The design I came up with allows you to take the element out every time withing a few seconds BUT, it does require a couple of spot welds as seen on other builds because it is welded to the outside of the box.
This looks very similar to a flanged water heater element. I haven't looked at one real closely but perhaps one could be used instead of getting a regular element welded?
I thought of it many times since I have dozens of flanged elements I could has "stole" from work. But, there is no way to attach them to the brew kettle unless you came through the bottom. If there was an element with a flange and the standard 1" threading we would be in much better shape.
Tighten the nut on the inside the kettle enough and the washer that is outside the o-ring will be compressed between the kettle wall and the element box. The o-ring does not come into play. There's no way you can't have a good ground/continuity between the kettle wall and the element box. It's 3 pieces if metal completely sandwiched together as tight as they can go.I had leaks and also used a meter to test the ground and in several instances the element was not grounding! This is NOT good. It does this because the O-ring doesn't "squish" enough to make contact with the kettle body, AND using the silicon that is required to prevent leakage in to the electrical box can cause a situation where no contact between the base of the element and the box. Keep in mind this is a rare condition but it can happen.
You need to tighten it way down. It needs to be 100% tight. When done correctly the element box will feel like it's welded on to the kettle. You cannot twist or turn it at all. (I tried as hard as I could, while heating water, wearing oven mitts).Yes, I built a Kal style element and it leaked unless tightened way down.
Kettle size (within reason) does not matter as far as o-ring compression is concerned. The o-ring and washer are a specific size matched for each other so that the o-ring compresses down until the two surfaces it is against (kettle wall & element box) come in contact with the washer.This would work MUCH better on bigger kettles because the o-ring does not need to compress as much.
I use the same method of mounting the elements as Kal and it works great for me. No leaks at all, no silicone or JB weld either. Just the nut, element, o-ring, and washer. Although I did take an extra measure on the grounding. But I did verify with my meter before adding the extra ground strap and the ground was solid.
rollinred said:Kettle wall/O-ring/sealing surface/electrical box
That equals total seal with NO chance of the liquid seeping behind the element
Old method
Kettle wall/O-ring/electrical box/sealing surface
This equals chance of liquid leaking directing in electrical box
Old method: Kettle wall/O-ring/electrical box/sealing surface
There is definitely still confusion here. Kal, with your method, the sealing surface (the element flange) is INSIDE the junction box. A leak past the o-ring will end up inside the box.
View attachment 45089
lschiavo, this statement is incorrect. Kal's photo of the box interior with the silicone makes it look like the element flange is the sealing surface, but it is not. The box cover is the sealing surface, the flange is behind it.
Is the element completely welded to that stainless steel plate, or just tack welded in those few spots?
No, that is not "straight shot". Trust me, I use it quite a bit and it works fine.
Your method would work great in a welded coupler. Speaking of water and tiny holes, what about a boilover with your arrangement? Wouldn't water leak in between the tack welds?
Kind of my question, it was stated that your mount is fully waterproof. However, if it is only tack welded (which is obviously not waterproof), you are relying on the silicone to seal the element (assumably on the inside of the mount). So what is the real difference from kal's method? Honestly, kal (and I) are also using silicone, only ours is for additional assurance from leaks. Whereas you are actually relying on the silicone for your seal...
Maybe I am missing something? As it is apparent, as well as admitted, that your silicone o-ring is only to prevent scratches on the kettle.
What!?
There is a LOT in what you wrote that was not stated by me anywhere.
This is not, nor ever was meant as waterproof. It is splash proof. What I have done is a proof of concept... nothing more. Is it usable yes. But I am still searching for the method I choose to use to make it water proof. Which could either be welding it all the way around and designing a new cover for the box or finding a different enclosure. The other thing to mention is that removing the element in the Kal setup versus this setup would disturb the silicone on the inside. Creating a potential fore leakage. The Silicone I used is in a paper thin gap that never gets disturbed and never has to be reapplied.
My method has nothing to do with scratches on the outside. I used the washer inside to allow me to tighten it further which also has the benefit of eliminating scratches on the inside.
Using lateral compressive force on the o-ring is not a good method, especially when the surface the o-ring being forced against is NOT the flange on the heating element. Direct compressive force is how an o-ring is designed to be used. The o-ring should mate with two surfaces, the kettle and the heating element flange, if you put anything else between them you have a potential for leaks. In the case of the Kal method, the leak would be directly in to the electrical box. Leaks in a method like the one I am using will go on the floor. I much prefer the floor than inside the electrical box.
Using lateral compressive force on the o-ring is not a good method, especially when the surface the o-ring being forced against is NOT the flange on the heating element. Direct compressive force is how an o-ring is designed to be used. The o-ring should mate with two surfaces, the kettle and the heating element flange, if you put anything else between them you have a potential for leaks. In the case of the Kal method, the leak would be directly in to the electrical box. Leaks in a method like the one I am using will go on the floor. I much prefer the floor than inside the electrical box.
I don't agree. Here is a good reference on o-rings by an o-ring manufacturer.
Some key points from page 5:
-The o-ring's circular cross section is also appealing because it is adaptable to axial, radial, or angular squeeze.
-o-rings seal in both directions
-the o-ring is flexible and absorbs metal tolerance stack-up
It is true that we are not using a water element as it was designed to be used. I think we all know that. It comes with a square profile gasket. We discard that and use the high temp silicone o-ring. We are using o-rings as they were designed to be used. It doesn't matter which two surfaces are mated, as long the o-ring is sufficiently compressed to create a seal.
rsklhm10 said:I do believe on more than one occasion you have set forth that your mount is a better concept than kal's and "cannot" leak. If it cannot leak, that would lead almost everyone to believe your mount is "waterproof." However, now you indicate it is splash proof, but better because you have tack welded the element and proceeded to use silicone
This whole discussion was not started about whether or not a design leaks. We all want them not to. It is about IF it leaks and then not having a path to leak into the electrical box.
Maybe a picture will help.
Maybe a picture will help.
Just look at the tiny contact patch between the 0-ring and the element base. If there were no electrical box cover there, you would double or more than double the surface area contact between the O-ring and the element base. I know, this is kind of slightly off topic, but I just realized that...
Drill a weep hole if you insist on using this method.
rollin,
I really agree with you here.
I actually feel pretty good about NOT having a weep hole in my setup due to the huge amount of surface area contact between my O-ring and element base.
But I do hope you lubricate the o-ring before tightening.
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