Aquaponic Hops

[WortMonger]

Ok, checked the hops the other day and the ones in the ground have bines on one of the rhizomes. The cascade has broken ground in two different places on the rhizome. So, I'm thinking since the hops in the ayatem haven't made any progess yet that they are going to leave. I am now thinking about starting cuttings from the first bines from the cascade plant. I wonder though, when do I take the bines? Do I trust taking a big bine with two smaller ones still left behind if I decide to cut? I have taken cutting of plants before and had them root, but I thought it impossible to do hops in such a way. I am reading the propagating from cuttings forum as well, just wonder in my specific case for this write-up.

Oh, and I opened the biofilter the other day just to check if I had a bunch of worms in the pump screen. Nothing! Absolutely nothing in the biofilter! They must be deep in it loving it or else they would be dead in the pump screen. I'm a happy man. Worms are awesome. I have a flower blooming on my sweet bell as well. New growth on all the plants, but there is a lighter green happening in things. This is probably due to the tank being so large so nitrate build up might take a while longer. I added more fish so it should boost pretty quickly.

 

[kenche]

subscribed - interesting thread

 

[bendavanza]

In your filter, did you use any foam type layers? This is a cool project.

 

[WortMonger]

I didn't use anything but PVC tubing and granite gravel. Granite being a good but heavy inert rock. Limestone gravel makes for tricky pH problems. We used to use the foam in the garden koi pond, but foam makes for stopped up pumps a lot. I decided to leave the foam out of this project. I was worried when I added the worms to the bio-filter bucket that they would all get sucked out, do to no foam as a barrier to the pump. They are fine though, and so it is not needed.

 

[rsmith179]

Bad ass! I have been very interested in Aquaponics for quite some time. There is a university in the Virgin Islands that has a huge aquaponics setup. They grow tilapia in the tanks along with the veggies. Dual-crop system. And as you said, the best part is it is a 100% closed system. No wasting water, just topping off every once in a while.

I have done this on a much smaller scale, but with amazing results. Actually built a small stand above a 10-gallon tank and allowed the plants to grow directly above the water. I must say, the water quality was amazing after adding the plants. It's a perfect little ecosystem. This, my friend, is the future of farming!

 

[WortMonger]

I am loving this setup. I have wanted to this for way too many years to count it seems. I am getting really excited about my ground bound hops coming up. I'm waiting to cut them off for the AP system. Just a little longer and I will feel comfortable to take a cutting or two. I'm thinking about wrapping the hop location on the PVC with layers of Saran Wrap after the planting and initial watering. This should protect it from intense sunlight and keep it moist in the gravel. I can also see into the planter well enough to see new growth, and to know when to start unlayering the planter slowly over the weeks when ready.

 

[eriktlupus]

i've had good luck just burying a bine at a leaf junction while still attached to the rhizome. a week or so and rootlets start forming cut and transplant.

 

[Cold_Steel]

Im ready for some up date photos

 

[Brewing Clamper]

seriously, I wanna see more pics...

 

[WortMonger]

Oh Yeah! You do? Well then... look at my pretty pictures you impatient bastards and bastradesses. I am sooooo happy guys. You guys know I love ya right, so I keeeed, I keeed ju!

and pictures...

Look at all this new growth and flowers forming on the peppers and squash.

Ok, I feel like a Bob Ross moment, (all take a moment of silence to remember The Man) and say, "Look at the beautiful little fishes just swimming around in their happy little bubbles with their happy little fins. We'll just paint some food there for them. They look like happy hungry little fish."

And we have limping... damn this rainy weather and unlevel squishy ground. Next year I am making a tank foundation.

Another view

Remember the original batch? This is still hanging on and finally producing bigger leaves. LOL a stick Roma tomato variety perhaps... definitely a tough little bugger.

Sweet bell pepper flowers.

You can see the plants get plenty of water even though it looks like just a trickle on the exit end. The water just burps into the grow-beds and you can constantly see crap from the bottom of the pond entering the beds for worm food. By the way, haven't found any dead worms yet. Actually, it's like they don't exist but my coffee ground keep disappearing.

Okra

and more okra... I love okra!!!

 

[WortMonger]

I keep finding these bugs on my plants. Does anyone have a clue if they are good or bad? I also have black ants.

My rain catching/de-chlorinating top-up reservoir.

Ok, here's a pic of the soon to be aquaponic hops. I really wish this was a thread about aquaponic hops, lol. It is about 9" tall now and I am still debating the best way to propagate it. I'm having to be very frugal as it is the only shoots on and out of 4 rhizomes. Cascade seems to like Oklahoma. I promise I will get there... I promise!!!

And one more of the Habanero as she looked yesterday. The original jalapeño's are still there, just not as nice looking as this baby.

The system has been great and still running non-stop. The plants are losing their yellowing and starting to deep green nicely. I think the daily dumping of 3-4 gallons in each tube has really introduced a lot of the worm castings out of the gravel and into the tank, and so back into the grow-beds. So, anyone have any questions or anything about things I may not have covered?

 

[eriktlupus]

that yello and black bug looks like a potato beetle and next to it is some mosquito larvae. a piece of door screen stretched over your non-fish supporting water will prevent the mosquito's from laying eggs in them. aeration by spray is also an option to keep the little bastiges away from the water surface. not a big problem in your maintank as the fish will eat the larvae.

 

[WortMonger]

Found it on a OSU site. It is a cucumber beetle, very similar to the Colorado Potato Beetle. You know, I was taking the picture of the beetle and didn't even notice the larvae, lol. Well, reading it seems like I can control bugs well with picking and squishing. Aphids, however, are going to be a problem though. Were are my friends the lady bugs? I need them to be eating their 50-60 aphids a day.

The screen is a great idea and I will look into that tomorrow. Thanks Erik.

 

[WortMonger]

Well, sort of LOL. I was able to take bine cuttings yesterday before the rain hit. It worked out perfect and they are doing great today. One slumped a little yesterday but by night it had curled back and wasn't limp anymore.

Here they are for their aquaponic début! Both Cascade bine cuttings, with the larger slumping as I had mentioned. At picture-time I was really worried about the big boy I had waited so long to cut. Wouldn't you be a little frightened as well?

Here's an up-close of the cuttings. I simple poked a hole in the bottom of a styrofoam cup and filled it with gravel. It held last night in gusts up to 75MPH, so... yeah I'm happy!

I trimmed off 3 sets of leaves on the tallest cutting and two sets on the other after cutting them at the base 45*.

Here is the Cascade planter after culling bines. I threw the leaves back in for worms to eat or to decompose.

OMG, when I went to take my one bine from the Cascade, I look and there was another long enough shoot (BONUS 1 yay). Well, I look down on the MT. Hood planter and damned if it didn't have this shooting out. Nothing forevere and then this. I'm a really happy camper.

Then, the biggest piece of good news, or a glimmer of hope if you can call it that too! I dig up gently my Zeus rhizome so I can prepare the space for my new cuttings eventually, and I'll be damned if the whole thing was rotted except a section at the bottom that had a couple of rootlets heading down. I went ahead and put it in the soil in front of another window on the house. If she grows then that will give off a great amount of shade in the heat of the summer. They were right about the toms too, I have roots sticking out of my drain on one grow-tube now. They will be moving shortly to another place to grow. If it sounds like I'm bitching... I'm not, I'm pumped!!!!

 

[Mutilated1]

Wow this is a fascinating idea. I have to try this. I really like plants and gardening and I like fish a lot too so this is perfect. I think I can recycle or find most of the stuff around the house somewhere. Just need to find something to use for the fish tank.

Can you just use regular pea-gravel like from a driveway for the grow bed ? I was thinking maybe a 4 foot diameter kiddy pool filled with the pea gravel might be something good to grow in.

Also How big does the fish tank have to be ?

 

[WortMonger]

Rule of thumb for aquaponics is 1# fish/2 gallons water (in the tank)/4 gallons of grow medium. More water than you need is no problem, but if you have more fish than your system can handle then you won't get all the ammonia changed and removed from your setup. It is good to have overkill for bio-filtration media as well. Remember, just a few fish produce enough nitrogen for your plants so they are the main concern. As for the gravel, limestone gravel isn't good because it will mess up the pH of the water. You need inert media in place of soil. Lava rocks, granite, expanded clay, etc... are all good choices. Granite is heavy but was cheap for me. Lava rocks are best IMHO due to porosity and light weight. You don't want the rocks too big or too small when you order them. I chose 1/2", and I have anywhere from that size to granite dirt in the grow-beds. Also to everyone reading, make a grow-bed not a grow-tube. I am missing some of my bio-filtration, due to the limitations of the grow-tubes over what flat bottomed grow-beds can do for you. Your kiddy pool would be great! I thought about the blue one in the pictures, and next year it will be added to the system.

 

[Mutilated1]

Ah I see. So if I used like a 90 gallon garbage can for a tank, then I could probably have 30-40 fish in there, but then I'd guess I would need something bigger than a kiddy pool to grow plants in, and a kiddy pool is just the right size to fit on top of the platform I already have - so I guess its best to have fewer fish.

This is a really neat idea. I'm going to try it this summer, and if it works out reasonably well maybe next year I will build something nicer looking. If you wanted to, you could make a really nice looking pond with like a fountain and stuff to go with it -- kind of like a water feature/bird bath/fish pond that just happens to grow veggies too. Getting way ahead of myself though, for this year I'm thinking kiddy pool on top of a work bench platform, garbage bin for water and fish, and a recycled swimming pool pump and hoses to make it go. Maybe install a drain in the bottom of the kiddy pool to drain back into the fish tank, and buy a few feet of PVC pipe to rig up some kind of watering system on top of the kiddy pool.

Your pictures are really cool - I can't wait to try this.

 

[WortMonger]

You have the right idea! There are complete home water feature systems. Some even have chlorine-free swimming pools in the loop. The system actually cleans the water for swimming. Some of the AP guys use the exact sand filters for their filtration. There are too many multi-use possibilities to mention. I do think Rubbermaid trash cans and kiddy pools would be a really cheap start for anyone. PVC is to cheap to not use for everything as well. I'm liking the idea for next time to use two tanks. Put one on either end of the grow-bed(s) (I'm using the tubes for leafy veggies next year) and connect them so they are always wanting to equalize volume. Pump from one and go to the beds, then the other tank wants to fill the one being pumped from. In turn it is constantly being filled from the first tank from the top. In the non-pumped tank, I will install a false bottom above the drain and fill with gravel. This makes for a massive amount of bio-filtration and then you would just keep adding on as you needed to for fish tanks and grow beds until you reached the limiting ratio. See, I'm already obsessed with next years build, lol.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What you are doing is truly remarkable.

If I did this however, I think I'd have every cat within 3 blocks fed before the weeks end.

 

[WortMonger]

Thanks Gila!

LOL, you would need a screen then. I have only lost a few fish to unknown things, and as soon as I can get everything situated on the tank I will add a screen to mine.

 

[Mutilated1]

What are you planning on doing over the winter when it gets colder ?

 

[WortMonger]

Barley, wheat, and brussel sprouts. The goldies should overwinter in the tank, and the movement should prevent solid freezing of anything. I'm also thinking about wrapping the white tubes in black wrap for extra heat. Barley is supposed to be a great "nitrate filter," and it grows better/only in colder climates.

As for the worms, I plan on tricking them into real composter bins with food after harvesting all the summer plants. Some will stay, most will go for the bread in the composter. They love bread like Tyrone Biggums likes his crack.

I will do the same for the bio-filter bucket, with the exception that the entire bucket will be replaced with a new gravel bucket (worm-less until next grow season) and left to run to suck up and store worm food for next year. Then I will add the worms and plants back same as this year, and it will have gone full circle.

You guys all need manure worm compost bins IMHO. These things are great for everything from "all" your house wastes, down to just a small coffee grounds and bread only "little" system. These worms, when happy, eat their weight in food everyday and make 100% water soluble 1-0-0 NPK fertilizer that is impossible to burn your plants with. Worm poop is the perfect nitrogen fertilizer, even surpassing guano for the simple fact of it's non-burning traits.

I'm doing a 7-11 Big Gulp worm bin for indoors this year. I won't even make it to the ceiling stacking these cups upon themselves for a worm bin, so that is pretty space efficient. Basically cups with holes in the bottom, filled with a little bedding (damp not wet shredded paper), and then add food on top placing more bedding on top of that. Close it off from light since they hate it, and make sure any air holes are small enough for gnats/flies/insects to not make it inside. They don't stink when you do it right, and makes your garbage work for you.

I composted an entire years paperwork that filled a 55 gallon garbage can into a large coffee can of pure compost. My parents were amazed. If I had used that same paperwork (for bedding only for my worms) and done vermicomposting on the same pile of paperwork, I would have been able to make 10 times as much compost. This is because I would have fed them all the other trash as well that was edible. So, we threw away all that fertilizer in my mind, and the trash stunk up the garage until trash day. Seems win-win-win to me. I'm using beer boxes as my bedding this year for my worms. I have about 30#'s of beer trash stacked up waiting to be eaten. The cans are getting melted down as soon as I complete my foundry. Now to recycle glass and I will have a curbside trash can the size of a coffee can, lol. Well, I can wish anyways.

I'm not even one of those greenies that has to "watch the planet" with everything they do. I just think it is fun. Al Gore can kiss my grits, a volcano does more damage then You or I ever would to this planet. I just hate looking at trash, and dumps are just that, DUMPS! Must be the Eagle Scout in me .

 

[Mutilated1]

Have you thought about using any kind of fish other than gold fish ?

I'm going to start mine with goldfish or maybe Bream and minnows cause I can get them cheap and easy, but it would be great to be able to harvest fish out of it too.

 

[WortMonger]

Yes, goldies are just easier now. Check out www.backyardaquaponics.com. Everything you could ever want to know, or ask. Minnows are a great idea, cheap.

 

[pilotdane]

You have never seen such a funny sight as they day, several years ago, when my wife came home from work all excited to show me her worms. "They are not normal worms. They are special composting worms". So I just nodded and smiled. Yep, those are mighty fine worms...

 

[WortMonger]

LOL, "Those are some mighty fine worms!" LOL Funny is that I am as giddy as she was then, NOW!!! They are just frickin' worms but... too cool. OK I'm officially a dork now, but I will fly that flag proudly and eat my veggies made from worm poopie.

 

[WortMonger]

OK, got in from my weekend trip and checked the fish tank. Man, is this thing clear as crystal. I can see I am missing some fish and need to get a screen tomorrow, lol. I will wake up early and try to take some picture for you guys. The growth these plants put on in the last two days is amazing. Almost everything is dark green, the exception being a pepper plant I need to look into in the light tomorrow. I am dumbfounded. The hops are growing like crazy on the side of the house and don't even look like a cut into them at all. My cuttings are all pointed up and very healthy looking.

I cannot believe this is working as good as it is for me my first time out. The cuttings give me hope for using the tubes next year, and just cloning 36 new hops plants. I am going nuts thinking about the possibilities. I'm going to try to clone the white oak tree in the front yard I think.

 

[scinerd3000]

The cans are getting melted down as soon as I complete my foundry

dude...tell me more. Thats sweet but what exactly are you going to melt them into? DETAILS Man...!

 

[WortMonger]

Here's a link to the thread pizzaman started about foundry work. This way this thread can stay on topic, well as much as I ever stay on topic, LOL. Melting metal is fun!!! Dangerous, but fun.

 

[WortMonger]

Alright guys, the newest pics since I made it back from Edmond this weekend.

First off, and most important since the thread is named for it, the hop cuttings I took last week.

Here's the trellis system I built. Still needs some structural support but will work nicely for what I am doing.

Here's the "stick" Roma tomato that keeps surviving. Tough little bugger.

Squash forming nicely.

Bell peppers forming very nicely. These smell great already.

Habanero is yellow on older leaves, but the new growth is all dark like the rest of the garden. Weird stuff going on here.

 

[WortMonger]

I got the 1st set of strings tied up to the trellis for support and to start vertical growing. Looking good, really good. Water is still like crystal and the fish are fat!!! I think the hops are loving their rooting cups, since they are still not drooping. They look like they are in suspended animation or something. They aren't growing, they aren't dying, they aren't anything except the exact same as when I planted them. I'm giving them another full week (for a total of 2 weeks in the cups) before I check them for roots. I feel that is enough time to see. What do you guys think?

 

[buzzkill]

as long as they are green they are good...

they been riding the storms out..:cross:

 

[WortMonger]

Acually, yes! The night I took the cuttings we had 75 MPH winds around Ada. I watched the flagstick behind my parents house on the golf course bend over and touch the green, almost. I had never seen that before. So I braved the rain to get home only to watch the plants bend in the wind. They all made it unscathed. The cups I put them in and the protection around them really helped them withstand the fury. Now that they are all strung up with lines I bet they are even more protected from winds. Hail can keep staying away though. That's bad little stuff isn't it, here in Oklahoma?

 

[illin8]

Dude, I just have to say...

This is friggin' awesome...my wife is gonna kill me when I get home and tell her about a new NEW soon-to-be hobby...LOL

 

[WortMonger]

LOL, well put it too her like this; Worms are cheap, feeder goldfish are cheap, Rubbermaid trashcans are cheap, PVC is cheap (not the cap ends on the big stuff though $$$), gravel is cheap, water is cheap, the pumps (air and garden fountain) are cheap, seeds are really cheap (so are greenhouse starts), and fish food is cheap. Cheap the whole way around, and then compare what you grew to organic prices in the supermarket... goldmine! I think the hardest sell is the way it looks. Kinda trashy for a nice neighborhood, but behind a privacy fence who cares? Notice we have chain link... our neighbors love us I bet, lol.

I will be weighing everything that comes off the garden, and totaling with compared value just to see my savings. I want to document everything here in this thread. Cannot wait to see the monetary value of vegetable matter/possible hop propagation sales. I'm wondering what 36 Cascade cuttings can produce this next year in sell-able plants for others. I can only imagine.

 

[fred_zepp]

dude...this is way too cool. i was already thinking of building a pond this fall to catch all the rain water and help keep the hop yard from being way too soggy this winter. maybe the pond will have some alternate uses as well. hmm...

 

[southern brewer]

Don't forget to take into account that next season, you won't have nearly as much of a cost to get started. Unless you expand of course. otherwise you'll just replace your worms (maybe), get some more fish (maybe), and some seeds. thats where the real savings would start to show.

 

[WortMonger]

dude...this is way too cool. i was already thinking of building a pond this fall to catch all the rain water and help keep the hop yard from being way too soggy this winter. maybe the pond will have some alternate uses as well. hmm...

My grandfather always had a tank with goldfish in it that he watered from. Now, I know why. I think a couple of tanks that kept the fish tank full would be a great idea. Water from the fish tank, then refill with rainwater.

Don't forget to take into account that next season, you won't have nearly as much of a cost to get started. Unless you expand of course. otherwise you'll just replace your worms (maybe), get some more fish (maybe), and some seeds. thats where the real savings would start to show.

Exactly!!! All the animals mentioned are easily saved from the cold by either simple harvest or by being able to over-winter in the tank. You can freeze goldfish and they will come back. The worms won't be as tolerant of the cold, but bread is the key to getting them into whatever container I want them in. Then, I can continue to use them indoors composting and propagating for the next season.

 

[Dig]

Man, WhereTF have I been!!! I gotta say that I absolutely love your projects, all of 'em.

Your plants want more nitrogen. That is why there is a general yellowing, of all your plants, from bottom to top.

When winter comes I would suggest that you mothball the thing. Put your fish in a fish tank. Nothing likes to grow if their roots are cold. Luckily you live in a place with 8 months worth of grow time.

You need a trellis for all of your plants. It helps all around.



Do you know the temps of your water? Or the pH of the water?


I NEED to come to Oklahoma. Ya see, I know a guy there

 

[WortMonger]

So, yure sayin' I need more of them fishes? WTF is up brother? You need to come to Oklahoma badly, and yes... you do know a guy there! I just trellised the plants yesterday, and they are really sturdy now. I used the Florida Weave technique. The goldfish will survive in the tank over winter, they stop eating and moving a lot at 40*F. You can freeze these bad boys and they can survive. I agree with the crops, but I plan on trying cereal grasses just for a fun winter crop. As for the pH and the water temperature, I have no idea. I am buying a nitrogen test kit and a floating thermometer. I also have access to pH paper, but I am pretty sure my water is good. It is fricken crystal clear and smells clean as well.

Justin,
Check out my kilted pics from this past weekend, you're going to love them. Go to post #221. That's my Casey starting off the pictures. Also, have you broke out your wedding gift yet? LOL, if not, I can't wait till you do! Hope you get back on to respond.