All grain vs. Extract for beginner?

[Luv2crash]

I am brand new at this and am in the process of trying to figure out how to start brewing from an equipment standpoint. I see there is a lot of different beginner beer brewing kits for extract brewing out there.

Can i use these to go to all grain eventually, or does all grain require completely different stuff?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated from any of you who have tread the same water in the beginning. Like stated i'm just in the research process of gathering info and reading "How To Brew".

 

[Daver77]

I just started myself in December, I can't offer you much because I'm still learning but I can offer you this. Start off simple, get a 24qt pot a fermenter and a bottling bucket. Every shop offers a great kit containing pretty much everything you need except the pot for a hundred and 110- 130 dollars. Once you get your feet wet you'll begin to know what's what. With extract brewing you can steep specialty grains to give it more complexity and get started in learning about different kind of caramel malts or chocolate malts and such. Learn about yeast like I'm doing now and then once you feel comfortable you can get into partial mash recipes or just go on to full mash. I plan to go full mash one day but I gotta tell you, I'm having a lot of fun with extract and besides it's damn good beer. Good luck I hope others on the site can offer more insight.

In a couple of months I might go partial well see.

 

[flabyboy]

All grain requires more stuff, but you will use a lot of the same equipment as you would with extract. The extra stuff that is typical for all grain is a lauter tun, propane burner, large kettle, and wort chiller. Those are things you don't have to have for extract brewing, but are pretty important with all grain

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Start on extract to get your process down. If you think you may want to go all grain further down the road, the only thing I would recommend buying NOW is a larger sized brew pot than what the typical kits come with.

Ignore the guy above. Get yourself an 8 - 10 gallon brew kettle. You can use it for your extract batches now. And when you switch to all grain you'll be glad you did. I brewed extract on a 6 gallon pot but when I switched to all grain I had to go out and buy a larger kettle.

Really the only extra thing you need is something in which to mash your grains. I built my own mash tun. There's a how to video on it

Past that you might want to invest in a malt mill. Most homebrew supply shops will mill grain for you for free or a small charge. I bought one recently so that I could buy all of my grain in bulk. It's a lot cheaper that way.

 

[Bheher]

x2 on homebrewtastic get an 8 gallon pot or you will need to get another one later

 

[BeastMaster]

I'm a noob as well. So my opinion may not be worth much. But having started out with All Grain I can tell you that alot of the equipment can be used for both. I wouldnt recommend mashing using buckets and a false bottom because its a real pain in the ass to maintain steady temps. If you do end up mashing in a bucket, get some towels/blankets and wrap it up as much as you can so it will hold temp. It was also recommended to me that if you need a slight increase in temperature to heat the wort when you are Vorlaufing(sp?). I'm not sure if that is right or not though. All of that being said I've done 2 AG batches in buckets and helped with a few others. Im currently piecing together my own AG kit and going with a Kewler type MLT. Good luck and most importantly have fun.

 

[superjunior]

for the most part everything needed for extract brewing can be used if you decide to go all grain. those kits usually provide all the basics - fermenting bucket and or carboy, hydrometer, bottling wand, ect.. all can be used for all grain. try to get a kit without a pot and get a nice kettle big enough to do full boils

 

[JNye]

For the most part the equipment in those kits will continue to get used from extract to AG. Those kits focus alot on fermentation equipment. What you really need to mull over is pot size. If you will be going AG soon you should consider a large pot.
The other question is will you be doing this in your kitchen or are you going outside right away? I personally bought a propane/pot turkey fryer setup from Amazon for like $65(I thing its like a 7 gallon pot). It works great, but you do have to watch the boil like a hawk in the beginning and use fermcap. So the only thing I needed to upgrade was a 5 gallon cooler (I had laying around) and a valve/braid set-up that I paid $17 for. So when I went AG I spent $17 to make the switch.
Of course you'll end up "needing" alot of stuff as your experience level grows. Have fun.

 

[BeastMaster]

Oh and I did end up buying a basic Extract kit because it was a cheap way to get all the little stuff(bottling bucket, siphon, hygrometer, thermometer, caps, capper, etc.) Either way you will use that stuff, extract or AG.

 

[ChshreCat]

When I started out, I started with partial mash brews and didn't bother with extract only. You can do small mashes in a pasta pot using your stove and oven and you won't have to buy any extra equipment. Then as you learn more you can do bigger mashes, add more equipment and eventually work up to AG. Just my .02

 

[eastoak]

i started with extract for 2 batches then went all grain, brew in a bag. (do a search here or on google for brew in a bag and you find lots of info, even videos) with BIAB all i needed to buy was a large grain bag for $4 and i was set with the 20qt pot i already had. later on i scored a 7.5 gal turkey fryer set up on craigslist for $25 that made it easier to brew. my first batch (extract) is ready to drink and it's ok but the color is not what i wanted and all grain gives more control over most aspects of your finished brew. i see lots of beginners hesitating about going all grain in order to learn the process more through extract but for me i rather learn by doing the thing i want to do right away. that's my beginner's 2 cents.

 

[The_Professor]

...the only thing I would recommend buying NOW is a larger sized brew pot than what the typical kits come with.
...Get yourself an 8 - 10 gallon brew kettle. You can use it for your extract batches now. And when you switch to all grain you'll be glad you did...

x2 on homebrewtastic get an 8 gallon pot or you will need to get another one later

Exactly what I thought also.

Although, on a side note, I mash small size (2-3 gallon) all grain batches in my 4 gallon pot and sparge using my 6.5 gallon bottling bucket lined with an extra large mesh bag.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Of course you'll end up "needing" alot of stuff as your experience level grows. Have fun.

I agree. I recently convinced my SWMBO that I NEEDED a grain mill so that I could buy bulk grain because "In the long term it's cheaper".

Just like our first conversation about me homebrewing years ago. "Yeah honey. I'm totally going to save money doing this. I just need something in which to ferment and a large pot. Past that it's $30 a batch...."

Several hundred dollars later I'm amazed she hasn't left me.

 

[wolverinebrewer]

You have tons of options and it all depends on how much money you want to lay down. I started slowly. I found this site last March and read daily. I figured out what was in my best interest for equipment based on money. I always want to get the best value for my buck. I put a plan together and started looking at kits. I looked at kits for 2 months and settled on Midwest's Starter Kit for $90. You get 3 "fermenters" (2 buckets AND a carboy) plus all of the other odds and ends. Most other kits in this price range give you only 2 fermenters.
You are going to need to decide how you are going to boil, either the stove or get a burner. I found a burner and unopened 26 qt. turkey fryer pot at a garage sale for $5. I was lucky so it can happen to anybody. I brewed 11 batches with that pot but I've since upgraded to a 60 qt. pot ($50). If you are going to use a burner, I would get at least a 10 gal. pot. If you are going to brew on your stove, you probably are going to need to use a smaller pot.

After you figure this out all you need to do is just buy a beer ingredient kit and you are set to brew.

Going to all grain means you are going to need a container to mash in or do the BIAB method. I happened to have an unused 62 qt. Extreme cooler not being used so just after xmas I purchased a $9 brass ball valve and $7 worth of cpvc to build the manifold. I made this so the manifold is removable to still be able to use the cooler if needed. Before I was looking at a Wal-Mart 50 qt. for $40.
I cant really comment of the BIAB method but you can find other threads on this or read the sticky at the top. Maybe thats a better option for you especially if you are going to brew on the stove.

So all in all, I've spent under $200 so if you are resourceful and a little lucky I think you can aquire all of the necessary items for less than $300. It certainly isn't top of the line stuff, but it will make some good brew.

 

[RitsiGators]

I started all grain and its really not that hard, if you are thinking of going all grain eventually, you might as well start all grain so you do not have to re learn things. Just make sure to read up before your first batch!

 

[nobita]

Also, if you can swing a 10 gal pot vs. the 8 gallon i would say go for it. I got the 8 gallon but was kind of surprised how close to the top 6.5 gallons comes to.

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

When I started I started with extract because I read on forums that all grain was harder and I needed to work my way up. After a couple of extract kits, I did a partial mash. I wish I started all grain in the first place.

If you decide to start extract, do it because you researched the other methods and not because there are "processes" people think you need to get down. IMHO, you are the best judge of what you can understand and how you learn things. While this is likely the biggest home brew forum, there are many others and you will find that there are many ways to skin this cat. Search around and see what you feel most comfortable with.

 

[KYB]

All Grain is easy. That's what I started out doing. So many people make it out to be some big ordeal. You need a big pot, a cooler (and parts to convert), and a propane burner. Brewing software helps a lot too. Past that, heat water, dump in cooler, dump and stir crushed grains in cooler, seal and let sit for 60+min. Drain, add more hot water, let sit for a bit, drain. Then the rest is just like extract. Now I understand some people live in apartments and can't brew like this, but if the difficulty is holding you back, come on, it's easy. I've had the same simple setup for 2 years making great beer. You don't need a fancy setup. I heat the water on my stove (just to save propane), mash in the kitchen, lift cooler on to counter, sparge into pot below sitting on a bucket, carry pot outside on to burner. I also do this with 10gal batches, except take each runnings and dump them in the keg that's already on the burner.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I'll get to all grain eventually, but right now it's not on the radar. Brewing takes 2 hours from setup to cleanup doing all extract boils. I'm not going to get into all grain brewing until I can get a half barrel setup. For me the time versus production isn't worth while for all grain. I simply don't have 6 hours to brew a batch.

 

[Boy]

I started with all grain simply because I had so much of the necessary equipment lying around. I was able to get most of the items in a basic kit from a craigslist purchase, had 2 12 gallon coolers already, then scored an old keg from work to turn into a keggle.

I think all grain is incredibly easy with all of the available information on the web. Spent a few months watching and reading every bit of info on how to brew and my first brew day went incredibly smoothly. I would highly recommend reading both Denny Conn's brewing 101 and Bobby_M's 101 guide. I keep it on the counter while brewing.

Definitely get a big pot like others are saying. I have an extra 6 gallon that I used twice and now find it somewhat worthless except for sparge water.

Good Luck

 

[Luv2crash]

Thanks for all your input. Are you guys buying the 8-10 gallon turkey fryer pots, and then putting your own valves on the bottom to let the water out?

 

[eastoak]

Thanks for all your input. Are you guys buying the 8-10 gallon turkey fryer pots, and then putting your own valves on the bottom to let the water out?

you could but it depends on the type of brewing you do. i have been experimenting with brew in a bag where there is no need for valves. in future i might go to the traditional 3 kettle set up but for now BIAB is working great.

 

[gr8shandini]

I'll get to all grain eventually, but right now it's not on the radar. Brewing takes 2 hours from setup to cleanup doing all extract boils. I'm not going to get into all grain brewing until I can get a half barrel setup. For me the time versus production isn't worth while for all grain. I simply don't have 6 hours to brew a batch.

If you're efficient about it and batch sparge, you can get through an all-grain brew day in 4 hours. There's a lot of waiting involved and there's almost always something you can be doing in that time (as they say in the restaurant biz, "if you got time to lean, you got time to clean"). For me, I feel that the product I get is superior enough to justify the extra two hours. However, I do wish that I would have went bigger on my boil kettle. At first I thought I'd never want to do a 10 gallon batch, but now that I have a few recipes perfected and scored a bunch of cornies on craigslist, it makes much more sense now.

As for the OP, I'd suggest you start with an extract brew and the basic starter kit. Not because you need to "learn the process" or anything (if you can follow a cookbook, you can make good beer), but because you don't know what your commitment to the hobby is going to be. I don't know many people who have been disappointed, but I know lots of folks who sort of take it or leave it. If you end up in the latter camp, a $60 investment is easier to swallow than a $300+ one. As was said earlier, you will still be using a lot of the stuff from the starter kit in AG, just adding to it. Brewing is sort of "modular" in that way.

All that said, the minute you realize you've "caught the bug," go all grain. It's nowhere near as hard as people think just starting out.

Oh, and if you do decide to go all grain, I wouldn't worry about putting ball valves on anything but the MLT. Your strike/sparge water isn't that heavy to just pick up and pour if you have a good set of gloves. And I usually autosiphon off the first few gallons from the boil kettle to get some aeration and reduce spillage. After that it's pretty easy to manhandle the kettle without spilling all over your shoes. Of course all that is going to change after I build my RIMS.

 

[freakshow10mm]

If you're efficient about it and batch sparge, you can get through an all-grain brew day in 4 hours. There's a lot of waiting involved and there's almost always something you can be doing in that time (as they say in the restaurant biz, "if you got time to lean, you got time to clean"). For me, I feel that the product I get is superior enough to justify the extra two hours.

Even 4 hours is a bit much. Got a full plate: 4yo son, a daughter due in June, full time job, part time business and can't afford go go beyond the bucket kit I have now that I got as a present. I'll only be brewing a 5 gallon batch once a month. Something nice and easy to keep beer in the fridge and the fermenter full. The big issue for me is money. Unless I get equipment for free, all grain isn't going to happen in 2011.