Allergy-Sensitive Cider--Advice?

[MIHarwood]

Hey everyone,

I have a friend with severe allergies to all grains, including those without gluten in them. Even certain wines can cause a reaction because of the way the grapes are processed. I've been enlisted to make something alcoholic that she can drink without being deathly ill. I settled on a cider and I've done some research on yeast options but I am coming up pretty empty because everything has sorbitan monostearate in it. I heard Red Star Active Dry Bakers yeast would be safe, but would also taste like bread dough, so I'm thinking wild yeast might be my only option. Of course, I've never done anything like this before. So here's my plan so far--I'm hoping I can get some advice and critiques.

Allergy Cider--3 gal batch

3 gallons (roughly) locally pressed cider, no additives.
1 lb local 100% pure local honey, no additives.

Then I'll try to wrangle some wild yeasts with some of the cider in a mason jar with cheese cloth over it, a kind of starter or something. After a few days, I'll pitch that to the larger volume of cider and honey and hope it'll get going.

My question is really the process of the whole thing. What precautions should I take so this doesn't turn into vinegar? When to kill the yeast, when to rack into secondary, when I should bottle?

Any advice is welcome. I'm kind of nervous about the whole thing because if I mess up I would probably kill her.

Thanks!

 

[Randzor]

Well I'd be careful of wild yeasts. If she gets deathly ill is it worth risking that, as you don't know what goes into them? if it is something that the yeast companies add while packaging and such, why not shoot them a letter or email to their pr department? Alot of companies will see if they can come up with a solution, even if its only for the good pr.

 

[MIHarwood]

Oh that's a really good point. I know she'll sometimes have reactions when they're just harvesting corn or something near her house. Do you think the cider would start fermenting from the yeast that's already in it? So I wouldn't have to leave it out in the open?

 

[ivegot2legs]

Pasteurized or unpasteurized cider will start fermenting in a sealed environment. I've had jugs in my fridge that start on their own all the time.

I've also never had an issue with vinegar or bad flavours based on wild fermentation. Some folks think the wild, lightly-fermented stuff in the fridge is gross, but I don't know why, and I always liked it.

 

[ivegot2legs]

I guess to answer more questions, don't worry about vinegar, or killing yeast. Secondary might be useful, but eliminate all head space. Age for awhile, until it's clear. Bottle with priming sugar.

 

[Randzor]

Well MY point was just what is she allergic to? Is it something in the yeast or a yeast biproduct? If its a yeast biproduct I doubt that wild yeast will fix that. If its something the businesses ass to the yeasts, then your good with the wild yeasts, otherwise I'm not sure i'd risk it...

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Well MY point was just what is she allergic to? Is it something in the yeast or a yeast biproduct? If its a yeast biproduct I doubt that wild yeast will fix that. If its something the businesses ass to the yeasts, then your good with the wild yeasts, otherwise I'm not sure i'd risk it...

This is a g ood point. Unless and until you nail down what the specific allergy is, I would not risk it. Like you said, you could be brewing up a big batch of poison! My daughter has a peanut allergy and allergies are constantly on my mind due to this fact. Why take the chance until you know the specific allergy? Just my 2 cents. Wish I had better news for you.

:-(

 

[MIHarwood]

She's allergic to all grains, milk, and some nightshades. Corn is one of her worst allergies and in practically everything. The reason most yeasts won't work is because of the emulsifiers the industry puts in them. I believe sorbitan monostearate is a corn derivative. I bought some extra cider and made a little "starter" out of that, but I haven't touched the bulk of it in case I should keep it away from the air to ferment that way. The mason jar is inside on the counter (being that it's like 23 degrees outside) so I'm not sure how much of a risk there is of airborne allergens. I just brewed a batch of beer yesterday, would there be grain dust or anything that I should worry about? Am I thinking too far into this?

I really appreciate all the input.

 

[butterpants]

She's allergic to all grains, milk, and some nightshades. Corn is one of her worst allergies and in practically everything. The reason most yeasts won't work is because of the emulsifiers the industry puts in them. I believe sorbitan monostearate is a corn derivative. I bought some extra cider and made a little "starter" out of that, but I haven't touched the bulk of it in case I should keep it away from the air to ferment that way. The mason jar is inside on the counter (being that it's like 23 degrees outside) so I'm not sure how much of a risk there is of airborne allergens. I just brewed a batch of beer yesterday, would there be grain dust or anything that I should worry about? Am I thinking too far into this?

I really appreciate all the input.

I'd be scared to leave the house, that's a lot of allergies man!

 

[ivegot2legs]

Do you mill your own grain? Dough in at the same area of the jar? It does create dust. I don't know if it's a big enough deal for minimal dust to settle around another food product.

 

[MIHarwood]

Do you mill your own grain? Dough in at the same area of the jar? It does create dust. I don't know if it's a big enough deal for minimal dust to settle around another food product.

I use the mill at the store but I did mash it in the same room. My house is pretty drafty though so it might settle over 36 hours.

 

[5WTFLYBUM]

I deal with many allergies some are deadly to me. I would be too scared to try and make something that could potentially kill someone I know and love.

I would have to be very sure that I was well away from what she is allergic to. However since this is between you and her, good luck. Seriously, be safe and what ever you do I wish you both the best.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

She's allergic to all grains, milk, and some nightshades. Corn is one of her worst allergies and in practically everything. The reason most yeasts won't work is because of the emulsifiers the industry puts in them. I believe sorbitan monostearate is a corn derivative. I bought some extra cider and made a little "starter" out of that, but I haven't touched the bulk of it in case I should keep it away from the air to ferment that way. The mason jar is inside on the counter (being that it's like 23 degrees outside) so I'm not sure how much of a risk there is of airborne allergens. I just brewed a batch of beer yesterday, would there be grain dust or anything that I should worry about? Am I thinking too far into this?

I really appreciate all the input.

You could make this work wit h a starter possibly. Yeast grown that way won't have any of the industry added stuff...I think.

As to the grain dust, if your starter is covers by a cloth or tin foil (as it should be) then it should be fine.

 

[KevinM]

Wine, cider and mead should be fine (provided you don't use any wheatpaste sealed barrels). As for the yeast... Yeah, thats difficult. You're looking at chancing a wild yeast, or trying to culture a strain or a process of growing and straining. On the other hand, she may want to find out what her allergen limit is.

Harvested corn would throw a lot up in the air, but a packet of yeast among 5 gallons of liquid is pretty minimal.

Some gluten free people can use yeast grown on barley malt liquid and create a starter, wash the starter and repeat again, then use it in a 5 gallon batch. (I know I can.)

 

[KevinM]

And yes make sure all utensils are cleaned multiple times. Usually best to keep all gluten free/allergen equipment away, because the grain dust could be an issue.

 

[MIHarwood]

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

I ran the plan by her father and he said it should be fine. I might have been a little too paranoid by the sounds of it. Apparently she can eat most anything from the farmer's market (besides the obvious allergens--grain, milk, nightshades) as long as it's not sprayed and there are no additives. So the cider I bought will be safe, as well as the honey.

I'm too nervous to use the starter I exposed to the air shortly after brewing or to chance traces of corn in a store-bought yeast, so I'm just going to seal the rest of the cider with a pound of local honey and use the yeast that's already in it. I bought a new carboy, stopper, and airlock for the project too so no worries there.

Keep your fingers crossed!

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Hope it turns out amazing. You're a good doobie for giving it so much careful consideration.