always oxidation first pour keezer...is it the lines?

[Unicorn_Platypus]

for some reason the first pour out of my keezer is always flat and heavily oxidized (especially if I let it sit for a few days between pours)

After I clear out the lines the fresh beer usually tastes fine. However, I'm concerned that dissolved oxygen sitting in the line is also slowly making its way into the keg. I go to great lenghts to avoid O2 pickup when transfering (purge kegs and do closed transfers).

The beer line I'm currently using is below

https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultra-barrier-antimicrobial-pvc-free-tubing-316-foot.html

I have intertap flow control faucets. My full keezer setup can be seen in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...g-for-10-years-behold-my-first-keezer.653230/

No liquid is leaking from the lines or the taps, so I feel like it must either be the lines or O2 that is sneaking in the lines when I seal the faucets.

Do you guys think its the lines or the faucets? Which lines do folks recommend that are impervious to O2?

Thanks!

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Bumpitty bizump

 

[day_trippr]

Could be the lines - they make a lot of noise about a silver coating but even assuming when new it could block atmospheric ingress that coating will get eaten up - and I can't find anything about that line that clearly shows it employs an O2 barrier layer.

Unlike Bev Seal Ultra 235, which is all about its PET liner. There's no ambiguity there and there are numbers to back up its effectivity...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

Bev-Seal Ultra 235 tubing has a PET liner inside, which is virtually impervious to O2. The walls are thin, like 1 mm or so.
For that line you should get the matching John Guest push fittings with it as it is very difficult to get it over barbs. They require MFL QDs, and shanks that have no permanently (welded) barb on the back.

It's ultra slick and a hair wider than 3/16" ID. I use 18' lines per tap to create enough resistance to foaming. It rolls up in 12" diameter coils.

 

[IslandLizard]

Could be the lines - they make a lot of noise about a silver coating but even assuming when new it could block atmospheric ingress that coating will get eaten up - and I can't find anything about that line that clearly shows it employs an O2 barrier layer.

Unlike Bev Seal Ultra 235, which is all about its PET liner. There's no ambiguity there and there are numbers to back up its effectivity...

Cheers!

I looked at those EJ Beverage lines, they look like silicone, quite flexible, semi transparent, and also very pricey! Silicone itself is not O2 tight without a barrier. That maybe what the OP experiences.

 

[day_trippr]

Pretty sure they're not silicone. I've been digging around the EJB site (again) and it's apparent they have some proprietary materials in their tubing lines. And in their beer lines they have an "ultra barrier" and an "ultra barrier silver" but only the former actually illustrates the permeability compared to PVC ("70% less"). If their lines had a significant silicone content they'd be hella worse than PVC...

Cheers!

 

[wardens355]

I always encounter off flavors in my beer when it sits in the plastic tubing for extended periods of time (generally more than 6-12 hours). When I first started brewing and stored kegs in chest freezers, I would use over 10-feet of 3/16" line to get a pour that I found acceptable. I switched to 1/8" Tygon tubing and was able to use 2-3 feet of line with good results.

I just got back into brewing recently and built myself two keezers, one with 4 taps and one with 6 taps. I now use about 2-feet of 1/8" tubing for all my beer lines and only have to dump a very small volume of beer when I get back to drinking after a couple days. Less cleaner is also needed to clean the lines. So you get a few advantages, less tubing/clutter, less volume of beer sitting in lines (1% of a pint in the 1/8" setup, 15% of a pint in a 3/16" setup, +/-), and less cleaner needed for periodic cleanings.

There is an upfront cost as you need to get a couple adapters for use with the 1/8" tubing, but considering the investment I have made into my beer brewing operation, it's peanuts, and the adapters are stainless steel/will last forever. For each faucet you spend about $3 on the adapters (+ shipping), then the cost of the 1/8" tubing. I use Tygon B-44-4x from USPlastic and am experimenting with Tygon 2475 to see if it reduces off flavors (probably little difference).

Adapter for faucet shank to 1/8" ($2 or so):
https://www.midwestbev.com/collecti...b-splicer-stainless-steel?variant=47663776076

1/8" barb for 1/4" nut (less than a $1):
https://www.midwestbev.com/products/barb-stem-stainless-steel?variant=47669844044

Also need a short length of 3/16" tubing between faucet shank and adapter.

My past post:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/strategy-to-shorten-serving-tubing.493400/

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Thanks for the tips guys! I'll try changing my lines in the future to see if that solves it

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Bev-Seal Ultra 235 tubing has a PET liner inside, which is virtually impervious to O2. The walls are thin, like 1 mm or so.
For that line you should get the matching John Guest push fittings with it as it is very difficult to get it over barbs. They require MFL QDs, and shanks that have no permanently (welded) barb on the back.

It's ultra slick and a hair wider than 3/16" ID. I use 18' lines per tap to create enough resistance to foaming. It rolls up in 12" diameter coils.

Do you think it's ok to use the Bev-Seal Ultra 235 on the gas side as well?

I've switched to this on the liquid side and have been having success.

On the gas side I'm using standard red hose and looking to switch to something that has a stronger barrier. Other folks are recommending the EVA barrier for both liquid and gas. But thinking I could just use the Bev-Seal since I've already got it.

Just not sure if the tubing is rated to use on the gas side.

 

[day_trippr]

You can certainly use Ultra 235 on the gas side. Seriously O2-adverse folks have done as much...

Cheers!