All IBU from low temperature whirlpool additions

[Ruckusz28]

Has anybody brewed an IPA where most IBU comes from a low temperature whirlpool addition? For example, 10ibu bittering charge at 20 minutes followed by 60ibu of an aroma hop held at 150*F for 30 minutes in a whirlpool addition.

If so, what were your findings? I'm assuming that this would extract lots of flavor and minimum bitterness.

 

[bmbigda]

there's a lot of discussion these days on this topic as whirpool hopping becomes more and more popular in home and commercial brewing. I myself am interested in this too so consider me subscribed.

Here is a recent thread that sparked a bit of debate on this topic: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568961

I remember way back in 2010 doing a clone brew of Hop Rod Rye from Bear Republic, which called for a flameout hop addition. At the time the community (and Beersmith) believed that no bitterness was achieved post boil. So I proceeded under that assumption and matched the printed IBUs during the boil. The resulting beer was way more bitter than the commercial example, and I began subscribing to the belief that of course you were getting some bitterness in the temp range close to boiling. It's not like it just drops off at 211 degrees.

Fast forward to last month and I did a clone of Maine Beer Peeper which also called for whirpool hops. Nowadays beersmith does attempt to predict post boil IBUs and I went with it. Long story short I can safely say I got bitterness from the hops during the whirpool. Otherwise I would have a very sweet beer. (Hops were added immediately at flameout and held without chilling for 30 min. The beer naturally fell to 180 during this time)

That all being said - my position nowadays is that while I'm sure there's some kind of non-linear IBU contribution post boil as temp drops, it's probably not predictable enough to base a recipe off of it (yet). So I will likely get all IBU during boil and wait until sub 150 to hold for whirpool hops.

I doubt you can get any IBU let alone 60 from a 150F addition. It also would be very hard to hold temp at 150 off heat.

 

[Mexibilly]

Version 4 of my DIPA, bittered with 1.5oz Colombus at 60 with additions at 20 (supposed to be 15), 10, 5, 0 and WP at 165 is overly bitter pre carbonation. Definitely drinkable, but far more bitter than I was planning.
Version 5 is getting 1oz Colombus to bitter at 20 and the rest Apollo, Cascade and summit at flameout, 170 and dry hop.

 

[cilestiok]

Has anybody brewed an IPA where most IBU comes from a low temperature whirlpool addition? For example, 10ibu bittering charge at 20 minutes followed by 60ibu of an aroma hop held at 150*F for 30 minutes in a whirlpool addition.



If so, what were your findings? I'm assuming that this would extract lots of flavor and minimum bitterness.

My hop forward lagers, wheat beers, session IPAs and such typically ONLY have flameout and whirlpool additions.

IBUs are not something I calculate, nor would I be able to accurately do so. If they matter to you, you may be able to set up some experiments to help you calculate approximate IBUs.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Here is a recent thread that sparked a bit of debate on this topic: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568961

Excellent, I will check the thread. I've done some reading and came across a thesis paper that states you'll get about 5% utilization holding your hopstand / whirlpool at 150*F. That's where I based my recipe at.

170 deg F ~ 15%
160 deg F ~ 9%
150 deg F ~ 5%
140 deg F ~ 3%

I'm aiming for a 2 gallon small batch so I can keep it stovetop and have easier control of the heat until I get the process nailed down.

IBUs are not something I calculate, nor would I be able to accurately do so. If they matter to you, you may be able to set up some experiments to help you calculate approximate IBUs.

The IBU doesn't essentially matter to me, however, I don't want to make a batch that's so overly bitter as to where it'll turn into a drain pour. I'm hoping to achieve that "mango juice" experience that I've experienced on several pale ales such as DC Brau Under the wings of Armageddon, Stone Enjoy By, Treehouse, etc.

Could you describe the flavor that the flameout / whirlpool additions contributed to the batch as opposed to a more standard hop schedule (60, 15, 5, 0)?

 

[agrazela]

... I've done some reading and came across a thesis paper that states you'll get about 5% utilization holding your hopstand / whirlpool at 150*F. That's where I based my recipe at.

170 deg F ~ 15%
160 deg F ~ 9%
150 deg F ~ 5%
140 deg F ~ 3%


...

Link?

 

[Ruckusz28]

Link?

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/22805/MalowickiMarkG2005.pdf?sequence=1

 

[ncbrewer]

This BYO article has lots of good info: http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands

 

[Ruckusz28]

Another good one. http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/hop-stand-ibu-estimate.139887/

Does anybody have any experience using this technique? If so, what were your findings in terms of flavor and bitterness?

 

[cilestiok]

My experience has been that traditional IBU calculations are a matter of perception. I am far more perceptive of bitterness than most. For example what would be a moderately bitter IPA for most (60ish IBUs) is pushing the extremity of bitterness for me whereas the lady can drink 100 IBU DIPAs all night with no problem. With adding the high volume of hops I want for flavor as a 10 or 15 min addition, the beer would be far too bitter for my threshold. Hop stands correct this for me.

Now this is not true for everyone. I don't believe in the traditional IBU calculation because the stigma of it makes for tons of commercial beers I can't palate but others rave over. Hop standing boatloads of hops with minimal boil additions allows me to have the same juicy, hoppy beers without the bitterness I'm sensitive to. I haven't experimented to compare bitterness over a scale because most (hoppy) beers over 45 IBUs are too bitter for me. Maybe someday I'll brave up. Haha.

 

[bmbigda]

My experience has been that traditional IBU calculations are a matter of perception.

amen.