Are hipsters ruining craft beer?

[Beergnomes]

Not all people who like the rebel flag, including myself, do so for racial reasons. It meant many things to different people during the Civil War. For many it was to protect slavery, for others it was against the encroachment of the federal government, others, pride in being southern. Today for I would say the vast majority of us it is southern pride.

Also, I am not only a Christian, but a pastor and a very conservative one at that. I have friends who are atheists who where shirts that say so and have the bumper stickers. You cannot get more polar opposite about the thing that is most important to me in this life. Guess what, we hang out and have a beer together. I don't have to agree with them, or them with me, in order to talk to them.

I would never presume to argue that for you and many others it is a symbol of southern pride. For me and for many others like me it is a symbol of racism and is waved to this day at every single KKK rally. I'm sure there are less offensive ways of showing pride. Pride at the expense of someone else's sensibilities can sometimes be translated as arrogance. And I am an atheist and hang with people of all religions and would protect their right to worship who and what they like fervently. You obviously didn't get my point. Common interests bond people and it is perfectly normal for people to seek out like minds. Why else would we all be on a BEER forum.

 

[cfrazier77]

You obviously didn't get my point. Common interests bond people and it is perfectly normal for people to seek out like minds. Why else would we all be on a BEER forum.

I understood that part, I was just saying that we should not refuse to hang out with someone who displays/wears something that we do not like. I don't care for most things hipster, but I can accept them without having to validate their positions or opinions.

When we can find a thing that we share in common, then it is easy.

 

[Beergnomes]

I understood that part, I was just saying that we should not refuse to hang out with someone who displays/wears something that we do not like. I don't care for most things hipster, but I can accept them without having to validate their positions or opinions.

When we can find a thing that we share in common, then it is easy.

Trust me, I'm happy to set aside many differences that I have with people, we all do and need to to get by in life. I used that symbol as an example because for me, that's my line in the sand. The swastica is 3000 years old and until Hitler made it his own it was a positive symbol. My neighbors are Jews, I wouldn't walk out the door with a swastika on my arm even though I know the true history of that symbol. It would be grossly insensitive. Likewise, I wouldn't befriend anyone that tattooed one on his forehead.
Back on subject, point of thread was "are hipsters ruining craft beer" so let's break it down mathematically.
We are all consumers, when we consume we create demand which generates supply. The greater the demand the more diverse and abundant the supply. Therefore I submit that it is mathematically impossible for Hypters to hurt the craft beer industry ... Unless as some previous posts claim, they really do all drink PBR. Then PBR wins and craft beer loses.

 

[jglazer]

This has turned into an excellent conversation. Sry OP but thanks OP From hipters to confederate flags to swastikas! Oh and republicans too but no one really cares about them amirite? :O

 

[jglazer]

OH and have I told you guys that I like hipsters only because it isnt cool to like them? Def not a hispter though, def not.

 

[Teromous]

Trust me, I'm happy to set aside many differences that I have with people, we all do and need to to get by in life. I used that symbol as an example because for me, that's my line in the sand. The swastica is 3000 years old and until Hitler made it his own it was a positive symbol. My neighbors are Jews, I wouldn't walk out the door with a swastika on my arm even though I know the true history of that symbol. It would be grossly insensitive. Likewise, I wouldn't befriend anyone that tattooed one on his forehead.
Back on subject, point of thread was "are hipsters ruining craft beer" so let's break it down mathematically.
We are all consumers, when we consume we create demand which generates supply. The greater the demand the more diverse and abundant the supply. Therefore I submit that it is mathematically impossible for Hypters to hurt the craft beer industry ... Unless as some previous posts claim, they really do all drink PBR. Then PBR wins and craft beer loses.

...unless their demand outweighs the rate of production, which results in...

...or they become so successful that they...

Math? What math again?

 

[unionrdr]

They claim there's a million home brewers in the US now,so who cares what they do or don't do. Like the post above my 9th grade math teacher's chalk board---do your own thing,but don't stop me from doing mine---.

 

[Beergnomes]

...unless their demand outweighs the rate of production, which results in...

...or they become so successful that they...

Math? What math again?

Wouldn't we all like to have a business so successful that we are able to sell out? I certainly would, I'd take my money and be on an island in Greece before the ink on the check was dry. I'd just take my home brew equipment with me. Beer in Greece is Sh!te. Chicago is not hurting for craft breweries since the loss of Goose Island. Besides,not every successful craft brewery sells out. You're local craft brewery owner is not immortal. He can't live forever and may want to enjoy retirement. Loved the pic, bet the owners are happy and are you suggesting that every person patronizing the establishment is a hipster or that the reverse would be better? Was in Texas recently where their tap house was successful enough to put a second one across town. I guess some see glasses half empty and others see them half full. I for one would be happy if any business venture of mine was that rockin' full of patrons.

 

[Teromous]

Loved the pic, bet the owners are happy and are you suggesting that every person patronizing the establishment is a hipster or that the reverse would be better?

So you saw a picture and drew your conclusions from that and the thread title? My post had nothing to do with "hipsters." I was illustrating that more consumers does not always lead to more production.

"Just like the Pliny the Elder, the growth and popularity of Pliny the Younger has happened organically, we did not start with the intentions of building a beer that in time would have this HUGE buzz around it, it was just something fun to brew and over the years we have made a little more each year. We are at our maximum limit though now on how much we can brew. In truth it is a very difficult beer for us to brew as it takes 6 weeks to make, a batch of something else usually takes 21 to 24 days so as you can see if you do the math we lose a lot of tank space when we make Younger, in fact, we lose an entire fermentation cycle on two tanks when we make Younger. We may try to make a small amount more in the future but because of the production issues it causes us it will never be produced in any quantity."

--Vinnie Cilurzo (Russian River Brewing Co.)

 

[troy2000]

Fun story. Last weekend during the Superbowl at my place I went out the garage and filled a few sample glasses.

"Hey guys, give this a try!"
"Wow, what is this? This is really really good! Is this one of yours?"
"Nope. It's Budweiser."

They refused to believe me until I showed them the bottle and poured them another one.

The looks on their faces when they realized they actually enjoyed Bud was priceless. Haha. (NOTE: this does NOT work with "lite" beer...doesn't taste that great)

I have no shame. When I'm out of home brew, I drink Milwaukee's Best. It's cheap, gives me a buzz, and (at least to me) tastes better than a lot of the other commercial offerings out there....

 

[krackin]

Closet hipsters by the looks.

 

[jpcourtney]

I have no shame. When I'm out of home brew, I drink Milwaukee's Best. It's cheap, gives me a buzz, and (at least to me) tastes better than a lot of the other commercial offerings out there....

Yea Buddy! MB is a house beer at my place. Cheap and wet, good for beer drinkin', not "sessions".

 

[troy2000]

I would never presume to argue that for you and many others it is a symbol of southern pride. For me and for many others like me it is a symbol of racism and is waved to this day at every single KKK rally. I'm sure there are less offensive ways of showing pride. Pride at the expense of someone else's sensibilities can sometimes be translated as arrogance. And I am an atheist and hang with people of all religions and would protect their right to worship who and what they like fervently. You obviously didn't get my point. Common interests bond people and it is perfectly normal for people to seek out like minds. Why else would we all be on a BEER forum.

Even though I have deep southern roots, I've never really understood this 'southern pride' stuff. WTF are they so proud of?

That their part of the country fought a civil war trying to tear the nation asunder, and lost?

That the southern economy used to be based on human slavery, and when it had to give them up it codified blatant racism into its laws?

That on the whole, southern states have crappier economies, and suck up more federal tax dollars than they send to Washington?

That as a group folks in the south have lower standards of living, have less access to healthcare, weigh more and die younger than folks in the rest of the country?

That they send total whack jobs to Congress, and then wonder why nothing gets done in Washington?

Don't get me wrong. I like the rural lifestyle; I like guns. I eat pork chops and biscuits both smothered in gravy for breakfast, and Hoppin' John for New Year's. Hell, I even wear the hat. I walked into a Carl's Junior the other day, and the sweet young thing behind the counter broke out with, "well, Yee Haw! What kin we do fer you this fine mornin'?!?" I hadn't had my coffee yet, so I let it slide....

But frankly, I don't understand all the fuss about southern pride. It's almost as puzzling to me as why New Yorkers believe that being from the dirtiest, smelliest, most unfriendly American city I've ever lived in somehow places them above us mere mortals.... and don't even get me started on them.

 

[krackin]

Agreed T2. I never figured I owed anyone anything due to common location, names, ancestors, or similar/dissimilar skin color.

 

[Lost_Arkitekt]

.

But frankly, I don't understand all the fuss about southern pride. It's almost as puzzling to me as why New Yorkers believe that being from the dirtiest, smelliest, most unfriendly American city I've ever lived in somehow places them above us mere mortals.... and don't even get me started on them.

Yeah...'cause Los Angeles isn't surrounded by a cloud of smog all the way out to Riverside!

Just sayin'. I live in Chicago, but I DO miss my Southern Hospitality. Have lived in Boston, family is in Maine, and also lived in Cincinnati. There are uncultured, ignorant, racists, etc., everywhere. The non-racist, educated, polite and friendly Southerners (yes, they DO exist) are missed everyday up here.

 

[troy2000]

Agreed T2. I never figured I owed anyone anything due to common location, names, ancestors, or similar/dissimilar skin color.

Of course, I only got around to picking on southerners and New Yorkers. If anyone's feeling left out, all they have to do is let me know their home state, race, religion and/or ethnicity and I'll try to make them feel included....

 

[troy2000]

Yeah...'cause Los Angeles isn't surrounded by a cloud of smog all the way out to Riverside!

Just sayin'. I live in Chicago, but I DO miss my Southern Hospitality. Have lived in Boston, family is in Maine, and also lived in Cincinnati. There are uncultured, ignorant, racists, etc., everywhere. The non-racist, educated, polite and friendly Southerners (yes, they DO exist) are missed everyday up here.

Fortunately I live beyond Riverside, the San Gabriel Valley and all of that. I will say that overall, the smog situation has been getting better instead of worse for years in spite of population growth, but yeah... I hear you.

 

[amfukuda]

To me my Southern pride is more about feeling self reliant and the good manners us simple country folk are raised with. And has nothing to do with the civil war or any of that


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[troy2000]

To me my Southern pride is more about feeling self reliant and the good manners us simple country folk are raised with. And has nothing to do with the civil war or any of that


-

Judging by my personal experience over the years, southern hospitality is a mite over-rated. There are plenty of southerners who will turn on you in a heartbeat if they feel you've offended them, and they're easy to offend. I have the scars to prove it.

I guess that sort of touchiness is just part of the whole 'southern pride' schtick....

On the other hand, many of them will go miles out of their way to help a stranger without even thinking twice, and get somewhat indignant if you try to pay them for their trouble. By their lights, they're just doing what comes natural.

That's also part of southern pride. And I suppose they're hardly the only culture in the world that combines unforced hospitality and generosity with a thin skin bordering on arrogance....

 

[amfukuda]

Fair enough friend. I suppose there is good and bad in every group. I just don't like being lumped in with a bunch of racist because I own a flag


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[krackin]

Judging by my personal experience over the years, southern hospitality is a mite over-rated. There are plenty of southerners who will turn on you in a heartbeat if they feel you've offended them, and they're easy to offend. I have the scars to prove it.

I guess that sort of touchiness is just part of the whole 'southern pride' schtick....

On the other hand, many of them will go miles out of their way to help a stranger without even thinking twice, and get somewhat indignant if you try to pay them for their trouble. By their lights, they're just doing what comes natural.

That's also part of southern pride. And I suppose they're hardly the only culture in the world that combines unforced hospitality and generosity with a thin skin bordering on arrogance....

I rode patch for 10 years. I won't disclose that patch but it was the only one allowed anywhere with any 1%. We worked for it and it was for charity. Within my experience, the best up front was in the south. Then best to cover your ass were in the north.

 

[Beergnomes]

So you saw a picture and drew your conclusions from that and the thread title? My post had nothing to do with "hipsters." I was illustrating that more consumers does not always lead to more production.

"Just like the Pliny the Elder, the growth and popularity of Pliny the Younger has happened organically, we did not start with the intentions of building a beer that in time would have this HUGE buzz around it, it was just something fun to brew and over the years we have made a little more each year. We are at our maximum limit though now on how much we can brew. In truth it is a very difficult beer for us to brew as it takes 6 weeks to make, a batch of something else usually takes 21 to 24 days so as you can see if you do the math we lose a lot of tank space when we make Younger, in fact, we lose an entire fermentation cycle on two tanks when we make Younger. We may try to make a small amount more in the future but because of the production issues it causes us it will never be produced in any quantity."

--Vinnie Cilurzo (Russian River Brewing Co.)

I did not state that one individual brewery could magically produce more than they are capable of. I stated that with greater demand comes greater availability. This is currently being demonstrated as we are seeing more craft brew driven businesses of all types crop up all across the US. New business is created to fill gaps. My statement was in response to whether or not craft brews are being hurt by hipsters and I stand firm in that consumption and demand is positive, it is support. I personally perceive more danger in laws that may be created in the future by larger corporations lobbying for restrictions in an attempt to kill their competition on the legal front. I don't however begrudge anyone who has put heart and soul into an endeavor and then decides to take an offer that is just too good to pass on. As I'm sure you know, once you have a talent for it, you could simply just do it again if you desired. Unless you sign a valid non-compete clause.

 

[Randy64]

I was at a bar / restaurant tonight and they have 2 Bells, a Rougue, a Goose Island, a local craft rye, and Blue Moon on tap. I heard a guy at the bar say "the two hearted is good but I wish they had Guinness I like the full dark body because I drink coffee all day.


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[ram5ey]

The "Southern Hospitality" feels so fake to me in ATL. I did recently drive from ATL to Phoenix, and the people in Texas seemed to be some of the friendliest I've ever run into.

 

[krackin]

The "Southern Hospitality" feels so fake to me in ATL. I did recently drive from ATL to Phoenix, and the people in Texas seemed to be some of the friendliest I've ever run into.[/QUO

I got no arguments with TX or AR.

 

[b-boy]

I just got back from hipster central (NYC). I attended an office promotion party and there were a group of Brooklyn hipsters there. They were in their early 20s. They were very nice guys, but they were trying a little too hard. I enjoyed talking to them though.

I offered to buy a round. I asked what they wanted. It took them about 15 minutes to analyze the beer menu. I said, do you like IPAs? They did, so I ended up getting 3 dogfish head 60s on tap.

The fourth guy couldn't decide. He told me that he really likes Blue Moon, but he knows it's not a cool beer to drink because its made by BMC. He didn't want to order it. The other guys said it was probably OK, since it's a Belgian-style beer. He couldn't make up his mind. I stood there looking at these guys. Finally I said - 'Do you like Blue Moon?'. He said 'Yes'. So, I bought him a Blue Moon and said 'Just drink what you like and don't worry about it'.

So to answer the question, they're not ruining it, but they're not helping it either.

 

[rodwha]

My parents were military, and so I've lived a lot of places, mostly in the south.

Visiting family and driving up and down the NE coast from Virginia Beach, VA to NYC I noticed the further north you went the less friendly the majority of people became, as well as a much more fast paced madman driving scene. The people were often quite rude, and very mouthy. Not to say that's how all are, but it didn't seem uncommon, and these are the big cities I speak of as Belmar, NJ was a very nice place.

The further south we went, and on our way back to Texas, that southern hospitality thing became more prominent, though I seem to notice it more outside of Texas (I live in a big city), though we love the small towns, which generally also have that southern hospitality.

I'm not exactly pro south, but I am pro laid back and easy going. Oh, and I love my space! Those roads up there were just far too narrow!

 

[Cdburkhart]

The "Southern Hospitality" feels so fake to me in ATL. I did recently drive from ATL to Phoenix, and the people in Texas seemed to be some of the friendliest I've ever run into.

But is Atlanta a true southern city?

The running joke is no one is actual born in the Atlanta/surrounding area they just move there.

When I lived in Young Harris I met some of the kindest people. Same goes for Kansas City, MO. So I guess it's who you meet.

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[Teromous]

I did not state that one individual brewery could magically produce more than they are capable of. I stated that with greater demand comes greater availability. This is currently being demonstrated as we are seeing more craft brew driven businesses of all types crop up all across the US. New business is created to fill gaps.

I'll tell that to the folks in Santa Monica when I'm standing in line for a Pliny.

Craft beer isn't good just because it's "craft beer." People have the brands that they like and there is a lot of hype behind those brands. Opening more breweries to "fill gaps" isn't going to replace the lack of availability for what people actually want.

 

[jglazer]

I get southern pride, I live down here and see it every day and respect it, but why specifically choose the confederate flag to show your pride? (seriously, I am curious to know)

Like someone said earlier, wouldn't it be the same if someone from Germany hung a swastika and said it was German pride? (sorry for getting too off topic here, but hey thats what 90% of HBT posts are like)

 

[roastquake]

The "Southern Hospitality" feels so fake to me in ATL. I did recently drive from ATL to Phoenix, and the people in Texas seemed to be some of the friendliest I've ever run into.

It's a huge city. There is no hospitable feel in those types of towns, you gotta go to small-town south to find southern hospitality. Just like Hank Jr. said about NYC "nobody here smiles or says a word, they're all to busy trying to make an extra dime, I'd love to haul 'em all down around Spartanburg and show 'em how to raise hell in Caroline"

 

[Lost_Arkitekt]

I get southern pride, I live down here and see it every day and respect it, but why specifically choose the confederate flag to show your pride? (seriously, I am curious to know)

Like someone said earlier, wouldn't it be the same if someone from Germany hung a swastika and said it was German pride? (sorry for getting too off topic here, but hey thats what 90% of HBT posts are like)

WOW...some people really need to read some actual history books. Southern Pride isn't all about slavery. Why do you think a lot of Texas people want the state to become its own sovereign nation? Not because they want slavery. Slavery just happened to be in the Southern part of US, but it had been going on for hundreds of years in other countries...and by no means can you equate slavery to mass genocide.

If you want to start talking about slavery, I'm was born in WV, and there hasn't been a state SINCE the Civil War with more legalized slavery than WV. For those of you who know nothing about coal mining, back in the day miners were paid with scrip...which was not a legal tender. Each coal company had its own scrip, so while you got paid, you could only buy your things from that company store, etc. Once you left, that scrip was worthless (unless you are selling on eBay now. :fro: ). So, basically, coal miners of the time were indentured servants.

Also, most people have no idea where the term "redneck" originates from. Again...from coal mining.

Can we get back to "hipsters" or whatever. This is getting a little out of hand. Moderator? Anyone?

 

[amfukuda]

I kinda love how the op just wanted to share a funny video and inadvertently spawned the great. Redneck,Hitler,hipster riots


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[fredthecat]

lol thread is beaten to death i can assume, but in response to first video, heh amusing video.. and yeah, i think when i first realized there was a world of sweet beer out there i was a litttle like that, but now i brew my own and keep it to myself. everyone's young once upon a time. however i do hear rumours of some serious *****ebaggery by one upping hipsters these days.

 

[Dutchbier]

Hipster #1: Here try this Southern Pride Pale Ale.
Hipster #2 : I like the floral hop notes. But now I have cotton mouth.
Bar tender: You fellars best move along before the homebrewtalk guys git here.

 

[jglazer]

Hipster #1: Here try this Southern Pride Pale Ale.
Hipster #2 : I like the floral hop notes. But now I have cotton mouth.
Bar tender: You fellars best move along before the homebrewtalk guys git here.

Bahaha love this

 

[roastquake]

and by no means can you equate slavery to mass genocide.

I tried to think of something clever to refute that equation, but really it's just offensive

 

[jglazer]

WOW...some people really need to read some actual history books. Southern Pride isn't all about slavery. Why do you think a lot of Texas people want the state to become its own sovereign nation? Not because they want slavery. Slavery just happened to be in the Southern part of US, but it had been going on for hundreds of years in other countries...and by no means can you equate slavery to mass genocide.

If you want to start talking about slavery, I'm was born in WV, and there hasn't been a state SINCE the Civil War with more legalized slavery than WV. For those of you who know nothing about coal mining, back in the day miners were paid with scrip...which was not a legal tender. Each coal company had its own scrip, so while you got paid, you could only buy your things from that company store, etc. Once you left, that scrip was worthless (unless you are selling on eBay now. :fro: ). So, basically, coal miners of the time were indentured servants.

Also, most people have no idea where the term "redneck" originates from. Again...from coal mining.

Can we get back to "hipsters" or whatever. This is getting a little out of hand. Moderator? Anyone?

haha please know I am not trying to egg anyone on or stir rage from deep inside, if you think I am assuming anything I am really not, I just didn't know much about it and was curious about the reasons. If you look back through the thread I never try and antagonize anyone, I truly try and have legitimate conversations with everyone here. I could have googled it but someone's personal answer usual tells us so much more. But thanks for your reply, now I know a little bit more of where it comes from even if I had to read through the anger oh and thats why I didn't mention slavery in my question, I didn't want to assume, there are a lot of other (assumingly false) stereotypes about the confederate flag other than slavery

sorry I offended you

 

[Teromous]

Also, most people have no idea where the term "redneck" originates from. Again...from coal mining.

I grew up being taught that a redneck was a field hand or farmer. You knew who worked in the fields because they usually had a red neck and farmer's tan (only arms to sleeves, or stripes from overalls) from working in the sun all day. I guess meanings do change depending on where you live though.

 

[jglazer]

I kinda love how the op just wanted to share a funny video and inadvertently spawned the great. Redneck,Hitler,hipster riots


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Haha I know...its one of the reasons I love HBT. I mean lets be honest, how many replies can a post get about a funny hipters video...but these organic conversations that evolve deep within random posts are amazing!