Asco Red Hat Valves

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Here is a pilot burner with thermocouple holderhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Pilot-burner-assembly-P-N-9880A0161_W0QQitemZ130195197380QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41987QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem, probably jetted for NG but will work with propane, you could get replacement jet for around $10-$15 to make burner burn with clean blue flame. with your setup install solenoid valve after pilot safety valve and pilot will stay lit when solenoid cycles. Good luck with your system build, looks great so far.
 
kladue said:
Here is a pilot burner with thermocouple holderhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Pilot-burner-assembly-P-N-9880A0161_W0QQitemZ130195197380QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41987QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem, probably jetted for NG but will work with propane, you could get replacement jet for around $10-$15 to make burner burn with clean blue flame. with your setup install solenoid valve after pilot safety valve and pilot will stay lit when solenoid cycles. Good luck with your system build, looks great so far.
Click to expand...

Thanks again. Looking forward to getting this part done.
 
Korndog
whats the cost to do that in gas?? all in all I love my electric and dont see the reason tho go through all that you guys are having to go through when electric is so fast and efficent and controlable. there must be more to the story. Dont get me wrong I am a total DIY type of guy and think what you are doing is cool as hell. My system also uses Asco valves but its for automation of liquid flow not gas. the system you sent me a link to is cool. So to my original ?? whats the advantage for you all of gas over electric and whats the cost do you think?
Cheers
JJ
 
Electric brewing systems have their merits but when it comes to heat input to the brewing process you can get more heat with fewer bucks with gas fired systems.
 
Jaybird said:
Korndog
whats the cost to do that in gas?? all in all I love my electric and dont see the reason tho go through all that you guys are having to go through when electric is so fast and efficent and controlable. there must be more to the story. Dont get me wrong I am a total DIY type of guy and think what you are doing is cool as hell. My system also uses Asco valves but its for automation of liquid flow not gas. the system you sent me a link to is cool. So to my original ?? whats the advantage for you all of gas over electric and whats the cost do you think?
Cheers
JJ
Click to expand...

I considered it at one time, but got a little spooked by the concept of putting heating elements in a kettle myself. Plus, I just didn't want to think about it that much. I just copied Lonnie Mac's plans with very few minor tweaks. As far as cost goes. I'm not sure about the actual fuel use, nor do I know what element would cost. My burners were about 50 bucks, Love control 50 bucks, Asco's 110 bucks for fuel rated.
 
One more question regarding gas manifold design, which I know little about.
I was thinking about inletting the gas through a cross between the two asco activated burners, while having the fourth branch go to the brew kettle. The safety valves are indicated on the drawing ("valve") between the cross and the burner risers. Is there any issue with pressure reaching all the burners? Naturally, i would not be using the kettle burner while the HLT and MLT burners are in use.

Screen01.JPG
 
The gas plumbing looks right for automatic control of the HLT and MLT with manual control over the boil kettle. The regulator will be the limiting factor as to how many burners can be fired at same time. Would suggest you use a thread seal paste rather than teflon tape as the tape can end up in the wrong places inside of valves, might use rector seal Tru-Blu or permatex non hardening type gasket seal for threaded joints. If you end up wearing the permatex thread seal, use rubbing alcohol to remove it.
 
kladue said:
If you want to go with direct spark ignition then this model of ignition module would work well with the honeywell valve http://cgi.ebay.com/Honeywell-Direct-Spark-Ignition-Modules-S87J1034_W0QQitemZ260200757464QQihZ016QQcategoryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem, coupled with this pilot burner http://cgi.ebay.com/Q345-A-1321-Honeywell-Pilot-Burner-Igniter-Sensor-S86F_W0QQitemZ320205752306QQihZ011QQcategoryZ53303QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. If you are patient you can aquire these items on Ebay and use a 24VAC transformer with the Love controls to fire the burners on demand instead of needing a standing pilot, follow the schematic on the ignition module for wiring of components.
Click to expand...

Kladue
Sorry to keep bugging you. If I go with spark ignition, would one module work for multiple burners, or do I need one for each burner and valve?

Thanks.
 
Spark modules are made to control a single burner only, the pilot valve with thermocouple is the same. You could put valves in a convient place and use a piezo type lighter to light pilot lights at start of brew day or find one of the battery powered spark ignitors that are made for BBQ's that can light multiple burners.
 
To beat this dead horse some more...

I was planning to have an adjustable flame for the kettle burner, and don't really need a pilot. Is there a safety shutoff setup you would recommend for this burner? Perhaps a gas valve direct to burner flame with built in adjustment? run thermocouple direct to burner flame? Or should I just go ahead and run the pilot too?

Thanks.
 
Most valves only let fuel through the pilot connection until you release the button to prevent surprises when lighting the pilot light. It would probably be better to plan on a pilot light if you want to use a pilot safety valve. Will you be away from kettle burner during operation, or within reach if you have a boilover and flameout, if so you may not need a safety valve.
 
kladue said:
Most valves only let fuel through the pilot connection until you release the button to prevent surprises when lighting the pilot light. It would probably be better to plan on a pilot light if you want to use a pilot safety valve. Will you be away from kettle burner during operation, or within reach if you have a boilover and flameout, if so you may not need a safety valve.
Click to expand...


Ok, thanks, yeah i will be right there. Does this pilot installation look ok? Sorry about the phone pic. I was planning to use tie wire to attach it to the burner since I can't think of any other way.

burner1.jpg


burner2.jpg
 
Looks like the pilot is in a good spot, the flame can be adjusted on the valve to provide large enough flame to reliably light burner jet. You might try using a pipe plug in both sides of pilot opening of burner and drill through square head of plug and use long #8 bolt to attach a small piece of flat bar to mount pilot on. Clamp pilot for testing phase, the final test will be when keggle is on stand and burner is fired, you might have to make some minor adjustments to location to deal with drafts from operating burners, then bolt pilot in final position. Looking forward to seeing the final assembly pictures of your system, finally some one has done the right thing and used pilot safety valves for automated burners.
 
kladue said:
Looks like the pilot is in a good spot, the flame can be adjusted on the valve to provide large enough flame to reliably light burner jet. You might try using a pipe plug in both sides of pilot opening of burner and drill through square head of plug and use long #8 bolt to attach a small piece of flat bar to mount pilot on. Clamp pilot for testing phase, the final test will be when keggle is on stand and burner is fired, you might have to make some minor adjustments to location to deal with drafts from operating burners, then bolt pilot in final position. Looking forward to seeing the final assembly pictures of your system, finally some one has done the right thing and used pilot safety valves for automated burners.
Click to expand...

Great information as usual. I'll try the mounting you recommend if can do it. Yeah, I got religion from reading your posts and decided to go the safe route. Besides, more valves and tubing adds to the industrial coolness effect.

Thanks again.
 
BTW, do you see any problem using a 1/2 x 3/8 bushing on the Asco valve to accommodate a 3/8 pilot valve in front of it? Or should I scrap the Asco's all together and get a combination valve?
 
Bushing in valve will work well, larger sized asco is not a problem. You might want to include a manual valve after asco valve for throttling burner, if installed upstream of safety it might cause pilot flame problems.
 
I don't see a pilot adjustment on those Baso valves on ebay. they are dirt cheap, so I would like to use them. Can I use a valve on the 1/4" line to adjust pilot?

Thanks
KD
 
The valves on Ebay have the "B" option which is the pilot shutoff valve which can be used to adjust pilot flame, looks like you are in luck and dont have to add a needle valve in the pilot line. You will need to fire the pilot lights when you turn on propane to the system unless you install shutoff valves upstream of the safety valves, or remember to turn pilot valve on side of safety valve off.
 
kladue said:
The valves on Ebay have the "B" option which is the pilot shutoff valve which can be used to adjust pilot flame, looks like you are in luck and dont have to add a needle valve in the pilot line. You will need to fire the pilot lights when you turn on propane to the system unless you install shutoff valves upstream of the safety valves, or remember to turn pilot valve on side of safety valve off.
Click to expand...

Ok, cool. I guess the screw is the B option then. I was looking for a knob of some kind. I suppose these fire the pilot and the burner simultaneously when the button is pressed, but that's no big deal. For 15 bucks, who's complaining. Great find. Thanks.
 
billtzk said:
I suspect the 8210g15's I have won't work in my application after all. Neither would the 8210g37 (stainless). They might work in a propane setup with 5 PSI or higher pressure. They require a 5 PSI differential and I'm supplying roughly .25 PSI of natural gas. I can bump that up but not over 2 PSI as that is the max that the gas company supplies to my meter. And if I do that, I have to have another regulator between my brew stand and the house to drop the pressure back down to something between .25 and .5 PSI.

The 8040g22 (0 to 2 PSI) or 8215g20 (0 to 50 PSI) are rated for fuel gas and are most likely the best choices.
Click to expand...

Ok now you have me confused...just as i thought i had this down.

Lonnie used the 8210g37 (stainless) in his design and lists it on his parts list. You mentioned in an earlier post that the 8110g15 you bought are identical in function but differ in material. Brass vs. Stainless.

Then above you in your follow up post you say they WONT work in the brutus design becuase they require 5psi. But Lonnie's Brutus plans say he runs .4 PSI through the gas beam. How do those valves work then if they require 5 PSI? I was already to buy the 8210g15 (brass) for $52 per and you popped my balloon. Did i miss something? Can you help me out here ? Thanks.

MNBugeater
 
MNBugeater said:
Ok now you have me confused...just as i thought i had this down.
Lonnie used the 8210g37 (stainless) in his design and lists it on his parts list. You mentioned in an earlier post that the 8110g15 you bought are identical in function but differ in material. Brass vs. Stainless.
Then above you in your follow up post you say they WONT work in the brutus design becuase they require 5psi. But Lonnie's Brutus plans say he runs .4 PSI through the gas beam. How do those valves work then if they require 5 PSI? I was already to buy the 8210g15 (brass) for $52 per and you popped my balloon. Did i miss something? Can you help me out here ? Thanks.
MNBugeater
Click to expand...

You raise a good point. After a bit of research, I bought the 8210G075 valves. They are listed for fuel gas at 0-50 psi. I'm not really sure why the G037's would work since they are rate for 5 psi minimum, but apparently Lonnie Mac has had no issues.

Since you haven't bought your valves......

If I were starting over, I think I would scrap the Asco's altogether, and go for real gas valves and possibly spark ignition, with all the safety benefits associated with them. My brew club's brewery has such a setup. Combination valve and ignition module to a controller. Works great, it's wind proof and safe. Check Kladue's posts in this thread for more info. I also just got this from the member who built our club system.


Screen02.JPG
 
This model of Honeywell valve is a standing pilot valve like the Baso valve, but is internally regulated to deliver 3.5" WC outlet pressure. That might be a bit to low for a propane application which normally runs 11-13"WC pressure.
 
kladue said:
This model of Honeywell valve is a standing pilot valve like the Baso valve, but is internally regulated to deliver 3.5" WC outlet pressure. That might be a bit to low for a propane application which normally runs 11-13"WC pressure.
Click to expand...


Ok thanks.
 
Going to buy the nipples and fittings for the manifold today. I just want to make sure there isn't any volume issues using 3/8 line for some of the runs on the main branch.

Thanks
KD
 
korndog said:
Ok, I just have to get to 3/8 for the Baso valves.
Click to expand...

Why is that? I thought you are using the 8210G075's?

They should be 1/2" pipe size and 5/8" orifice size.

I'm considering getting the 8210G075's and hopefully they are they right choice.

I was considering getting the STC valves but so far no one has responded to my post so I'll just plan on the 8210G075's unless you have a reason not to.

I'd love to go with gas valves & spark ignition but so far I'm lost on what to get.

More reading is in order since all I need to finish up the Brutus 10 clone is my gas valves and ignition system.
 
HarvInSTL said:
Why is that? I thought you are using the 8210G075's?

They should be 1/2" pipe size and 5/8" orifice size.

I'm considering getting the 8210G075's and hopefully they are they right choice.

I was considering getting the STC valves but so far no one has responded to my post so I'll just plan on the 8210G075's unless you have a reason not to.

I'd love to go with gas valves & spark ignition but so far I'm lost on what to get.

More reading is in order since all I need to finish up the Brutus 10 clone is my gas valves and ignition system.
Click to expand...

Hi Harv
My Baso's are pilot safety valves I bought on Ebay, They are 3/8". You are correct that the G075's are 1/2" which is what I have; that's why I need to reduce. You might want to consider adding them to your setup if you go standing pilot.

There is lots of good information from Kladue in this thread as to what to order for a spark ignition system. You need a gas valve, ignition module, pilot burner/sensor, and power source. The models that will work are elsewhere in the thread.
 
HarvInSTL,
The STC valve model you want should be the 2W160-500 series as it has a lower minimum operating pressure than the ASCO model and same NBR seals. If you want to go the electric ignition route you can find the direct spark ignition modules on Ebay along with pilot burner/sensors to match, combined spark and flame sensors are easier to work with.
 
Can someone explain to me why normally closed valves are the proper application in the setup with the LOVE TS controllers in the Brutus 10 design?

I understand that the valve is closed out of the box so to speak until it is charged and then the solenoid is lifted allowing the gas to flow to the burner.

But wouldnt the natural or 'normal' state need to be open so gas can ignite the burner and close when the temperature probe reaches the set temperature on the LOVE? This way when the solenoid is charged it gets closed, hence a normally open valve would be needed.

I know all the models of valves mentioned in this thread from ASCO or STC are all normally closed valves, im just trying to understand this all so when i assemble it, i know i get the operation of the design.

Thanks to korndog and kladue, i now undertand the standing pilot control and the associated safety valve. Im proud to say that i will be implementing these safety features. Now i just want to make sure i understand the main gas valve and how it interacts with the LOVE TS Switch.

I know this isnt rocket science and were just brewin' beer...but its gas man, and im making sure i GET it before i assemble my new toy. Thanks all.

MNBugeater
 
MNBugeater said:
Can someone explain to me why normally closed valves are the proper application in the setup with the LOVE TS controllers in the Brutus 10 design?

I understand that the valve is closed out of the box so to speak until it is charged and then the solenoid is lifted allowing the gas to flow to the burner.

But wouldnt the natural or 'normal' state need to be open so gas can ignite the burner and close when the temperature probe reaches the set temperature on the LOVE? This way when the solenoid is charged it gets closed, hence a normally open valve would be needed.

I know all the models of valves mentioned in this thread from ASCO or STC are all normally closed valves, im just trying to understand this all so when i assemble it, i know i get the operation of the design.

Thanks to korndog and kladue, i now undertand the standing pilot control and the associated safety valve. Im proud to say that i will be implementing these safety features. Now i just want to make sure i understand the main gas valve and how it interacts with the LOVE TS Switch.

I know this isnt rocket science and were just brewin' beer...but its gas man, and im making sure i GET it before i assemble my new toy. Thanks all.

MNBugeater
Click to expand...

The Love "controller" is really just a glorified On/Off switch. If you were doing it manually, you would look at your thermometer and flip a switch ON to fire the burners when you dip below your set point, and flip it off when you were back at temp or done mashing. I suppose you could make N.O. valves work, but it would be a hassle and possibly dangerous.
 
Yeah, I get that the LOVE is just an on/off switch. But for example, when i start my brew day and i want to fire up the HLT to start heating water to say 170 for example...

With the valve being normally CLOSED, how does it get open to light the burner? Are you saying that if the temperature is LOWER than the setting on the LOVE, it opens?
 
MNBugeater said:
Yeah, I get that the LOVE is just an on/off switch. But for example, when i start my brew day and i want to fire up the HLT to start heating water to say 170 for example...

With the valve being normally CLOSED, how does it get open to light the burner? Are you saying that if the temperature is LOWER than the setting on the LOVE, it opens?
Click to expand...

Yes. You can set them up either way.

Heating: To choose Heating Control - Set d0=Ht
(The output is activated when TS1 [temperature of
ambient probe] is less than or equal to Set Point.)
TS1<=SP. It then disconnects when TS1>=SP-r0.

Cooling: To choose Cooling Control - Set d0=Co
(The output is activated when TS1>=SP+r0.) The
display will switch off when TS1<=Set.

I guess if you had N.O. valves, you could use the cooling program option.
 
Thats the part i didnt know, thanks. The LOVE can be setup to send power/signal for both cooling and heating. Got it.

Well, i have all but the main gas valves ordered, still waiting for a decent price on ASCO 8210G75s. I meet with my welder today. Hell have my stand done in a week or so. Then its assembly time.

Anyone have any strong opinions on the Hurricane burners versus the 20-jet burners Lonnie uses? I have 2 Hurricane burners and id prefer to reuse those in my stand. Although i have never had a great jet flame with them, the carbs are minimally effective at best. They work, just not great and they seem to be very susceptible to wind.
 
You should be able to use the Hurricane burners just fine in your stand. I use the 10 jet low pressure burners and LOVE them... I have seen several with the 20 jet though; but I have seen many Brutus'ess with every burner I could imagine now too... I would say that it is up to you and what you are happy with!

:)
 
kladue said:
HarvInSTL,
The STC valve model you want should be the 2W160-500 series as it has a lower minimum operating pressure than the ASCO model and same NBR seals. If you want to go the electric ignition route you can find the direct spark ignition modules on Ebay along with pilot burner/sensors to match, combined spark and flame sensors are easier to work with.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Since I'm using LP do I want NBR seals or should I consider the Viton or Teflon seals?


MNBugeater said:
Can someone explain to me why normally closed valves are the proper application in the setup with the LOVE TS controllers in the Brutus 10 design?

I understand that the valve is closed out of the box so to speak until it is charged and then the solenoid is lifted allowing the gas to flow to the burner.

But wouldnt the natural or 'normal' state need to be open so gas can ignite the burner and close when the temperature probe reaches the set temperature on the LOVE? This way when the solenoid is charged it gets closed, hence a normally open valve would be needed.

I know all the models of valves mentioned in this thread from ASCO or STC are all normally closed valves, im just trying to understand this all so when i assemble it, i know i get the operation of the design.

Thanks to korndog and kladue, i now undertand the standing pilot control and the associated safety valve. Im proud to say that i will be implementing these safety features. Now i just want to make sure i understand the main gas valve and how it interacts with the LOVE TS Switch.

I know this isnt rocket science and were just brewin' beer...but its gas man, and im making sure i GET it before i assemble my new toy. Thanks all.

MNBugeater
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that with N.O. valves they are open until energized. So what happens when you lose power? Do they stay open, or if closed will they open?
 

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