Anyone ever do in-line pasteurization?

[ShadyHoller]

Hi everyone. I have done the stovetop pasteurization thing with pretty good results, but it's pretty tedious to be lifting all of those bottles in and out of the steaming pot, along with the waiting. This is a real bottleneck in my bottling line.

I am intrigued by doing in-line pasteurization, where you heat the finished cider in a heat-exchanging coil, run it into a sanitized bottle, and quickly drop a sanitized cap on it. It would look like this (but without the mohawk and jumpsuit)

I understand the risk - if even one microbe in the bottle or on the cap survives the soaking in star-san, or if some air-borne yeastie settles on the bottle before you get the cap crimped, then you've got spoilage, bottle-bombs, etc.

So, with that risk in mind: does anyone out there actually do this sort of thing? Any practical experience? Why does this approach appear to work in the oompa-loompa land of that video (or Austria, where that pasteurizer/pressure-cooker comes from) but doesn't seem to be done here very much in North America?

I figure there's got to be a reason why it isn't commonly done here. Cheers.

 

[LeBreton]

Probably because most cider in the US is sparkling. Not the case in Germany (and I assume Austria too).

 

[ShadyHoller]

Right, of course.

What if someone did in-line pasteurizatoin, and then ran the hot cider into a sanitized keg. At that point, it could be force-carbed, and then bottled sparkling from the keg with a counter-pressure filler (through sanitized hoses, into sanitized bottles and caps, of course.)

Would the cider be exposed to too many different opportunities for infection during the all of the steps that occur post-pasteurization? Or could you keep it microbially barren between pasteurization-carbing-bottling?

Thanks for humoring me as I explore this pipe-dream. We need to invent a microbial death-ray that would allow you to sterilize things just by shining the beam at them.

 

[KeystoneHomebrew]

How would this be an advantage over bottle pasteurization, like how it is done now? Curious about this, but a little confused.

Even homebrewers can bottle pasteurize relatively easily should they be so inclined.

 

[ShadyHoller]

How would this be an advantage over bottle pasteurization, like how it is done now?

I was thinking this could be an advantage because it would allow you to pasteurize in bulk. Instead of hand-loading all of those bottles in and out of the pasteurizer, you could run the entire batch through a heated line.

Here's another scenario where in-line pasteurization could be advantageous: let's say you've got a cider that has fermented dry but still has live yeast in it. Let's say you want to back-sweeten it a touch and then put it in a keg. Let's also assume you want to avoid sorbates, just because you don't like the way they taste.

So, if you did all of that without pasteurizing, the yeast would likely wake back up and start fermenting the sugar you used for back-sweetening. You'd get a frothy yeasty fermentation going in your keg, and it would likely open your pressure-relief valve. But if you back-sweetened and then ran it through a pasteurizing coil, directly into a sanitized keg, you could have a sweetened product that wasn't going to start re-fermenting.

However, my primary purpose in asking this question was less about the kegging scenario and was more of an effort to find an alternative to moving hundreds of bottles in and out of a pasteurizing bath. That's tedious, hot, sweaty work that always involves a slight risk of exploding bottles.

 

[squegeeboo]

I was thinking this could be an advantage because it would allow you to pasteurize in bulk. Instead of hand-loading all of those bottles in and out of the pasteurizer, you could run the entire batch through a heated line.

Here's another scenario where in-line pasteurization could be advantageous: let's say you've got a cider that has fermented dry but still has live yeast in it. Let's say you want to back-sweeten it a touch and then put it in a keg. Let's also assume you want to avoid sorbates, just because you don't like the way they taste.

So, if you did all of that without pasteurizing, the yeast would likely wake back up and start fermenting the sugar you used for back-sweetening. You'd get a frothy yeasty fermentation going in your keg, and it would likely open your pressure-relief valve. But if you back-sweetened and then ran it through a pasteurizing coil, directly into a sanitized keg, you could have a sweetened product that wasn't going to start re-fermenting.

However, my primary purpose in asking this question was less about the kegging scenario and was more of an effort to find an alternative to moving hundreds of bottles in and out of a pasteurizing bath. That's tedious, hot, sweaty work that always involves a slight risk of exploding bottles.

I would think you could just use campden tablets instead of heat pasteurization, if you don't want sparkling, or if you're going to force carbonate a keg. This seems like an over complicated solution.

 

[Redking]

If you want to pasteurize in bottles, which many of us are doing since we don't have a keg setup, you can't use this method and only the stove-top.

I have created my own little system for pasteurizing where I do a big batch in a cooler with a spigot which is much safer and less cumbersome than the stove-top method. Check out my thread on page 1 where I explain it if anyone is interested in checking it out: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/quck-simple-cider-nottingham-yeast-437568/

 

[LandoAllen]

The microbial deathray you speak of is already invented... It's called UV pasteurization or there is Gamma Ray pasteurization. Hey look at me I did learn something useful in my microbiology and biochemistry classes!

 

[ShadyHoller]

I'm kinda answering my own question here, but I figured if anyone has read this far in this thread, they might be interested in the following link, which discusses the pros and cons of this approach in great detail:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cider-workshop/lZrcxhn9MVA

The short answer: it's very hard to do aseptic bottling, so most people (both hobbyists and pros) pasteurize the whole package, post-bottling. On the other hand, the cider going into kegs often isn't pasteurized because there's an assumption the kegs can be kept cold enough to prevent re-fermentation throughout their distribution-to-consumption lifecycle, whereas no one assumes bottles will be kept cold. Finally, it looks like a lot of producers utilize sorbate when kegging unpasteurized cider.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

The microbial deathray you speak of is already invented... It's called UV pasteurization or there is Gamma Ray pasteurization. Hey look at me I did learn something useful in my microbiology and biochemistry classes!

To add to this, I saw a portable uv water system (designed for camping) that could be adapted to suit your needs. It was being sold at BJ's wholesale club for arlund 30-40 $ I believe.

 

[TexasWine]

I feel it is my civic duty to direct you to the dishwasher pasteurization method. Same principal as the stove top, but using your dishwasher's sanitation cycle. Lots of folks use it (I haven't) and are very happy. Dramatically cuts down on the manual labor.

 

[MarkKF]

I feel it is my civic duty to direct you to the dishwasher pasteurization method. Same principal as the stove top, but using your dishwasher's sanitation cycle. Lots of folks use it (I haven't) and are very happy. Dramatically cuts down on the manual labor.

after just one bottle explosion I know I don't want a broken bottle in my new dishwasher

 

[zazbnf]

I hate pasteurizing in bottles as well. I just set the whole 5 gallon keg of cider in my HLT, heat to 160 and maintain until the liquid in the keg equalizes at 160.

 

[LandoAllen]

I hate pasteurizing in bottles as well. I just set the whole 5 gallon keg of cider in my HLT, heat to 160 and maintain until the liquid in the keg equalizes at 160.

What do you use as the hlt that allows the keg to fit inside it and maintain heat? Can you show us a picture?

 

[Newsman]

Right, of course.

What if someone did in-line pasteurizatoin, and then ran the hot cider into a sanitized keg. At that point, it could be force-carbed, and then bottled sparkling from the keg with a counter-pressure filler (through sanitized hoses, into sanitized bottles and caps, of course.)

Would the cider be exposed to too many different opportunities for infection during the all of the steps that occur post-pasteurization? Or could you keep it microbially barren between pasteurization-carbing-bottling?

Thanks for humoring me as I explore this pipe-dream. We need to invent a microbial death-ray that would allow you to sterilize things just by shining the beam at them.

Why pasteurize? Why not just use Potassium Sorbate and KMeta to kill the yeasties?

 

[Redking]

Why pasteurize? Why not just use Potassium Sorbate and KMeta to kill the yeasties?

Killing yeast before bottling = no carbonation.

 

[Newsman]

Killing yeast before bottling = no carbonation.

Yes, but the subject of kegging and force-carbing had been mentioned as well, which is why I suggested KMeta and Potassium Sorbate. Obviously if you intend to naturally carbonate in the bottle, you don't want to kill the yeasties, but if you're going to keg and force-carb, then you don't need the yeasties.