I brewed this beer. Although, everyone loved it, I thought all that citra gave it a really funky flavor. It wasn't my favorite and didn't remind me of the sunshine ale I had had prior. But, I took it to an informal club beer comp and it placed 3rd in an open competition out of 15 or so beers, and I had people asking me for the recipe and were shocked to hear that it only had citra in it. So, what do I know.
Anyone try the double sunshine clone recipe from BYO?
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OP
OP
I'm sort of in agreement.
I brewed three from that issue: ds, Abner and heady though I used the hbt recipe for heady.
Of the three Abner was my favorite. Love the centennial hops. I had previously brewed an all citra IPA that was sort of meh to me. The DS recipe is nice but won't be brewing again.
TD
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I brewed three from that issue: ds, Abner and heady though I used the hbt recipe for heady.
Of the three Abner was my favorite. Love the centennial hops. I had previously brewed an all citra IPA that was sort of meh to me. The DS recipe is nice but won't be brewing again.
TD
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
I've done the Heady one 3 times and the double sunshine twice..... third time coming up. I have abner clone in the fermenter right now.... so, glad to hear you liked that one. I like the DS beer better than the HT clone so far. They all seem like good recipes though.
yes - i used pellets. recipe does not specify - but that would be a lot of leaf hops - it would soak up a lot of beer.
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
Right... I was just thinking whirlpool or dry hops.
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
The Double Sunshine clone is pretty much my "go to" house IPA now. I really like it, as does everyone else. I thought the Abner was "ok"....... I really felt it came off a bit harsh. Just seemed like the Chinook overpowered it a bit. It was a nice, crisp, clean IPA...... Just too much chinook for me personally. It did score a 38 in a recent comp, but have not seen the scoresheet yet. I will probably brew another of the double sunshine clone soon as I just ran out of keg #3.......
OP
OP
Do you brew that as a double IPA? I find it pretty tough to drink two in one session without overdoing it.
At any rate, I really enjoyed the Abner. I just love the centennial hops.
I've brewed two Citra IPA recipes so far. This one much like the first I am not blown away with. Good but I'm wanting something else. I have a full keg left that hasn't been tapped yet, first keg is done. It was brewed in MAY. I'm thinking to dry hop it for five days or so before tapping the second keg. Any other hops that might compliment Citra or contrast with Citra in a nice way as a dry hop? I don't have any more Citra hops on had but lots of other stuff, so shoot if you have tried something that was great along with Citra.
I brewed a stone enjoy by clone with their initial hop lineup and had some leftovers. I ended up throwing those all together and dry hopping my second HT keg for five days and really really happy with how that one turned out. Still plenty of it left too.
TD
Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
At any rate, I really enjoyed the Abner. I just love the centennial hops.
I've brewed two Citra IPA recipes so far. This one much like the first I am not blown away with. Good but I'm wanting something else. I have a full keg left that hasn't been tapped yet, first keg is done. It was brewed in MAY. I'm thinking to dry hop it for five days or so before tapping the second keg. Any other hops that might compliment Citra or contrast with Citra in a nice way as a dry hop? I don't have any more Citra hops on had but lots of other stuff, so shoot if you have tried something that was great along with Citra.
I brewed a stone enjoy by clone with their initial hop lineup and had some leftovers. I ended up throwing those all together and dry hopping my second HT keg for five days and really really happy with how that one turned out. Still plenty of it left too.
TD
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I brew it to about 1.065-1.070 gravity probably..... so, more of an IPA than a DIPA. 2-3 is usually about plenty. I am still in pursuit of the "great" 1.045 IPA......... It is a hell of a lot harder to pull off than one would think, that is for sure. It is not as simple as just scaling everything down.
As for a possible dry hop - Mosaic perhaps would be a good combo. Amarillo maybe. I like Columbus quite a bit, but not everyone does.
As for a possible dry hop - Mosaic perhaps would be a good combo. Amarillo maybe. I like Columbus quite a bit, but not everyone does.
ryancrook
Well-Known Member
I've brewed the BYO recipe and ended up with an IPA. I submitted it to a competition as such and it took 2nd place out of 49 entries. An excellent recipe!
OP
OP
So how do you all conduct the late hop additions??
Right at flameout! Then begin chilling immediately, or something different?
TD
Right at flameout! Then begin chilling immediately, or something different?
TD
I have brewed this about 5 times now...... basically, it has turned into my "house" IPA. This is what I have been doing for hops:
1 oz. columbus 60 min.
1.5 oz. Citra 15 min.
3 oz. Citra 5 min.
3 oz. Citra flame out
3 oz. Citra dry hop (3 days)
**6.5 gallon batch
The flame out addition I put in and start the immersion chiller for about 3-4 minutes, then shut it off. I then swirl the wort with the chiller for 20-30 seconds with the chiller and put the lid on and let it sit. I don't know what the precise temp is, but I am assuming around 180, give or take a bit. I then just let it sit while I do some cleaning, organizing, pouring myself a beer, etc.
After 20 minutes or so, I start the chiller again and let it chill until it gets down into the 60's. I shut off the chiller, unhook it, finish putting away whatever I can. then I go take a shower to give it some more contact time with the hops, but also to let the hops settle out to the bottom of my kettle. After than, I come back and drain into fermenter. Oxygenate, and it is good to go. Only thing I really have left to do at that point is clean my chiller and boil kettle - everything else is done.
Basically, I just try to let all those late hops have 40-60 minutes of contact time before it hits the fermenter. Nothing precise or scientific about it - just giving it some time at 180ish and also as it cools further.
1 oz. columbus 60 min.
1.5 oz. Citra 15 min.
3 oz. Citra 5 min.
3 oz. Citra flame out
3 oz. Citra dry hop (3 days)
**6.5 gallon batch
The flame out addition I put in and start the immersion chiller for about 3-4 minutes, then shut it off. I then swirl the wort with the chiller for 20-30 seconds with the chiller and put the lid on and let it sit. I don't know what the precise temp is, but I am assuming around 180, give or take a bit. I then just let it sit while I do some cleaning, organizing, pouring myself a beer, etc.
After 20 minutes or so, I start the chiller again and let it chill until it gets down into the 60's. I shut off the chiller, unhook it, finish putting away whatever I can. then I go take a shower to give it some more contact time with the hops, but also to let the hops settle out to the bottom of my kettle. After than, I come back and drain into fermenter. Oxygenate, and it is good to go. Only thing I really have left to do at that point is clean my chiller and boil kettle - everything else is done.
Basically, I just try to let all those late hops have 40-60 minutes of contact time before it hits the fermenter. Nothing precise or scientific about it - just giving it some time at 180ish and also as it cools further.
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
Braufessor, is there a reason you only dry hop 3 days? Would 4-6 give more aroma?
From some things I have read, listened to on podcasts, interviews with brewers, and just stuff on AHA forum and here from other folks I respect........ plus, experimenting myself, I have found 3-4 days to give all the hop flavor and avoids any "grassy/vegetal" type flavors.
From much of what I have seen recently, it seems that is what many people are moving toward.
I have also tried a short double dry hop in my last Heady clone...... half the dry hop into the primary for 3 days. then, the other half of the dry hop for 3 days in the keg and take it out.
The longer contact times (I think) can give grassy/vegetal/harsher hop flavors. More hops, short burst, seems like it gives brighter, fruitier hop flavors.
From much of what I have seen recently, it seems that is what many people are moving toward.
I have also tried a short double dry hop in my last Heady clone...... half the dry hop into the primary for 3 days. then, the other half of the dry hop for 3 days in the keg and take it out.
The longer contact times (I think) can give grassy/vegetal/harsher hop flavors. More hops, short burst, seems like it gives brighter, fruitier hop flavors.
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
Definitely worth a try then.
So you in your primary there is minimal hops/trub? You try to leave as much behind as possible in the brew pot? I don't have a spigot on my brew pot, would I hop spider be the way to go for me for filtering the hops? Or is there a better way/is that not a good way to keep the hops contacted with the wort?
So you in your primary there is minimal hops/trub? You try to leave as much behind as possible in the brew pot? I don't have a spigot on my brew pot, would I hop spider be the way to go for me for filtering the hops? Or is there a better way/is that not a good way to keep the hops contacted with the wort?
OP
OP
Agreed. I do five days now for dry hopping. For the love of hops book says the hop components are extracted much faster upon chemical analysis. Five days is probably overkill. But that's what I do.
When I brewed this, if I can recall, I split the flame out hops in half and chilled to 180° tossed them in for fifteen minutes then chilled to 160° tossed the other half in for fifteen minutes.
I think commericially is varies. I wonder if you get better extraction of certain flavors at higher temps than at lower temps. The next hoppy brew I'm doing I am going to chill and continue to chill and recirculate during the whirlpool for 30 minutes and add the hops after its at 205° and see what that does.
OP
OP
Some folks use a sanitized strainer funnel, some folks tie a hop sack to then end of their racking cane to filter out some trub and hops..
TD
ultravista
Well-Known Member
Subscribing
Everyone has what works best for them. I brew 6.5 gallon batches in a 10 gallon pot with a spigot - basically, I am planning to lose 1.5 gallons on most batches I brew by leaving beer behind in two stages. I have about .75 gallons of dead space under my spigot.
I have a hopspider/basket. I put 60 minute hops in this for sure. I also put in anything before about 10 minutes in the spider. This at least gets some of the hop particles out of the beer. I put my immersion chiller in with 15 minutes to go, and my hop spider/basket fits inside the immersion chiller so I put it back in for the remainder of the boil. When the boil finishes, I take the hop spider/basket out. I put my 5/0/whirlpool hops in free - as I want as much wort contact as possible.
With hoppy beers like this, I whirlpool it simply be stirring with my chiller and let everything settle (lid on). I will let my beer sit in my kettle with hops in it as it chills for 40-60 minutes so everything can settle out a lot. I will transfer to fermenter and leave .75 gallons and almost all of the hops/trub in my kettle. I ferment in SS Brew Buckets that have sort of a conicle bottom... I lose another .5 gallons of so that is left behind in my fermenter. Which is fine, because there is a lot of hops that settle out into the conicle, including any dry hops I add in primary. I have started doing more dryhopping in kegs using a stainless mesh tube from here: https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper
Stainless strainer can be sanitized and used to filter hop and trub as you drain from kettle.
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
That keg dry hopper is pretty slick! My grand father in law is getting me kegging equipment for Christmas and I'll have to pick that up.
As for leaving hops behind when transferring to the primary. Is it easiest to pour the wort through a big colander with a paint bag over it? Or do you think I should siphon from the brew kettle to secondary?
Thanks as always for your great insight!
As for leaving hops behind when transferring to the primary. Is it easiest to pour the wort through a big colander with a paint bag over it? Or do you think I should siphon from the brew kettle to secondary?
Thanks as always for your great insight!
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
I did just read this and I think for my next batch this is what I'm going to try to do:
I put a paint strainer bag over my bucket and a large metal strainer on top of that. Beers with a lot of hops will clog the paint strainer bag so I use sanitized brewing gloves to squeeze the last couple gallons of wort out of the bag. I tried siphoning it once with two paint strainer bags on the end of the siphon. It clogged really bad and ended up being more of a hassle than the other way.
For this, and other Imperial IPAs, this is probably better to have two layers of filtering.
I put a paint strainer bag over my bucket and a large metal strainer on top of that. Beers with a lot of hops will clog the paint strainer bag so I use sanitized brewing gloves to squeeze the last couple gallons of wort out of the bag. I tried siphoning it once with two paint strainer bags on the end of the siphon. It clogged really bad and ended up being more of a hassle than the other way.
For this, and other Imperial IPAs, this is probably better to have two layers of filtering.
OP
OP
Frankly it's probably not a big concern.
I read an article about separating the trub vs not, I think on reddit?? Anyways, I can't find the link for it now. There were BJCP certified tasters in a scientific head to head tasting of two identical pale ale beers brewed identically except for separation of trub. The results were that the tasters had a slight preference for the one with no trub separation.
You can use hop sacks if you like to contain the hop mass. Very easy.
The break material is difficult to separate without a proper whirlpool.
I always worry about the auto-siphon being contaminated so I'd never want to use it on fresh wort, but given the two options, I'd siphon because it's easier, assuming you can get a stainless racking wand primed.
TD
I read an article about separating the trub vs not, I think on reddit?? Anyways, I can't find the link for it now. There were BJCP certified tasters in a scientific head to head tasting of two identical pale ale beers brewed identically except for separation of trub. The results were that the tasters had a slight preference for the one with no trub separation.
You can use hop sacks if you like to contain the hop mass. Very easy.
The break material is difficult to separate without a proper whirlpool.
I always worry about the auto-siphon being contaminated so I'd never want to use it on fresh wort, but given the two options, I'd siphon because it's easier, assuming you can get a stainless racking wand primed.
TD
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
Braufessor,
Gotta ask, after brewing all these multiple times, do you still love the DS clone the best? Or are Abner and HT growing on you?
Gotta ask, after brewing all these multiple times, do you still love the DS clone the best? Or are Abner and HT growing on you?
On the one hand, I would say I do like the DS clone best..... however, that comes with a few disclaimers.
1.) I only brewed the Abner clone once, it did not turn out great, and I have not revisited it..... I did not have warrior to bitter and used a hopshot. Found the chinook to come off as a bit harsh for my tastes. It is one I need to rebrew and try it again - not fair to really dump on it after one batch that did not turn out as good as I wanted it to.
2.) Heady clone.... I still have not brewed one of these that really turned out great. They were all good. None tasted like Heady Topper. I still think it has promise, and I have some harvested Heady Topper yeast that I brewed a pale ale with - gonna try it again with a bigger pitch of this harvested yeast..... Still hoping to pull this beer off a little better.
3.) Even though I have brewed and like the DS clone.....I really like Citra hops a lot. Many don't. I also am not satisfied with it as my "go to" IPA..... I am still searching. I am going to brew "Hop Fu" recipe this weekend. It is probably the most successful beer/recipe in the history of National Homebrew competition.... winning gold in IPA 3 of the last 5 years plus a second place finish in there too...... figured it is worth a trial run at the very least.
I think they are all pretty good recipes, but (at least for me) I feel like I am still trying to really dial them in a bit more.....
How have your recent attempts turned out? Which have you liked best?
1.) I only brewed the Abner clone once, it did not turn out great, and I have not revisited it..... I did not have warrior to bitter and used a hopshot. Found the chinook to come off as a bit harsh for my tastes. It is one I need to rebrew and try it again - not fair to really dump on it after one batch that did not turn out as good as I wanted it to.
2.) Heady clone.... I still have not brewed one of these that really turned out great. They were all good. None tasted like Heady Topper. I still think it has promise, and I have some harvested Heady Topper yeast that I brewed a pale ale with - gonna try it again with a bigger pitch of this harvested yeast..... Still hoping to pull this beer off a little better.
3.) Even though I have brewed and like the DS clone.....I really like Citra hops a lot. Many don't. I also am not satisfied with it as my "go to" IPA..... I am still searching. I am going to brew "Hop Fu" recipe this weekend. It is probably the most successful beer/recipe in the history of National Homebrew competition.... winning gold in IPA 3 of the last 5 years plus a second place finish in there too...... figured it is worth a trial run at the very least.
I think they are all pretty good recipes, but (at least for me) I feel like I am still trying to really dial them in a bit more.....
How have your recent attempts turned out? Which have you liked best?
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
Very fair response indeed. I am very interested in his "hop fu" recipe. Is there a standard out there or multiple variations?
Unfortuntely for me brew wise (very fortunate for me personally), I had a son Thanksgiving last year and haven't brewed yet. I've been obsessed with Sip of Sunshine lately (enjoy it more than Heady) so my next recipe will be 1/3 parts cascade, chinook, and citra. I have all the ingredients However now I have too much snow to do anything!
Those are the woes of my life. Any chance you can post the Hop Fu recipe you are going to use?
Unfortuntely for me brew wise (very fortunate for me personally), I had a son Thanksgiving last year and haven't brewed yet. I've been obsessed with Sip of Sunshine lately (enjoy it more than Heady) so my next recipe will be 1/3 parts cascade, chinook, and citra. I have all the ingredients However now I have too much snow to do anything!
Those are the woes of my life. Any chance you can post the Hop Fu recipe you are going to use?
Congrats on the new addition
I am going to try to brew it precisely as is......I have never won a gold medal at NHC - Probably best I follow directions the first time through before changing anything up
They also had some details in the Zymurgy from this last october I believe in regard to water and dry hopping. Here is the recipe:
http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/2010/01/2014-nhc-category-14-india-pale-ale.html
* I am going to scale it down to 7 gallons and cut it in half.
I am going to try to brew it precisely as is......I have never won a gold medal at NHC - Probably best I follow directions the first time through before changing anything up
They also had some details in the Zymurgy from this last october I believe in regard to water and dry hopping. Here is the recipe:http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/2010/01/2014-nhc-category-14-india-pale-ale.html
* I am going to scale it down to 7 gallons and cut it in half.
tgmartin000
Well-Known Member
I also have hop fun on my to brew list. Kelsy is here on the forums, I've talked to him a few times. His session ale recipe won me a bronze at the state fair a few years back.
I saw that recipe thread I think - Collaboration brew with stone/ballast point or something like that..... that one is on the list for me as well. I have been brewing and rebrewing session IPA's for the past several months trying to find one that I really like.
OP
OP
Congrats on the new addition
I am going to try to brew it precisely as is......I have never won a gold medal at NHC - Probably best I follow directions the first time through before changing anything up
http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/2010/01/2014-nhc-category-14-india-pale-ale.html
* I am going to scale it down to 7 gallons and cut it in half.
What issue is that in? The link keeps puking in iPad HBT app.
I applied to enter NHC for first time this year. Never entered before. The IPA category is one of the most difficult due to number of entries I think.
I really liked the Abner clone of the thee being discussed here. It's one of my faves that I've ever brewed. I'll also say that I had a second keg of the HT clone that was old but untapped. About 8 months old since I brewed. I freshened it up with a 5 day dry hop using Galaxy and mosaic in the keg. That turned out really really good, and didn't last long...
I think I'm not a big fan of Citra. It seems to be highly variable in its flavor. I've done two all Citra IPAs into four kegs over last four years. All four kegs tasted different. The first two I did with the zombie dust clone recipe. I used cone hops to dry hop one carboy before kegging with a long contact time. That was the best one. The other half was dry hopped in carbing keg. It was meh.. The DS was quite tasty, but something was lacking that I cannot out a finger on.
As an aside, I recently did a few hoppy brews: two hearted clone (awesome!), hop rod rye clone (even more awesome), arrogant bastard clone (totally awesome!). I think I enjoy all of these more than the Vermont IPA series I did, except the abner, which I think was better than all. I think it's the piney flavors of the hops particular hops in abner that I like.
TD
OP
OP
How did you handle the late addition hops?
Me??
Lately, I've been taking the flame out hops and split into two piles.
After flame out I'll begin chilling and add one half the late hops after it hits 180°, and will usually be recirculating the wort or stirring. I sometimes let it dwell at 180 for 15 minutes and then chill to 160, and I sometimes continue chilling to 160 right away. Either way, I'll add the second half after it hits 160 and then turn off chilling. I'll give it 15 to 30 minutes at 160 to steep before chilling th rest of the way to pitch temp (or as close as I can get in FL).
TD
The september/october 2014 issue of Zymurgy has all the NHC winners from this past summer. The hop fu recipe is on page 68. (If you google Hop Fu Kelsey McNair you will also get links to the recipe.)
Page 57-59 there are some additional details on the recipe in an article/interview with Kelsey about his beer..... water stuff, dry hopping, etc.
OP
OP
Thanks.
I read that yesterday in the magazine. Very insightful. I wonder what he is using as a hop back for pellet hops... I have the HopRocket but its only for leaf hops AFAIK. Suppose I could use leaf hops, but some varieties are impossible to find as leaf. Regardless, this is on my possibly over-ambitious 2015 brew schedule. I was particularly interested in how he described the two-step dry hop process and gave kudos to V.C., which was in counterpoint to the method espoused (perhaps with some misleading info?) by The Alchemist head brewer, whom I believe said something like, "Never less than four days, and never more than 5". Regardless, I think that the combination of hops used in Hop Fu are reminiscent of the PtE and will play well together. There are a few in there that I think I've not tried before in combo. Will be nice to see.
TD
I read that yesterday in the magazine. Very insightful. I wonder what he is using as a hop back for pellet hops... I have the HopRocket but its only for leaf hops AFAIK. Suppose I could use leaf hops, but some varieties are impossible to find as leaf. Regardless, this is on my possibly over-ambitious 2015 brew schedule. I was particularly interested in how he described the two-step dry hop process and gave kudos to V.C., which was in counterpoint to the method espoused (perhaps with some misleading info?) by The Alchemist head brewer, whom I believe said something like, "Never less than four days, and never more than 5". Regardless, I think that the combination of hops used in Hop Fu are reminiscent of the PtE and will play well together. There are a few in there that I think I've not tried before in combo. Will be nice to see.
TD
I was looking at converting some of the LME to do more of a 5 lb partial mash using the BYO recipe. However, the carapils is not in the extract version. Was this conversion just grouped into the LME along with the 2-row? Or should it have been in the extract version and I just need to convert the 6.6 lbs of LME to some of the 2-row?
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
Braufessor, did you brew Hop Fu yet? Interested to see what your take is on it!
.
I just got done transferring it to a keg last night. I am bringing it down to 32 degrees right now. I think I am going to gelatin it and also let some of the hop particles settle out and jump it to another keg on Sunday and carb it.
It is great. I could have drank it by the pint out of the fermenter.
I also just sampled Kelsey McNairs Session IPA recipe that is here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/stone-ballast-point-kelsey-mcnair-collaboration-201080/
Brewed it 12 days ago. Sampled tonight - 1.011 gravity. It was really really good already. Threw the dry hops in tonight and will cold crash and transfer to keg in a few days.
Both recipes seem like they will be outstanding. I will know for sure in a week or two.
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
I thought they both turned out really well. I had a couple of my "regular" tasters that really liked them as well. I think some others liked them even more than I did. I am not a huge fan of the dry/west coast style IPA..... These beers were definitely more toward that style of IPA for sure. I like the fruitier/juicy east coast kind of IPA - vermont IPA's, etc. I liked the session IPA more than the full IPA..... but, I tend to like a 1.05ish beer over a 1.07 beer most of the time. I highly recommend trying either or both.... There were bot really good..... and they are both really gone. Neither lasted a long time.
LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
They are both really gone cracked me up! Thanks for the insight.
Braufessor, can you recommend a water profile to try with the Double Sunshine recipe? I have been following your Northeast IPA thread and have learned a lot. Thanks.
