All Grain Double IPA Advice

[rjstew]

I've now brewed 3 all grain batches from existing recipe's (Pliny the Elder Clone from Vinnie's homebrew recipe, Black Imperial IPA, Double Witte). All have turned out very nicely. I've decided that I'd try my hand at putting together my own recipe for an all grain IPA. I'm looking for something lighter in color than a typical double IPA and without a sweet malty finish (which is why I substituted crystal with vienna). But I still some body and boozyness. I also like the spicyness of rye in IPA's but I don't want it to be a rye IPA, per se.

Comments?

Double IPA
Method: All Grain
Style: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 9 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 10.5 gallons
Efficiency: 72% (brew house)
OG: 1.116
FG: 1.039
ABV: 10.16%
IBU: 76.68
SRM: 6.79

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
30 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 77.9%
5.5 lb American - Vienna 35 4 14.3%
1.5 lb American - Rye 38 3.5 3.9%
1.5 lb Corn Sugar - Dextrose 46 0.5 3.9%
38.5 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Time AA IBU Type Use
2 oz Warrior 60 min 16 43.19 Pellet Boil
2 oz Cascade 15 min 15 20.09 Pellet Boil
2 oz Centennial 15 min 10 13.4 Pellet Boil
2 oz Amarillo 0 min 8.6 Pellet Boil
2 oz Galaxy 0 min 13 Pellet Boil
1 oz Amarillo 19 days 8.6 Pellet Dry Hop
1 oz Cascade 19 days 15 Pellet Dry Hop
1 oz Galaxy 19 days 13 Pellet Dry Hop
1 oz Amarillo 14 days 8.6 Pellet Dry Hop
1 oz Centennial 14 days 10 Pellet Dry Hop

Mash Steps
Amount Description Type Temp Time
-- Sparge 150 F 90 min

Yeast
White Labs - English Ale Yeast WLP002
Attenuation (avg):
66.5%
Flocculation:
Very High
Optimum Temp:
65 - 68 °F
Starter:
Yes
Fermentation Temp:
66 °F

 

[Yooper]

With a FG of 1.039, this will be very very sweet. As in dessert sweet. It won't be quaffable, it will be thick and cloyingly sweet. If that's not what you're looking for, I'd reduce the OG by reducing the base malt and also subbing some more corn sugar for the base malt so that it's drinkable.

 

[MrManifesto]

I'd also double that 60 min addition. After subbing out grain for sugars, your abv will probably go up and your ibu's aren't extremely high anyway. My honey rye ipa is around 7% and the calculated ibu's are 123. The malts can balance out more than you think...

 

[rjstew]

I just realized that the yeast I was using doesn't have a very high attenuation so I switched to Dry English Ale Yeast WLP007 which is 10% higher. That brought my FG down. I also subtracted 7lbs of base malt, reduced the other malts as well but added a pound of dextrose. FG is now 1.024. Is this still going to be super sweet or will the yeast and dextrose dry it out?

MrManifesto, I appreciate your input but I've found through experience that I don't like the bitter flavor early hop additions add. I'm much more of a floral aroma guy.

This look palatable?


OG: 1.097
FG: 1.024
ABV: 9.56%
IBU: 89.01
SRM: 5.49
Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
23 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 76.7%
3.5 lb American - Vienna 35 4 11.7%
1 lb American - Rye 38 3.5 3.3%
2.5 lb Corn Sugar - Dextrose 46 0.5 8.3%
30 lb Total

 

[NathPowe]

Personally I think 1.024 is still way higher than I'd want for a Double IPA. I'd shoot for 1.013ish (give or take). Just my $0.02.

 

[rjstew]

So how do I get the ABV up to 9-10% but get the FG down?

 

[NathPowe]

To get 9-10% alcohol with an FG of around 1.013-1.015 you need an OG of say, 1.085 - 1.090. The trick is getting the beer to attenuate that low. Looks like you're using some kind of software for recipe formulation, so experiment with the amount of corn sugar you're using. That can help dry the beer out. Also, makes sure to pitch plenty of healthy yeast (use Mr. Malty or something like that to get a pitch rate) and get lots of oxygen into the wort before pitching. You also might consider Cali Ale yeast or something similar that could potentially attenuate lower than an english strain.

 

[stpug]

You could also drop your mash temp down a degree or two to help create more fermentable sugars which will yield a higher ABV and lower FG. If you're worried about body becoming too thin then you could sub in some carapils, however I've found rye to be HUGE in the body department and think you'd be fine just because you're using the rye.

Edit:
I'm also seeing lower FGs than what you're posting when I plug your recipe into BeerSmith.
Original recipe: BeerSmith says FG: 1.028
Swap for DryEnglighAle yeast: BeerSmith says FG: 1.019
Swap for DryEnglighAle yeast mashed at 148F: Beersmith says FG: 1.016

 

[stpug]

Last one, I promise:
recipe: 23 lb 2row, 5lb vienna, 1lb rye, 2.5lb dextrose, WLP007, mashed 150
Beersmith FG: 1.010

 

[rjstew]

I was using http://www.brewersfriend.com for my recipe calculator. Apparently it doesn't take into account mash temps.

 

[MrManifesto]

007 is a beast yeast, that's my house strain. A low mash, big starter and some 02 and I bet it could get down there. It took my imperial oatmeal from 1.093 to 1.024 but that didn't have any sugar and I mashed higher.

 

[BuglessDuster]

I've done a few DIPAs and I used about 98% 2 row pale malt and I've even made one batch with 100%. I like to keep the grain bill simple. For a DIPA, I use about 3 oz of bittering hops - one at first boil (usually the most bitter one - Magnum, etc.) and the other two around :30. The I dry hop the *bleep* out of it. I use 6+ oz. for dry hopping - Target, Centennial, Simcoe, etc.