Apple Cider with Wild Yeast

[smadaus]

I made a cider with the natural bugs on the apples. Do I need to worry about killing the wild yeast before I siphon. Sorry I don't know much about wild yeast but I keep worrying that it's similar to bacteria in the sense that it can affect other batches and you should use separate equipment. Thanks.

 

[dmtaylor]

Your hoses and any plastic or rubber components coming into contact with the wild cider should be dedicated to that purpose only. Otherwise you might contaminate other batches. However for the purposes of this one batch, there is nothing special you need to do prior to bottling or kegging.

 

[smadaus]

Is there a way to kill off the yeast so that I could use my regular equipment? My problem is that I would like to keg it and I don't necessarily want to dedicate a keg to wild yeast.

 

[paneubert]

You can roll the dice and see if the next batch comes out "clean". If you start to notice funky stuff going on with your subsequent batches, then best you can do for that keg is replace all the O-rings and sanitize it really well. Not hard to sanitize your metal parts, but the plastic and rubber is a lot harder (as @dmtaylor said).

 

[Maylar]

The only contamination that I would worry about is acetobacter. If your wild cider has even a hint of vinegar you should keep a separate set of tools dedicated to that. If the cider is clean there's no worry, it's just another yeast.

 

[smadaus]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

 

[bernardsmith]

Your hoses and any plastic or rubber components coming into contact with the wild cider should be dedicated to that purpose only. Otherwise you might contaminate other batches. However for the purposes of this one batch, there is nothing special you need to do prior to bottling or kegging.

so here is my ignorance. Why should indigenous (wild ) yeast be somehow more "contaminating" than lab cultured yeast such that you need to have dedicated equipment to handle those guys? This is not a souring exercise. There are no obvious sources of lacto or pedo bacteria involved here. And why should there be more of a concern about acetobacter - the source of vinegar - if there is no oxygen around after all the sugar has been fermented out? You need oxygen, alcohol, no sugar AND acetobacter to produce vinegar. Indigenous yeast , like lab cultured yeast simply produce alcohol - although they may also produce off flavors and may not always have the virility to ferment a high SG wine brut dry.

 

[dmtaylor]

so here is my ignorance. Why should indigenous (wild ) yeast be somehow more "contaminating" than lab cultured yeast such that you need to have dedicated equipment to handle those guys? This is not a souring exercise. There are no obvious sources of lacto or pedo bacteria involved here. And why should there be more of a concern about acetobacter - the source of vinegar - if there is no oxygen around after all the sugar has been fermented out? You need oxygen, alcohol, no sugar AND acetobacter to produce vinegar. Indigenous yeast , like lab cultured yeast simply produce alcohol - although they may also produce off flavors and may not always have the virility to ferment a high SG wine brut dry.

There can be all sorts of critters in a wild fermentation, all the ones you mentioned and then some. If you enjoy everything you ferment with random organisms every time, good for you. I like control. Also, personally I use the same equipment for both cider, beer, and mead. I wouldn't want weird wild cider organisms messing up any other of my fermented beverages. I want what I want, and I don't want every beverage I make fermented by wild organisms. Plastic and rubber components can sometimes harbor these organisms that I don't want to show up in a surprising manner. Can you sanitize plastics and rubbers? To a point, maybe you can. But not very well.

I actually agree with you regarding acetobacter. If there's no oxygen, there's no acetification. That is true. The trouble is when you do detect any acetification, those bugs won't want to leave any plastics or rubbers as I stated above.

 

[Steveruch]

The biggest problem in using wild yeast is that it's really hard to replicate it if a batch comes out good.

 

[smadaus]

So i have read that you can use campden tabs to kills off wild yeast before fermentation. Can you also use it after to kill off any organisms in there and make it a clean cider?

 

[paneubert]

Campden knocks down existing yeast somewhat, but is unreliable when you want to completely stop things. Think of it more like punching the yeast in the face. It knocks them out for a while, but they wake back up. This is why it is good for use when you want to delay adding "good yeast" into something you know or think might have wild/bad yeast on it. You toss some campden to stun the existing yeast, gain yourself some time (24 to 48 hours) to do whatever else you have going on in your life, add your new/good yeast, and that good/new yeast beats out the old/stunned yeast. Like the new yeast sees the old yeast passed out from your head shot and decides to smoother the old yeast with a pillow while he is still passed out. Graphic....I know.

In this story, sorbate, if you wanted to add it, is represented by a vasectomy on the old yeast. He cant make any more babies, but if someone doesn't smoother him while he is passed out, he will wake up and still be alive and breathing. Just no new kids from him.

 

[smadaus]

Good analogy lol. I am going to just use a separate siphon and tubing. I have some potassium sorbate that I could add as well, not sure if I want to use it or not. I appreciate all the comments though.