Are roasted flavors affected by CL/SO4 ratio ?

[adam01]

I'm trying to brew a warsteiner dunkel clone. But all my attempts are missing the roasted
flavors (and some of its particular sweetness)

I've tried amber malty / black malty water profiles, as well as various suppliers for roasted barley, chocoate, etc. Roasted barley is the correct grain, but at the low levels (1/4 lb)
for 5 gals, there isn't much of a roasted flavor coming out.

Lately, I'm using distilled water as the muni seems to change source every week.

Thanks

 

[mabrungard]

Not by the ratio. However, I find that roast and sulfate both produce a drying of the palate and including too much sulfate in a roasty beer can be over the top. Keep sulfate well below 100 ppm in roasty beers. Chloride can be somewhat high without much detriment.

 

[ajdelange]

See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=526109 for discussion of the merits, or lack thereof WRT chloride/sulfate ratio.

I'm trying to brew a warsteiner dunkel clone. But all my attempts are missing the roasted
flavors (and some of its particular sweetness)

I've tried amber malty / black malty water profiles, as well as various suppliers for roasted barley, chocoate, etc. Roasted barley is the correct grain, but at the low levels (1/4 lb)
for 5 gals, there isn't much of a roasted flavor coming out.

Yes, for appreciable roasty quality similar to what one would find in a dry stout he would use more like 10% roast barley which I'm guessing would be about 3 times your quarter pound but I don't know any details about your grain bill so thats a WAG.

As for the styilistic mineral content: The ion associated with sweetness is chloride so I would consider a highish level of that with very low sulfate (chloride to sulfate level of ∞ is, IMO, ideal for a lot of beers). You can experiment by taking some of the beer which you have already brewed and tasting it with a pinch of CaCl2 added and see if it improves the flavor.

Lately, I'm using distilled water as the muni seems to change source every week.

Try it with half a tsp of CaCl2 per 5 gallons at first.

 

[adam01]

The grain bill is ~80% pilsner, ~18% munich, ~2% roasted barley (or other) Roasted is restrained to keep color at 16 SRM.

Ive tried water from RO + 1tsp CaCl, tap water ~(50 Ca, 5 Mg, 50 Na, 80-100 HCO3, 80-90 SO4, 38 CL), RO + (40 CA, 21 NA, 12 SO4, 64 CL, 57 HCO3)[last trial]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try adding some CaCL2 to see what it does.

 

[ajdelange]

Part of the problem may be high mash pH. Even with 0 alkalinity some acid would be needed. Try a couple (2 - 3) % sauermalz along with the CaCl2 and leave out the bicarbonate in the RO mix. In any case I don't think you can expect much roast flavor out of 2% roast barley.