Alternate Mash Tun ideas?

[Stinkonamonkey]

SWMBO is a Biomedical Engineer by degree who did her graduate research in water contamination. So when I made the mistake of discussing my next brewing project with her (building a mash tun out of an igloo cooler) she raised concerns that putting 170 deg water in a plastic Igloo water cooler might not be a good idea because some kinds of plastic are known to leach toxic chemicals at elevated temperatures. She also cited a few studies she had read about the subject that pointed towards heating the plastic caused increased levels of leaching BPA. I did a search and found the following articles which are not conclusive.

US FDA/CDRH: FDA Public Health Notification: PVC Devices Containing the Plasticizer DEHP
Plastic (Not) Fantastic: Food Containers Leach a Potentially Harmful Chemical: Scientific American

Bottom line, SWMBO is not to be trifled with when it comes to health issues. She has been known to put her foot down.

Thus, I am looking for alternative methods for controlling mash temps. I did a search here and found a few people talking about using an oven set at 150 deg. This sounds good, but my oven only goes down to 170, so holding 150 deg for 60 min at a time in a SS pot will probably not work.

Has anybody used a ranco temp controller to regulate temp in a oven? I could probably scrounge up an old oven and set it up in the garage next to the fermentation chiller.

Alternatively, are any of the popular water coolers advertised for use with hot water?

Any idea's appreciated.

 

[k1v1116]

I havent tried it but I dont see any reason it would work, at least with an old oven, newer ones with electronics cant be switched on and off like it would have to be by the ranco. another possibility is using a larger water tight container with an immersion heating element and the mashtun inside and making a kind of thermostat controlled double boiler, in theory it would give you perfect temp control and the beauty is the second large container of the double boiler doesnt need to be food safe as long as it can handle the temps and is water tight.

 

[Blender]

If you are going to try a full all grain batch I don't believe an oven is going to work. You can do a direct fired mash in a stainless steel tun.

 

[kladue]

I might be wrong but most of the coolers are built from polyethylene not a poly carbonate or pvc material. With 1" of foam insulation a SS mashtun does not lose enough heat to cause problems as most of the conversion happens in the first 20 minutes of a single step mash, temperatures dropping later in the cycle do not seem to cause any problems with efficiency.

 

[stevehaun]

I use a food grade high density polyethylene (HDPE) barrel for my mash tun. They come in 15 gallon, 30 gallon and 55 gallon sizes. They are much thicker walled than a cooler which makes it much easier to install a bulkhead. E-bay or craigslist. There is no BPA in HDPE. The melting point of HDPE is 266 F and the temperature range for utilization is -180 F to 244 F.

 

[Orfy]

1000s of brewers are still alive and well after doing it.

 

[jkarp]

1000s of brewers are still alive and well after doing it.

But how many are growing bewbies?

 

[Yooper]

But how many are growing bewbies?

Aha! That's what happened to me! All along I thought it was just because I'm a girl............................

I think the only way to avoid a cooler MLT is to use a stainless steel MLT that you can put on a burner. Those work great, though- you could use a keggle and a false bottom and that would be fine. If you're handy, you could install your own weldless fitting for a bulk head fitting and a pick up tube. (That's what I wish I had, instead of a cooler MLT)

 

[Orfy]

The thing I love about my cooler MLT is set it up, dump in the grain and water and walk away for as long as you want. 20 minutes to 24hrs.

 

[Funkenjaeger]

Well you could just go all out and jump to a direct fired MLT, or even a RIMS or HERMS system with stainless kettles. Then not only would you avoid plastic, but you'd have a really awesome brewing rig as well. If you can sell the idea to your SWMBO by making a big deal out of the zero plastic aspect, more power to you

 

[Stinkonamonkey]

The thing I love about my cooler MLT is set it up, dump in the grain and water and walk away for as long as you want. 20 minutes to 24hrs.

Thats the simplicity I'm looking for. I did a mini-mash in my brew kettle and I had to mess with the burner all the time and the temps were all over the place.

I have a lead on a 5 gallon water cooler that might pass muster with SWMBO. I'll update the thread if it works out.

I'm only going to be doing 5 gallon batches for now, so a keggle MLT is way overkill I think. I could be wrong, as I've never done a AG before though. Are you guys using keggles for 5 gallon batches? I had also planned on splitting my wort between 2 20 quart kettles, but maybe I'll move up to a bigger boil kettle.

 

[Stinkonamonkey]

Well, I was trying to win an Ebay auction for a vintage 5 gallon Igloo cooler that had stainless steel lining, but I got sniped on it at the last min and lost the auction. So back to the drawing board.

So my options seem to be either use a cooler to mash in despite SWMBO's concerns or go spend a LOT more money on something.

 

[balto charlie]

I use to use a SS pot w/ grains. Raised temp on stove top, removed pot and put into a styrofoam box. I was easily able to maintain the temps. Now this was for PM so the pot only had 3 gallons. If you don't mind lifting 5 gallons(40lbs or more) this will work. Great for step mashing as well.

 

[balto charlie]

The thing I love about my cooler MLT is set it up, dump in the grain and water and walk away for as long as you want. 20 minutes to 24hrs.

for real...24 hrs!! How does this affect the beer?? It would change the brew day. I mash before work and finish up upon return. Orfy do you do this all the time??

 

[Orfy]

for real...24 hrs!! How does this affect the beer?? It would change the brew day. I mash before work and finish up upon return. Orfy do you do this all the time??

Nope. Never.

But you can.

If I need to do something whilst brewing, like go out or walk the dogs, go the pub etc. I do it in the mash.

Trick is mash high.....:rockin:

 

[MrNate]

I might be wrong but most of the coolers are built from polyethylene not a poly carbonate or pvc material.

The coolers I've used were all polypropylene liners, with an HDPE outer shell. I've never seen a PVC cooler, either.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Just get a keggle and add a FB. I much prefer my Keggles to a cooler. I feel it is more versatile and mine holds heat just fine, and just as well as many people report with a cooler. Just block it from the wind, and heat loss is very minimal.

Cheers

 

[Stinkonamonkey]

Just get a keggle and add a FB. I much prefer my Keggles to a cooler. I feel it is more versatile and mine holds heat just fine, and just as well as many people report with a cooler. Just block it from the wind, and heat loss is very minimal.

Cheers

FB = Fat broad? Filthy Bandaid? Fabulous Berett?

I ended up winning this cooler, which has a metal interior lining.

IGLOO INDUSTRIAL GALVANIZED WATER COOLER W/CUP HOLDER - eBay (item 350101193366 end time Sep-29-08 18:18:45 PDT)

I'll report back after the first time I use it and see how it holds temp.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

FB = false bottom. They allow you to drain the sweet wort out of your mash tun while leaving the grain behind.

I am very surprised your SWMBO allows you to use a galvanized metal but is worried about plastic...... ???

Galvanic protection works by bonding a sacrificial metal to the structural metal. The sacrificial metal literally dissolves/oxidizes/reacts in order to preserve the structural metal. I would almost guarantee that the inside of that cooler is low grade metal with a galvanic coating. I would not use that for a mash tun!

At least it wasn't too pricy. I would highly recommend going with one of the other suggestions here. Either a cooler or a stainless vessel.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news sorry

 

[MrNate]

I ended up winning this cooler, which has a metal interior lining.

Not that I'm all that concerned about it, but isn't galvanized steel more reactive in acidic solutions than PolyPropylene? PP doesn't leach anything.

Although I guess it's just zinc, which isn't going to do you any harm in the amount likely to be leached out, but it might give you off flavors. Though I've heard that the zinc in galvanized can sometimes contain traces of cadmium as well. But I have no substantiation for that whatsoever.


Edit: Whoops, [unpronounceable name] beat me to the punch!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Edit: Whoops, [unpronounceable name] beat me to the punch!

boo - er - dare - rye ... ka - bout - er

 

[MrNate]

boo - er - dare - rye ... ka - bout - er

Ahhhhh, thank you!

 

[Stinkonamonkey]

From what the seller said, it is enamel coated. I'll have to see what it is before I brew in it.

 

[EvilTOJ]

Not that I'm all that concerned about it, but isn't galvanized steel more reactive in acidic solutions than PolyPropylene? PP doesn't leach anything.

Although I guess it's just zinc, which isn't going to do you any harm in the amount likely to be leached out, but it might give you off flavors. Though I've heard that the zinc in galvanized can sometimes contain traces of cadmium as well. But I have no substantiation for that whatsoever.

Not only this, but once the galvinic protection is dissolved away exposing the mild steel, you have a nice huge rusty bucket to mash in.

I have made not one, but two mashtuns out of coolers, and I can't believe that your SWMBO thinks this is 'safer' than a plastic container designed to hold food.

 

[TeleTwanger]

I can't believe that your SWMBO thinks this is 'safer' than a plastic container designed to hold food.

+1 How long has your wife been homebrewing?

 

[MrNate]

Solution in search of a problem, says I.

Worrying about a PP-lined picnic cooler leaching chemicals into the mash is like worrying about CO2 poisoning. Guilty by association.

 

[Yunus]

What about just getting a large 10 gallon Igloo cooler and putting a smaller SS mash tun inside of it. Just add some water around the SS to increase or decrease your temperature as needed.

 

[Stinkonamonkey]

Well, I got the metal igloo cooler and it is coated inside with some kind of white coating. I'm not going to use it. I'm just going to build a keggle mashtun I think and put together a 2 tier gravity rig.

 

[AzironaZack]

I'm with your wife on this one. I called up Igloo customer service and the representative with whom I spoke told me that Igloo makes plastic coolers for cold liquids only and that putting warm / hot liquids in their plastic coolers will cause warping and possible leaching of chemicals. The representative had to ask around before she was able to give me this answer, but whether or not she knows what she was talking about is unknown. She told me that the only insulated containers they manufacture that are intended for hot liquids are their stainless steel insulated beverage containers.

As for the fact that thousands of brewers are alive and well after mashing in plastic… this argument doesn't hold much weight. Thousands are alive and well who drive their cars without wearing seat belts. I buckle up.

I mash in my boil kettle. It's a stainless steel 50 quart pot. After dough in I put the pot outside on top of some wood (to keep it off of the brick patio) and then wrap an old wool blanket around and over it. The blanket is nice and thick and the mash only drops 2-4 degrees in an hour.

When the mash is done, I pour it all into my keg-turned-lauter-tun; give the boil kettle (now done with mashing) a quick rinse and wipe, then lauter and sparge right into it for the boil.

 

[toad47]

I found this link at rubbermaid's site where they say their water coolers are "BPA Free":

http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/bpa-info.jhtml

So that's good news at least. I still wonder if there are other leached chemicals that could cause long term health problems.

 

[antitelephonica]

There is no safe plastic. Even the government doesn't lie about this. (see link below) It won't kill you, immediately... but will shorten your life and cause sterility in the short term. True, plastic is everywhere, but so was asbestos and lead paint. Stay the hell away from it. And for pete's sake don't let hot water sit in it for an hour, then drink it.

Most Plastic Products Release Estrogenic Chemicals: A Potential Health Problem That Can Be Solved

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/