Aging your brew?.?.?.?.

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pa-in-utah

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What method(s) do use to "age" your keg beer?

Does aging a beer at a cooler temp (in the keg prior to gas) make a difference compared to room temp with no gas.

Didn't know if I should let it sit in the carboy for a few extra weeks, then keg or bulk prime in the keg and let it sit to age and carb......

What method do you all use? I can have 1 keg on tap and one more in the fridge "aging".

I guess these are my options---
1. Keg and let sit in the fridge (34*) for a few weeks, then tap 'er with gas
2. Keg and leave to age (no prime at 50-55* in the basement)
3. Bulk prime in the keg, let her sit at room temp (68-70*) to age and prime
--- Guess Bulk priming takes away the need to force carb, but does that suffice for aging during the priming period?


Any pro's and con's to pass on....... Have bottled 11 brews but I feel like a Noob again switching to kegs......
 
I usually let the beer sit in primary about two weeks after fermentation completes - then I rack to a keg, let it sit at room temp with no carbonation or corn sugar for two more weeks.

After that I chill it, force carb and taste - if it needs more time I'll let it sit in the fridge until it's ready.
 
aging beer is about improving its flavor, NOT its carbonation.

I don't prime kegs, because I don't want the extra sediment in my keg. I tend to haul kegs to family functions, so you want little to no sediment in the bottom, or you'll get cloudy draws after each move.

that said, I like a cool storage in the basement, at least as the seasons permit. in the summer I don't bother moving kegs downstairs to the basement cuz its not cool enough to make a difference.
 
I understand that aging and priming do not go hand in hand....... I was just looking at my options with the keg after some other posts I have read. I want to stay away from priming due to the sediment issue.

So I guess either leave the brew in the carboy a few extra weeks (at a cooler temp, if possible), or place in the keg and age if the ambient temp permits.

I wasn't sure if there would be a problem with putting the brew in the keg and leaving it "flat" for a few weeks to age. Guess not...
 
My only concern with leaving flat beer in an unpressurized keg is oxidation. An unpressurized keg does not always keep a good seal. As far as I know, carbonation does not significantly affect aging, so I would go ahead and carbonate that kegged beer to some level, enough to maintain a good seal, and then age it at no more than that cellar temperature.

Yes, you can have one keg ready to serve in the fridge while another one sits alongside, aging. In fact, you can split your gas line with a manifold so that you can hook up the gas to both kegs.


TL
 
I keep my beer in primary for 2 weeks, then rack to secondary for an additional 3 weeks before kegging, carbing, and serving.

I leave my bigger beers in primary and secondary longer before kegging depending on what it is and how big it is.
 
good info..... The pressurizing in the keg to ensure a good seal.. that is good advice, and I agree with you.

Same with you jaded... if it is a "big" beer, let it sit a little longer. I think you guys helped me out a lot.

I kegged my 1st beer about 2 hours ago. I am totally stoked to give her a try in about 8 days when my brother-in-law comes to town.
 
pa-in-utah said:
good info..... The pressurizing in the keg to ensure a good seal.. that is good advice, and I agree with you.

Same with you jaded... if it is a "big" beer, let it sit a little longer. I think you guys helped me out a lot.

I kegged my 1st beer about 2 hours ago. I am totally stoked to give her a try in about 8 days when my brother-in-law comes to town.

Congrats on kegging your first beer. :tank: The tip about kegging without any pressure on the beer is true, you do run the risk of oxidation or infection. I honestly think that kegging the beer and keeping it just above freezing with about 13psi work wonderful every time. The biggest problem with kegging beer is keeping your hands off of it. I age all my beers in kegs due to i brew allot and i need the fermenter space. with the exception of big brews i bottle and take them to my dads house to forget about them
 
I just started drinking my first kegged batched yesterday. I pitched yeast on 11-21-07, racked on 11-24-07 just as the krausen was dropping. Racked from secondary to keg on 12-08-07 and stuck directly in the fridge.

Gently force carbed up to 8psi over one week. (I was just crackign the valve AM and PM, and then closing it back up). Very gently force carbed to 8 psi, then I turned the gas on and left it on, creep, creep creep on the pressure every 48 hours or so when I thought of it.

The pressure gauge on my new CO2 regulator is not calibrated that I know of. Right now I am at "10psi" and want EdWorts Haus Pale carbed a leetle bit more, I'll probably go up half a psi if i get the same beer tommorrow as I am getting tonight.

I am going to try this a bunch of different ways, but gently force carbed tates at least as good as bottle conditioned ever did.
 
TexLaw said:
My only concern with leaving flat beer in an unpressurized keg is oxidation. An unpressurized keg does not always keep a good seal. As far as I know, carbonation does not significantly affect aging

I agree, I mean bottle conditioning is aging beer that is carbonated.

I am not on to kegging yet so I am not sure, but to avoid oxidation, why not just after racking to the keg, hook up the gas real quick and purge the O2 then disconnect and age without oxygen or carbonation?
 
Gently force carbed up to 8psi over one week. (I was just crackign the valve AM and PM, and then closing it back up). Very gently force carbed to 8 psi, then I turned the gas on and left it on, creep, creep creep on the pressure every 48 hours or so when I thought of it.

Why the meticulous effort around the pressure??

I would think that the beer carb. charactaristics will settle at the same point based on pressure and temperature regardless of the "road" you take to get there.

Isn't the carbonation portion just a function of temperature, pressure, and the surface tension of the beer?

Back on topic::::
I was looking for a thread on aging... I always read about green beer, and wondered what the best policy was... more importantly, I'm getting ready to ramp-up the brewery and I'm wondering about storage.

The questions:

1. How long before I can drink my beer (more to the point, how long until it is no longer considered "green")?

2. When is the optimal time to drink the beer? (When should I brew for that special occasion?)

3. When does ageing go from a good thing to a bad thing? (How long can I store my beer?)

I think the answer is complicated for these things, and has to do with the different types of beer. For instance, IPA is designed to preserve well...using hops and alcohol to fend off nastys. However, smaller, less hopped beers may be more succeptible to fouling. I'm not sure if this preservation effect also slows desirable maturation.

In any case, I was wondering... are there rules of thumb? Are the rules different for bottle/keg/Cask?

One of my worst beers ever was a nut brown ale, which I tasted 8 weeks after bottleing (bottle conditioned). Turns out one of my best beers was the same nut brown ale, about a year later (when I ran out of every other kind of beer, what a nice suprise it was)...

There must be a comprehensive article about beer aging somewhere... I couldn't find it so far, though...
 
Note: In all of my following comments, your mileage may vary! They are opinions only!

jfliv said:
1. How long before I can drink my beer (more to the point, how long until it is no longer considered "green")?

Like most things in life, "It depends." Depends on the style, the conditions in your brewery, the procedures you've adopted for your brewery, etc. For example, a low-gravity, English-style Ordinary Bitters can be fermented to completion in three or four days, racked to a cask (with finings and priming) and served a week to ten days later. Turnaround? 14 days. On the other hand, another English style, Barleywine, can take weeks to ferment and months of aging before it becomes palatable. Another example: Pilsner. Same sort of gravity, bittering, etc. as Bitters (that's a simplified example!), but must be stored for weeks before packaging.

Shortly, there are myriad variables to be considered, not the least of which is your experienced palate - you must taste each sample you take of your beer during its brewing cycle, from kettle to glass. Each gravity sample, at racking time, at packaging time. Take notes. Eventually, you will discover that point where each recipe comes into its own, and can more readily plan.

2. When is the optimal time to drink the beer? (When should I brew for that special occasion?)

IMO, that's so closely related to #1 that I'll simply refer you to my above comments. :D

3. When does aging go from a good thing to a bad thing? (How long can I store my beer?)

I think the answer is complicated for these things, and has to do with the different types of beer. For instance, IPA is designed to preserve well...using hops and alcohol to fend off nastys. However, smaller, less hopped beers may be more susceptible to fouling. I'm not sure if this preservation effect also slows desirable maturation.

You're 100% right - it is complicated, due to the wide variety of variables. Aging alone isn't necessarily a bad thing; all beer does well with a bit of time to consolidate flavor after the period of vigourous fermentation ceases. Judging that length of time really can only come from experience.

Commercial breweries - even respected microbreweries - can have a beer like a 6-7% ABV IPA from brewkettle to your glass in 14 days. And it tastes fabulous! But their processes are quite different from ours. Let me illuminate one process: filtration. Once you sterile-filter a beer, stripping out the yeast, you essentially remove any possibility for the beer's flavor to change (except chemical staling, but that's a bit too complicated for this post), because in removing the yeast, you've stabilized the beer. Once filtered, force-carbonate to ~2 volumes and package. Ship it out and tap it. It is the rare homebrewer who filters his beer. Hence, our beer is never quite stabilized, thus its character changes over time.

Style also has something to do with it. You can brew a beer like Belgian Wit and really ought to have it gone within a couple of weeks. You can brew a Barleywine and cellar it for a decade.

For me, the most important flavor I learned to recognize was freshness. That's hard to learn, but very much worthwhile, because - once you've learned to recognise when the beer was "ripe" or no longer green - you must now learn to recognise when it's stale. The best method is by drinking lots of beer. "Damn!" I hear you shout. "Not that!" :D

Try it with a nice Witbier. Either make some or purchase some, carefully checking the dates on the package. Better yet, make some of your own, then buy an assortment of domestic and imported examples. Set up a blind tasting and sample them all. I can all but guarantee you'll find the best-tasting example is the one that's been in the package the least amount of time (considering bottle-conditioning vs. force-carbonation)!

Better yet, buy a sixer of Hoegaarden just before you get on the plane to Belgium, then taste the bottled import next to a fresh draught as close as you can get to the source. The difference is dramatic.

In any case, I was wondering... are there rules of thumb? Are the rules different for bottle/keg/Cask?

My only rule of thumb is to listen to my beer. I take daily gravities when it's in the primary, graphing the ferment. I always taste the sample, write my notes, then compare them with previous batches (I tend to brew the same dozen recipes, with few trips afield, in case you can't tell!). From there on out, it's a judgment call made on experience. There are few rules, of thumb or otherwise, to guide you.

Do I rack it? Dunno. Is it something that needs to be racked before it can be packaged?

If I racked it, how long do I keep it under an airlock? Dunno. What have I brewed before that's like the beer in question? What do the guys on HomeBrewTalk say? What do my books tell me?

Do I package it instead of long bulk aging? Dunno.

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. All these things are best answered by experience tempered with judgment and good old common sense. Another example - I know the last brown ale I brewed tasted wonderful with a month in a carboy in my basement. That was in December, where the basement was, on average, 60 degrees. Now it's June. A variable has changed (the basement's ambient temperature), making it impossible to know that I can replicate the previous beer. So I must make a judgment call. That's a SWAG - Scientific Wild-Arsed Guess. :rolleyes:

One of the wonderful things about homebrewing is that our beer is a living creature that can do surprising things, no matter how we try to split hairs. You gave a really good example in your post:

One of my worst beers ever was a nut brown ale, which I tasted 8 weeks after bottleing (bottle conditioned). Turns out one of my best beers was the same nut brown ale, about a year later (when I ran out of every other kind of beer, what a nice suprise it was)...

That's part of the experience-building, which makes later judgment calls easier to make - okay, maybe not easier, but certainly with more confidence.

I've blithered enough. I hope that, somewhere in the above quagmire of no definitive answers, you've found something useful. ;)

Cheers,

Bob
 
pa-in-utah said:
…I wasn't sure if there would be a problem with putting the brew in the keg and leaving it "flat" for a few weeks to age. Guess not...

I do 10-gallon batches so I don’t have a choice but to “store” one of the kegs.

Rack your beer to the keg. Seal it and hit it with about 30 pounds of gas. Bleed the pressure valve on the keg a few times to purge the O2 out.

Once the O2 is out and you have a good 30 pounds of pressure in there…disconnect and set aside to condition.

Another option is to keg, chill and fully carb (30 pounds for 48 hours), then disconnect and set aside to condition. Then when you’re ready, the beer is fully carb’d and only needs to be chilled.

It really depends on when your CO2 hose is available to carbonate the beer.
 
This is usually how I age mine, it gets a week to maybe two weeks in a secondary just depending on when I feel like bottling it, and then it sits in a box in the garage for 3-4 weeks maybe as much as a couple of months till I can finish the beers in the fridge. Once I put 5 gallons ( 2 cases ) in the fridge then it lasts a week, maybe 2. There's not more aging than that because I drink it too fast.
 
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