Are my carboys ruined??

[lilrokz06]

After letting my carboys sit in oxyclean for about four days they developed a cloudy residue that I just can't remove. My 1st question is can I actually get this residue off? My second question is, is it safe to still use? Here's some pics, thanks in advance.


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[Rivenin]

soak it in vinegar to get that crap off, or starsan might work... but it needs something acidic if i recall correctly to get that stuff off.

 

[Falcon3]

That's pretty bad, but I think a long Star San soak should work- some sort of acid soak is needed and should get it off-

 

[passedpawn]

I did the same thing once. I can't remember what I did to get it off, but it did come off eventually.

 

[nhwrecker]

This older thread should help out -

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/removing-oxiclean-white-residue-glass-176102/

 

[bja]

That's odd. I've left carboys soak with oxyclean for up to 2 weeks and never had anything like that happen.

 

[Rivenin]

if he has hard water it'll bring all the minerals out.

 

[b-boy]

+1 for StarSan.

 

[bja]

if he has hard water it'll bring all the minerals out.

Really? Why doesn't that happen in a washing machine when using oxyclean to wash clothes?

 

[day_trippr]

Really? Why doesn't that happen in a washing machine when using oxyclean to wash clothes?

Obviously there's a dependency on the actual water makeup, and yours might be exceptionally low in carbonates. Beyond that, have you ever stopped the washing machine mid-wash cycle and left it there overnight to see what happens?

Anyway...it will likely take only minutes to remove that film with about a quart of 50/50 white vinegar/water solution swirled around.
Just make sure your hands are dry, we don't need another addition to the "Gawdawful Carboy Injury Thread"...

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

. (stupid phone trick)

 

[bja]

Obviously there's a dependency on the actual water makeup, and yours might be exceptionally low in carbonates.

My water is actually quite high in carbonates.

Beyond that, have you ever stopped the washing machine mid-wash cycle and left it there overnight to see what happens?

Why would anybody do that?

I'm wondering how much oxyclean was used in those carboys. Could it be that using way too much causes this? I'm just find it hard to believe that oxyclean precipitates minerals out of the water.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]Why would anybody do that?[...]

LOL! Of course, but then you don't actually have a counterpoint to offer

I'm wondering how much oxyclean was used in those carboys. Could it be that using way too much causes this? I'm just find it hard to believe that oxyclean precipitates minerals out of the water.

It doesn't take much. I use two tablespoons per full carboy, and if I get an attack of the lazies and leave it overnight there will be a white film. Nowhere near as profound as the OP's, and a swirl of Star San cleans it right out...

Cheers!

 

[DSorenson]

soak it in vinegar to get that crap off, or starsan might work... but it needs something acidic if i recall correctly to get that stuff off.

This ^^^

I have a similar thing develop in my glass carboys if I use hard water and oxyfree. Starsan takes it right off.

 

[rekoob]

hmmm, I use oxy too and leave it until I am ready to use the carboy next.
I just add a scoop and fill with water. After a day or so the carboy is clean and what I thought was the end product of oxyclean (soda ash?) sinks to the bottom like trub.
In any case, I dump and give a rinse, ready to sanitize.
I've never had anything like this happen.

 

[bja]

LOL! Of course, but then you don't actually have a counterpoint to offer

A counterpoint to doing something stupid? I didn't think that was necessary.

 

[lilrokz06]

hmmm, I use oxy too and leave it until I am ready to use the carboy next.

I just add a scoop and fill with water. After a day or so the carboy is clean and what I thought was the end product of oxyclean (soda ash?) sinks to the bottom like trub.

In any case, I dump and give a rinse, ready to sanitize.

I've never had anything like this happen.

I've been using these carboys for past two years using oxy free and never had an issue. I don't believe the mineral makeup in my water changed but who knows.

Anyways, thanks everyone for the suggestions. When I get home ill try the vinegar in one Carboy and star san in the other to see which gives the best results.


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[jolsen]

Had similar happen to me, not to that extent though. I didn't have any vinegar in the house, just ended up filling with hot water, the next day was good to go again


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[Patirck]

This is an old restaurant trick used to clean cloudy glass stuff:

Try vinegar and kosher salt. You don't have to fill it up - the idea is that you put say a 1/2 gallon of vinegar (get the 1.5 gallon bottle at costco for 2 or 3 bucks) and a good amount of kosher salt (say 3/4 cup or so). Adding some ice cubes wouldn't hurt either. Once you have all that in the carboy, cover the lid somehow (plastic wrap should work) shake it around until you see clear glass. The vinegar acts as an acid cleaner and the salt and ice cubes agitate the stuff stuck to the side.

I'm sure there may be some fancy chemical cleaners that will do this as well - but this was state of the art in 1976.

 

[The_Bishop]

Salt + Vinegar = Hydrochloric Acid. It's the acid that does the cleaning, the agitation of the salt helps.

 

[passedpawn]

Salt + Vinegar = Hydrochloric Acid. It's the acid that does the cleaning, the agitation of the salt helps.

No wonder my gums are bleeding after I eat these

 

[W0GWT]

No wonder my gums are bleeding after I eat these

I wondered why those chips taste like pennies. Huh.

 

[passedpawn]

Vinegar is already pretty acidic. I doubt that adding some salt would increase it's acidity much. But who knows. Sounds like a good experiment for someone with a pH meter. Not sure how well vinegar dissociates to make the HCl.

 

[Brad2287]

The pKa value for HCl is less than the pKa for acetic acid. The reaction is proceeding in the wrong direction (the dissociation of a hydrogen ion from acetate is the limiting factor). When mixing the two you end up with acetic acid and sodium chloride in solution not HCl. HCl plus sodium acetate in molar equivalents would yield acetic acid.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Not molar equivalents!...........

 

[The_Bishop]

A little googling pulled up this formula:
HC2H3O2 + NaCl ---> HCl + NaCH3O2
(vinegar) + (salt) ---> (hydrochloric acid) + (sodium acetate)

However, I am not a chemist and don't profess to be one. This formula may be incorrect. I know it cleans copper very, very well though.

 

[HumulusHead]

Grain + yeast = beer

That's the extent of my chemistry knowledge.

Just ask my AP chem teacher ha


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[Brad2287]

A little googling pulled up this formula:
HC2H3O2 + NaCl ---> HCl + NaCH3O2
(vinegar) + (salt) ---> (hydrochloric acid) + (sodium acetate)

However, I am not a chemist and don't profess to be one. This formula may be incorrect. I know it cleans copper very, very well though.

Your equation is correct in the sense that it is a balanced equation (ignoring the missing carbon in the sodium acetate). The problem is thermodynamics. The thermodynamics of the above equation are not favorable and it will proceed in the reverse direction. The pKa of an acid is proportional to gibbs free energy (free enthalpy)

To the original poster. The composition of of oxyclean is mostly sodium carbonate/sodium percarbonate. When divalent cations (Ca2+ Mg2+) are mixed with carbonates in a high pH high temperature environment a precipitate is formed assuming you have a quantity exceeding the solubility in those conditions. This would happen in water containing high levels of Calcium and Magnesium ions. The solubility decreases as pH increases and temperature increases (inverse solubility). This means that using a cold acidic solution will remove the carbonate precipitate.