And Yet ANOTHER Yeast Starter Question.

[sremed60]

I've never done a yeast starter but am planning to do one with this next batch.

I've read through a bunch of threads and comments trying to piece together enough information that seems to be trustworthy enough so I can hopefully avoid the trial and error route and possibly wasting time and money.

In my search to find the standard, tried and true, DME/water ratio I've seen: 100g DME to 1L water, 1/2 cup DME to 2 cups water, 1lb of DME to 1qt of water, ounces of DME to gallons of water, tablespoons of DME to shot glasses of water, handfuls of DME to a boot ful of water, and my personal favorite, 1g DME to 10ml water post boil. There were no instructions on how to measure these things "post boil." I would have liked to have read those.

So far the only given I've been able to come up with is that the wort ends up with a gravity of between 1.030 and 1.040. If that number is the constant then it seems like someone should have jotted down the ratio of DME to water it takes to arrive at that non-variable number.

I'm just a noob at all this "brew" stuff, but IMHO I would think that a measurement of weight, (i.e. grams, pounds or ounces) might be more accurate than a measurement of volume, (i.e. cups, tablespoons or fluid ounces), for the DME. After all, a cup of rolled oats weighs about 43g while a cup of flour weighs 68g and a cup of sugar weighs roughly 100g. A ton of feathers weighs the same as a ton of bricks, (that's the extent of my scientific knowledge).

Either way, a 1/2 cup of DME to 2 cups of water is not the same as 100g of DME to 1L of water. If you made two starters using these two formulas it's hard to imagine that both of them would end up in the 1.030-1.040 range.

So my question then is: does anyone know what weight of DME, (not volume) and what volume of water boiled for, say, 15 minutes, consistently produces wort with a gravity of 1.030-1.040?

 

[CA_Mouse]

I use 4oz of Light DME by weight in .37 gallons of filtered water. Boiled for 15 minutes and cooled gives me 1 liter of wort with a gravity of 1.039. I have used this since I started making starters and it has worked perfectly for my use. If you brew fairly often (every 2 weeks or so). I would do a 1.5 liter starter and decant 500ml into a sterile ball jar for the next brew day. Then use the slurry from that to make your next starter. Again, make a 1.5 liter if you want. This will save you money over having to purchase yeast for several batches.

 

[tdbc2011]

I use 100 grams of DME per liter. I only boil for 5-10 minutes with most of that time with a lid on the pot. I start with just over the needed amount of water to end with the desired amount to make a two liter, three liter or four liter starter.

 

[tdbc2011]

I would do a 1.5 liter starter and decant 500ml into a sterile ball jar for the next brew day. Then use the slurry from that to make your next starter. Again, make a 1.5 liter if you want. This will save you money over having to purchase yeast for several batches.

I do this every time!!

 

[whoaru99]

So my question then is: does anyone know what weight of DME, (not volume) and what volume of water boiled for, say, 15 minutes, consistently produces wort with a gravity of 1.030-1.040?

I use the Easy button and let a calculator like this one tell me...

Starter Calculator

 

[TheMadKing]

100g per liter is the standard amount. This is also the same as 1g / 10mL. Heat your water, add the DME when warm, bring it to a boil, chill, pitch, stir plate for ~18hrs, cold crash for 36-48hrs, decant, warm to pitching temp and pitch. Viola!

 

[sremed60]

Okay thanks guys. Good info. It get's me in the ball park so I know I'm not completely screwing things up. I realize making beer isn't an exact science, but the perfectionist in me is constantly telling me that certain things should be a little more exact than they are. I know I'm in the ball park with the starter now so I suppose it's just a matter of taking good notes and experimenting from here.

This is not meant to spark any responses or step on anyone's toes - simply to point out a minor example of what I'm talking about:

I use 4oz of Light DME by weight in .37 gallons of filtered water. Boiled for 15 minutes and cooled gives me 1 liter of wort with a gravity of 1.039.

Based on the list of beers in the signature I have no doubt you've done a starter or two in your day, so it's probably a safe bet to assume your numbers are pretty accurate.

That said - 4oz DME to .37 gallons water comes out to 80g to 1L. And a 15 minute boil at that ratio gives you a gravity of 1.039.

I use 100 grams of DME per liter. I only boil for 5-10 minutes with most of that time with a lid on the pot.

I'm guessing the shorter boil time compensates for the 20% more DME?

100g per liter is the standard amount. This is also the same as 1g / 10mL. Heat your water, add the DME when warm, bring it to a boil, chill, pitch, stir plate for ~18hrs, cold crash for 36-48hrs, decant, warm to pitching temp and pitch. Viola!

Interesting process - This is the first time I heard someone mention cold crashing a starter. I might just give this a try on this batch.

Thanks again guys

Cheers

 

[arnobg]

Okay thanks guys. Good info. It get's me in the ball park so I know I'm not completely screwing things up. I realize making beer isn't an exact science, but the perfectionist in me is constantly telling me that certain things should be a little more exact than they are. I know I'm in the ball park with the starter now so I suppose it's just a matter of taking good notes and experimenting from here.

This is not meant to spark any responses or step on anyone's toes - simply to point out a minor example of what I'm talking about:


Based on the list of beers in the signature I have no doubt you've done a starter or two in your day, so it's probably a safe bet to assume your numbers are pretty accurate.

That said - 4oz DME to .37 gallons water comes out to 80g to 1L. And a 15 minute boil at that ratio gives you a gravity of 1.039.



I'm guessing the shorter boil time compensates for the 20% more DME?



Interesting process - This is the first time I heard someone mention cold crashing a starter. I might just give this a try on this batch.

Thanks again guys

Cheers

That is actually probably the more common practice. Have you ever tasted your starter wort? You will likely decant every time after if you did. Cold crashing helps you accomplish that.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Did one tonight 150 grams of DME but used 8 cups of filtered water to account for boil off. Boiled for approx 15 minutes landed on 1500 mLs. Poured my yeast cake from prior starter landed at 1800 mLs. Its on the stir plate as we speak.

 

[TheMadKing]

Interesting process - This is the first time I heard someone mention cold crashing a starter. I might just give this a try on this batch.

Thanks again guys

Cheers

Cold crashing a starter is fairly essential, unless you plan on pitching the entire volume of your starter into the beer. The problem with doing that, is that you're dumping 1.5-2L of nasty tasting oxidized starter beer into your finished product, and it can introduce off flavors. Cold crashing forces the yeast to flocculate so that you can pour off the wort and leave the yeast behind.

You also only really need to boil for 1-2 minutes. There's no real reason to boil longer. The reason for boiling is just sanitation and dissolving the DME. So unless you have cryptosporidium spores in your water (unlikely), everything will be dead very quickly.

I would recommend the Mr. Malty website. Jamil (Mr. Malty) is THE homebrewing yeast expert. Kai Troester (brukaiser) also has highly regarded information on his website regarding every aspect of brewing. Marshall (Brulosopher) also has great info and experimental data.

@GavinC also has a great yeast starter tutorial on this forum, and if you go to the blog in my signature, there's a writeup of my yeast starter process.

 

[Gavin C]

So my question then is: does anyone know what weight of DME, (not volume) and what volume of water boiled for, say, 15 minutes, consistently produces wort with a gravity of 1.030-1.040?

Mass of DME x in grams

Add this to vessel and add water targeting 10x the volume in ml. This will result in a wort with SG of ~1.040. Take mass x and Volume 10x and it will result in a SG of ~1.037. Both fine but I favor the former approach owing to its simplicity and ease of measurement.

This is the sweet spot for stater gravity.

Here is a thread covering this topic in more detail.

 

[sremed60]

Cold crashing a starter is fairly essential, unless you plan on pitching the entire volume of your starter into the beer...

You also only really need to boil for 1-2 minutes...

I would recommend the Mr. Malty website... Jamil (Mr. Malty) is THE homebrewing yeast expert. Kai Troester (brukaiser) also has highly regarded information on his website regarding every aspect of brewing. Marshall (Brulosopher) also has great info and experimental data.

Thanks again everyone. I got a lot of valuable and much appreciated info. There's definitely a little more to it than I initially thought - but learning is half the fun.