Aging Big Beers

[JayDubWill]

I brewed an imperial pumpkin ale and an english mild parti-gyle yesterday. Since beersmith doesn't do parti-gyle yet I had to play the runnings by ear. I ended up with an O.G. of 1.098 for the pumpkin beer. For those of you that have brewed big beers what's your standard primary/secondary/conditioning time line look like? Right now I'm thinking 4 weeks primary, 2 weeks secondary, keg and let carb/condition for another 2 weeks. Hopefully it will be drinkable by thanksgiving. Or is my thinking completely off and I should just bottle after primary/secondary and let this sit in a dark corner until next October?

 

[forstmeister]

The only way to know if it will be ready is to do it and sample it. The only time I have done a big beer was a barley wine that I let age in secondary for several months before bottling. It turned out good, but it is still mellowing and improving after 5-6 months in the bottle too.

 

[OhReally]

+1 to the sampling. Only time will tell. I just bottled a new batch of Scotch Wee Heavy last week (OG 1.085) that had been 4 weeks in primary and then 3 months in secondary (2 months were with scotch-soaked oak cubes). I also have a barleywine that's been in bottle 10 months that's really coming into its own.

Patience pays off

Cheers!

 

[GrogNerd]

I'm brewing the imperial pumpkin ale recipe from the recent issue of Zymurgy

OG of 1.118, it says best aged 1 year

 

[JayDubWill]

Thanks for the replys. I think I'll keg and bottle half once it's mildly carbed. I've never done a beer this big and I would love to see how it ages.

 

[mtnagel]

I brewed an imperial stout 15 months ago and it gets better every time I try a bottle. It wasn't bad in the beginning, but it keeps getting better. That was primary'ed for 1 month and secondary'ed for 3 months.

 

[Cyclman]

+1 it depends. I have made dubbels that were very good to start, and got better with time, and some that needed time to be very good.

 

[Calichusetts]

I often do hop-forward big beers. That way I can drink a few after a couple months and still get a nice balance. And save the rest for the malt-bomb they become and watch the complexity change. Very fun to do. Just started cracking a few of my 15% barleywine. About 10 months from brew date right now. Most I am saving for a few years from now

 

[Brewrifle]

I'd say wait at least 4 months for a beer that big, but you could always sample after each month that passes to see how it's aging. I definitely think waiting for high ABV beers turns out to be better in the long run.

 

[JayDubWill]

Thanks brewrifle. I'm only a week into the primary fermentation, I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

 

[alane1]

A little off topic but what was the gravity of the mild?

 

[GrogNerd]

I often do hop-forward big beers. That way I can drink a few after a couple months and still get a nice balance. And save the rest for the malt-bomb they become and watch the complexity change. Very fun to do. Just started cracking a few of my 15% barleywine. About 10 months from brew date right now. Most I am saving for a few years from now

very interested in your 15% barleywine, if you have the time

like what yeast you used, any nutrients, did you re-pitch at all, time in primary, did you secondary?

I have a 13% brew coming up, 10% is the biggest I've done before. need as many tips on getting it to finish. I appreciate any help at all

 

[TAK]

^ me too.

I have a barley wine I just brewed a bit over a week ago that I expect to be about 12% or a bit higher. Interested in the 15% recipe and process, batch age, bottle age, etc.?

 

[Calichusetts]

very interested in your 15% barleywine, if you have the time

like what yeast you used, any nutrients, did you re-pitch at all, time in primary, did you secondary?

I have a 13% brew coming up, 10% is the biggest I've done before. need as many tips on getting it to finish. I appreciate any help at all

2.5 hour boil...basically just planned my 12% barleywine at 120% and boiled off to the normal amount. Used some brown sugar to get it the rest of the way. Yeast nutrient, oxygen, and a rising ferm temp over 1 week actually got me to just under 12% with S-05. I was very surprised. Champagne yeast (with nutrient) in the secondary and two weeks on two types of oak and dry hopped (chinook, columbus, cascade). I think it spent 7 weeks in the primary and 4 in the secondary. I saw so little activity in the secondary I had no hopes of this carbing but there was a low carbonation after two months and after 3 it was there. Has been one of my most talked about beers I have brewed. Nearly 8 months later, its still a balanced beer between hops and malts though the malts are starting to shine. I'll keep trying it to a year then put the rest away to age.

Not the most detailed post, at work. I can get more in-depth later.

 

[GrogNerd]

2.5 hour boil...basically just planned my 12% barleywine at 120% and boiled off to the normal amount. Used some brown sugar to get it the rest of the way. Yeast nutrient, oxygen, and a rising ferm temp over 1 week actually got me to just under 12% with S-05. I was very surprised. Champagne yeast (with nutrient) in the secondary and two weeks on two types of oak and dry hopped (chinook, columbus, cascade). I think it spent 7 weeks in the primary and 4 in the secondary. I saw so little activity in the secondary I had no hopes of this carbing but there was a low carbonation after two months and after 3 it was there. Has been one of my most talked about beers I have brewed. Nearly 8 months later, its still a balanced beer between hops and malts though the malts are starting to shine. I'll keep trying it to a year then put the rest away to age.

Not the most detailed post, at work. I can get more in-depth later.

this helps a lot, would still love to hear more

my brew will be the Great Pumpkin imperial pumpkin ale from the latest issue of Zymurgy.

but they were a little vague on the yeast, "whatever monster you have a lot of"

 

[Calichusetts]

this helps a lot, would still love to hear more

my brew will be the Great Pumpkin imperial pumpkin ale from the latest issue of Zymurgy.

but they were a little vague on the yeast, "whatever monster you have a lot of"

I'd probably go with Denny's favorite or another high gravity yeast and see how high I can get it with just one yeast next time. You are most likely going to have to add a high gravity yeast down the road if you want it to break 14% and carb and not use a higher gravity yeast first, champagne is often used. Most yeasts have their "max" abv in their data sheets or easily found online. With the proper conditions you can break that. I do 12% with S-05 all the time with not a lot of fuss. Nottingham will also get you there and could get up to 14% with the right conditions. I think that is what they mean by "monster." You need a yeast known for churning through beers easily and can get up there in ABV

 

[GrogNerd]

I'd probably go with Denny's favorite or another high gravity yeast and see how high I can get it with just one yeast next time. You are most likely going to have to add a high gravity yeast down the road if you want it to break 14% and carb and not use a higher gravity yeast first, champagne is often used. Most yeasts have their "max" abv in their data sheets or easily found online. With the proper conditions you can break that. I do 12% with S-05 all the time with not a lot of fuss. Nottingham will also get you there and could get up to 14% with the right conditions. I think that is what they mean by "monster." You need a yeast known for churning through beers easily and can get up there in ABV

I was thinking Notty too, haven't used it before. I've subbed out MO for the 6-row in the recipe, to give it English character, was leaning towards English yeast too.

I have WLP007 in the software, but it's just a placeholder for now.

local HBS doesn't sell Wyeast

 

[TAK]

For a 12% beer, say FG of 1.030, is there any chance that when re-pitching (champaign yeast for example) to bottle condition, that they may attenuate more than just bottling sugar?

 

[Calichusetts]

I'm not entirely sure but many brewers pitch champagne yeast at bottling time and don't have bottle bombs so I guess not. I pitch it in a secondary and hope that if will finish off a few points and create a layer of CO2 to prevent oxidation. Sometimes I even add some sugar to ensure it happens.

 

[GrogNerd]

directions for The Great Pumpkin

add oxygen 24 hours after pitch
add maple syrup and yeast nutrient on day 4
add 1 lb sugar and additional yeast on day 6
add 1 lb sugar on day 8

 

[Calichusetts]

directions for The Great Pumpkin

That looks about right for getting a steady and healthy path to a high ABV. Does it say anything about ramping up the temp?

 

[GrogNerd]

ferment at 68°(20°C) for two weeks

then

Obviously this one takes a while to age. At least one year is best. Your patience will be rewarded

 

[JayDubWill]

A little off topic but what was the gravity of the mild?

It came in at 1.028 (after boil) before I added a pound of brown sugar which brought it up to 1.036. I was hoping for a little higher but seeing this was my first parti-gyle I'm just happy I got something. I'm also happy to report the mild is the fastest beer i've ever made. At day 9 it was down to 1.010, tasted great if a bit thin so I kegged it. I'll be drinking this on day 14 just in time for my next hybrid parti-gyle; a chocolate stout and brown porter. I'm calling it a hybrid because i'm actually making two 5 gallon batches of regualar strength stout, combining the grains, and then adding a couple more pounds of pale malt and some Special B to do the porter.

 

[JayDubWill]

I'd probably go with Denny's favorite or another high gravity yeast and see how high I can get it with just one yeast next time. You are most likely going to have to add a high gravity yeast down the road if you want it to break 14% and carb and not use a higher gravity yeast first, champagne is often used. Most yeasts have their "max" abv in their data sheets or easily found online. With the proper conditions you can break that. I do 12% with S-05 all the time with not a lot of fuss. Nottingham will also get you there and could get up to 14% with the right conditions. I think that is what they mean by "monster." You need a yeast known for churning through beers easily and can get up there in ABV

So I used Wyeast 1098 English Ale, on my big pumpkin because that's what I had on hand. It tops out at 10% but at day 12 it seems to have stalled at 1.036 (~8%), even though i've "roused" the yeast by gently swirling every day for the last three. Here's my plan, tell me if i'm nuts. I am doing a stout this weekend that should finish at about 5%abv. After the stout is kegged I'm thinking of racking the pumkin beer onto the yeast cake to hopefully bring the gravity down into the low 20's. I planned on using S-04 on the stout. Do you guys (and gals) think this will work or will the roughly 8% pumkin ale kill the yeast cake that's used to 5% abv or maybe cause other problems?