Anybody experience loss of efficiency with flaked grains?

[morbster]

I've been trying to hone in my efficiency numbers lately and was sad to see that I severely missed my gravity targets on my most recent session. My suspicion is that this was due to the large amount of flaked grains for the recipe, which I did not crush.

Grain Bill
5# Pale Malt
3# Flaked Maize
1# Flaked Barley
1# Carapils

Target pre-boil gravity: 1.039
Actual: 1.035

Target OG: 1.051
Actual: 1.046

Have any of you BIAB-ers experienced a similar loss of efficiency when you add flaked grains to your recipe? I may consider running them through my mill next time.

 

[Weezy]

Do you stir much?

I mill mine.

 

[casualbrewer]

I have found that the flaked grains need a bit more time to gelatinize which is why I add them to my mash tun when I am heating the strike water. When my grains go in the starches are more accessible. Often though I will just mash in all my grains with cold water then start heating the mash. Makes for a nice fermentable wort.

 

[Biscuits]

I always lose a few points of efficiency when I use a lot of flaked grains...it's just the nature of the beast.

 

[morbster]

Do you stir much?

I mill mine.

I stir for the first 5 minutes of my mash to make sure any dough balls break apart, then about 2 more times throughout the mash.

 

[Qhrumphf]

While I don't BIAB, if I mill flaked grains I see no efficiency loss, but unmilled there's a slight but not insignificant loss.

Another potential (and this case more likely) factor is diastatic power. With your grain bill it's literally only 50% enzymatic grain. Flaked grains have no DP, and carapils probably has none as well (and if it has any it's close to none). Depending on your base malt, you may not have enough to fully convert. If you're using pils or 6 row you're probably ok, 2 row probably barely enough to cut it, and any of the English or higher kilned pale ale malts may not be enough. Either way I'd probably extend your mash time as insurance. And in these cases I'll split the base malt between my normal base and some 6 row (I'd go 3-4 base and 1-2 6 row in this case).

 

[morbster]

Great point, I've never worried about diastatic power in the past because most of my grain bills have been >80% pale malt.

 

[jwelch1103]

I don't BIAB but have found I seem to get a better conversion when using flaked grains with a thinner mash. Not sure if that will help you BIABing but that's been my experience. You could just add a bit more pale malt next time to make up for the shortcoming. Milling them can't hurt it seems.

 

[Lefou]

It might seem odd or out of place, but don't tell anyone ....

During a couple of my wheat beer brew days, I've gone over the deep end and ground a portion of malted wheat grist to near flour. It was done for two reasons.
One, in a thinner mash, it increases fermentability and two, it increases potential mash efficiency because a larger percentage of grist is exposed to enzymes in the liquid portion of the mash.
If you BIAB, grinding down a portion of adjuncts and grist with more DP (diastatic power) can bump your efficiency numbers a bit higher without risking a stuck mash.

 

[morbster]

I was actually thinking about milling a portion of the flaked grains, but decided against it in the last minute. Thanks for your input.