed for 8 months!

Now I am back and re-investigating, have some new ideas on what my issue is. I am going to bottle my next batch - I really think my kegs are the source of my issue.

Sometimes all it takes is a time-off period to let go of the frustration.

 

[kh54s10]

As passedpawn stated it might be time for a break.

Other things that come to mind. It seems that big swings are being taken trying to make great beer. I suggest smaller swings. Take a recipe that you have had success with and make small changes and see if it is better. If not try something else, if yes then go further in the same direction.

There is no need for a lot of fancy equipment to make great beer. I started with an equipment kit and a 5 gallon pot on my stove. One of my best beers was the second one done. It was a Northern Brewer Patersbier extract kit.

I didn't read all of the posts and replies carefully but it seems that fermentation temperature control is lacking. That is one of the best ways to improve your beer. And possible the most critical procedure necessary to make great beer.

Maybe take a break, wait until you are ready then try again.

I have been brewing for 4 years and have gotten quite consistent and prefer my homebrew to most craft brews these days. I do not have much fancy equipment. Gravity fed HLT to water cooler MLT to BK. Propane heated. DIY fermentation chamber that cost maybe $200 to build. And 3 keg system in my refrigerator with taps in the door.

The most important thing is to have fun brewing. If it is not fun it might not be a hobby to continue with.

 

[Aristotelian]

They say that homebrewing is addictive, and it sounds like you caught the bug, but like any addiction it got out of control and is starting to have negative consequences.

I have had a similar experience with gardening. On the one hand, I love having home grown vegetables and being out in the yard. On the other hand, it is a ton of work and once it gets to a certain point it starts to stress you out. I made a decision this year that I would cut way back and it was like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. My yard looks like hell and now I am back to buying produce at the grocery store, but I am a happier guy.

It sounds like you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make something equivalent to commercial brew. I agree, that is unrealistic for a home brewer and if the product is that important to you, you are probably best off taking a step back and just buying commercial beer for a while. Don't view it as a failure to produce that perfect beer, just as having taken homebrewing as far as it can go in your context.

Certainly, if homebrewing large quantities is enabling a real alcohol addiction, that is not a direction you want to go in, and you will also feel better about yourself if you can cut back for a while.

 

[kh54s10]

It sounds like you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make something equivalent to commercial brew. I agree, that is unrealistic for a home brewer and if the product is that important to you, you are probably best off taking a step back and just buying commercial beer for a while. Don't view it as a failure to produce that perfect beer, just as having taken homebrewing as far as it can go in your context.

Certainly, if homebrewing large quantities is enabling a real alcohol addiction, that is not a direction you want to go in, and you will also feel better about yourself if you can cut back for a while.

I totally disagree with the first highlighted statement. There is no reason that a homebrewer cannot make beer as good as or even better than commercial. Maybe not consistently, but as good!!

I totally agree with the second highlighted statement. If you feel the hobby has you drinking too much, or feel you are at any risk, stop before you have a bigger problem....

 

[ericbw]

This is a funny thread. I think you have to decide if you like to MAKE beer or if you like to DRINK beer, or if you just like the IDEA of making beer. It's not everyone's favorite thing to do. If you like to drink beer, then sell of the gear and use that money to buy some expensive beers you like. You've probably got several hundred dollars of beer money in your equipment.

On the other hand, you don't need to invest any more money to make improvements. The basics are really basic - control temperatures, sanitize, follow good recipes, use fresh ingredients. Everything else is luxury.

And finally, I think your taste has something to do with it. Try an Irish red or a mild; try an American style wheat, or a wit beer with spices. I know everyone raves about IPAs, but they aren't really that good. (I know part of that is personal preference.) Back off the intense flavors and see if you're just tired of those over-the-top flavors.

But at the end of the day, if you don't like brewing, then don't frustrate yourself with it.

 

[ericbw]

And the idea to only brew wild/sour/funk is a great plan. Because there's no difference between a good one and a bad one

 

[mattdee1]

I totally agree with the second highlighted statement. If you feel the hobby has you drinking too much, or feel you are at any risk, stop before you have a bigger problem....

I don't understand this advice.

If you choose to brew your own beer, it can take 5-6 hours of work to make 2 cases. If you choose to buy beer, you stop at the store on your way home from work and pick up as much as you want in a matter of minutes. I guess what I'm saying is, you either drink beer or you don't. How can you blame the most effort-intensive route for exacerbating the habit?

If anything, this hobby has made me drink less because I regard the fruits of my labor as a "treat" that I want to last, rather than a commodity that I chug down at will, like I used to do when I drank Busch.

 

[brewcat]

Sometimes I'll get kind of manic depressive about a beer batch. One day it will be great then not good enough then great again.

I tend to create new recipes then go back to something I have down. Then go back to a recipe that showed promise and tweak it. If I feel the recipe is complete then I leave it alone.

Temp control seems to be the issue. That is my next step as well. Then I can actually brew in the summer.

 

[GaBrewZoo]

I agree with PassedPawn. I've been brewing about two years and I'm still in the obsessed category. I spend almost every waking moment thinking about something about beer. If you've lost that passion, it's time to put it away for a while. Plodding along is not going to make it better. Maybe something will trigger that passion again, ie, someone wants to know how to brew, you show them, and boom, you get the passion back. But don't force it.

 

[ericbw]

I don't understand this advice.

If you choose to brew your own beer, it can take 5-6 hours of work to make 2 cases. If you choose to buy beer, you stop at the store on your way home from work and pick up as much as you want in a matter of minutes. I guess what I'm saying is, you either drink beer or you don't. How can you blame the most effort-intensive route for exacerbating the habit?

If anything, this hobby has made me drink less because I regard the fruits of my labor as a "treat" that I want to last, rather than a commodity that I chug down at will, like I used to do when I drank Busch.

I think I drink beer more frequently, but maybe less overall. With a keg, I can get a 10 oz "lady pint" and I'm good with one.

 

[Grannyknot]

Thanks everyone. All good advice.
I've been brewing quite a while, and employ most of the techniques discussed here already.

I've got several ounces of fresh whole leaf hops in the fridge, so plan is to brew a fresh hop IPA next weekend, see how that goes, and since i'll be out of ingredients at that point make my decision. Maybe it is best to take a break for a while. Or maybe i'll remember how rewarding and fun it can be.

 

[Homercidal]

Thanks everyone. All good advice.
I've been brewing quite a while, and employ most of the techniques discussed here already.

I've got several ounces of fresh whole leaf hops in the fridge, so plan is to brew a fresh hop IPA next weekend, see how that goes, and since i'll be out of ingredients at that point make my decision. Maybe it is best to take a break for a while. Or maybe i'll remember how rewarding and fun it can be.

As has been stated, it's a hobby. I was in a slump a while back. My life was busy (still is) and I didn't feel like I was brewing to have fun, but just to have beer. And the beer was mediocre.

Now I brew when I feel like it. If I run out, I buy beer. If I brew, I put my thoughts into brewing mode and try to do the best I can. I've had more fun brewing with someone and showing them how I brew too. Their newfound interest in brewing can spark your own re-interest, and they may ask questions that you have to learn to answer.

I generally make beer that I enjoy, but I don't always make beer as good as some of my favorite craft beers. Again, I think the specific recipe and process probably only needs to be "tweaked". That may be all you need to do to certain recipes to get over that hump and make what you think is world class beer.

 

[kh54s10]

I don't understand this advice.

If you choose to brew your own beer, it can take 5-6 hours of work to make 2 cases. If you choose to buy beer, you stop at the store on your way home from work and pick up as much as you want in a matter of minutes. I guess what I'm saying is, you either drink beer or you don't. How can you blame the most effort-intensive route for exacerbating the habit?

If anything, this hobby has made me drink less because I regard the fruits of my labor as a "treat" that I want to last, rather than a commodity that I chug down at will, like I used to do when I drank Busch.

]

It doesn't necessarily mean that homebrewing will make you drink more, or that if you don't you will buy it anyway.

I don't know what size batches you do but 5-6 hours gets me 4 cases. 12 bottles per case. 50-56 bottles/batch.

But if you brew and you drink more... -- I do! -- I didn't buy very much beer before I started brewing. Now that I brew my own, I like to drink it. I also brew enough that I don't feel I need to make it last. I do feel it is a treat. I take a break every once in a while to make sure I never say I NEED a beer.

If you even think homebrewing MAY lead to a problem, at least take a break, or give it up...

 

[balrog]

...focus on one or two beers...bouncing from a pale ale to a dunkel to a hefe to an IPA to whatever...

+1

Consistency at the homebrew level is difficult..

+1 It's like golf. Or playing the violin. But surely it's like playing golf with a violin.

I hate drinking the same thing every time. I want something different to drink all the time...If I run out, I buy beer. If I brew, I put my thoughts into brewing mode and try to do the best I can...

This.

 

[NewJersey]

Whoever in here said, "it's the journey not the destination" has it right.
For me the beer is almost secondary to retooling my setup and tweeking my process.
I brewed Wednesday and didnt get a chance to really clean up until today (this is very rare for me)
I had to run pbw through the hoses and plate chiller. Also took my 3 keggles outside and cleaned with barkeepers friend.
Straightened up in general and started thinking about a major cleanup and maybe adding a sheet of ss behind my burner. (I brew in a pretty idral basement location next to a ground level set of bilco doors with three windows near me)
It was sorta fun to get everything clean and orderly.
If you dislike any part of the process just stop for awhile or sell off your stuff and grab bottles at a store.

 

[Psylocide]