Advice on capping problem

[Saffersa]

Hi all

Hoping for some advice here, with a capping problem... I think.

So the scenario is I bottled 120 x 330ml bottles, brand new from supplier A, on thursday with caps from supplier B.

Problem is I can twist the caps after crimping, on about 80% of the bottles.

Thought it was because of the long -neck bottle/ wing capper problem, but I had a bench capper available from a neighbour so I did a quick re-cap to make sure and I can still twist the caps.

Have tried a variety of caps( 1 colour is rock solid?? Blue, in case you were wandering) as I had spare colours from left over batches but the twist problem persists. Except for the blue.?

I now think the problem could be the bottles themselves. Have retried the various colour caps with both bench and wing capper on older used, shop bought beer bottles and no problemo.

My question is what do I do?
Or do i need to do anything at all now and just wait a few weeks and try recarb and recap later?

This is new territory to me, only 8 AG brews done, all issues to date have been with hops and timings, bottlings been a walk in the park so far.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Keep brewing

 

[balrog]

Hold new bottle up to old bottle and compare from all dimensions
If the diameter is different, well, that's a tough one. There are two sizes of capper bells.
If the neck height is different, that will affect wing capper but not bench capper

 

[Saffersa]

Hi balrog
Bottles(new) are completely different from my old had-beer bottles: long neck - chamfer as opposed to double -rib ( I do not know the correct bottle terminology, did you notice at all?)
Could see the wing capper might struggle with the new bottle shape, but have since tried with bench capper : slightly better but still too much movement for my peace of mind.
Pretty sure it's not the diameter/ bell cap size difference issue. No difference to the eye .
Currently thinking it's the bottle itself- perhaps a casting line issue.
Starting to wonder how I can somehow slow down carbonation process until Monday when I can try caps from bottle supplier, and hope that somehow solves the crisis if not the question of why.
Thanks for replying.

 

[balrog]

can you, literally, hold up the mouth opening of old/good bottle to mouth opening of new/questionable bottle, as in that image above on the left, stack them precariously and photograph?

 

[balrog]

See this thread also capping problem

 

[Saffersa]

can you, literally, hold up the mouth opening of old/good bottle to mouth opening of new/questionable bottle, as in that image above on the left, stack them precariously and photograph?

The above bottle is the tried and trusted, the below is new, brew-supply shop-bought.

 

[Dinadan]

The bottom bottle looks exactly like what I use with no problems with my wing capper. The top bottle probably would not work with my wing capper. So you are saying that one out of three kinds of caps works good? Have you tried using the new caps that do not work on one of the trusted and true bottles?

 

[Saffersa]

The above bottle is the tried and trusted, the below is new, brew-supply shop-bought.View attachment 694875

Checked with a caliper as well, as per my BH's insistence. Same outside, different inside, which has no bearing on current problem.

 

[Saffersa]

The bottom bottle looks exactly like what I use with no problems with my wing capper. The top bottle probably would not work with my wing capper. So you are saying that one out of three kinds of caps works good? Have you tried using the new caps that do not work on one of the trusted and true bottles?

Hi Dinadan
Well you can rest easy then, the wing capper takes the top bottle fine.
Summary of my tinkering: all colour caps (so far) work fine on top bottle with both wing and bench capper.
So far only blue caps work perfect on bottom bottle.
To the eye, there appears to be no physical difference between various coloured caps. Does not look like blue cap has a thicker seal or anything.
The bottom bottle is the new element and somehow the culprit.
Trying to now figure out a Hail-Mary to salvage the +-100 bottles.

 

[Saffersa]

Checked with a caliper as well, as per my BH's insistence. Same outside, different inside, which has no bearing on current problem.

Photo shows no escaping CO² from bottle, nor does bottle leak if tipped on its side and left for some time.
But it still "twisty" .

 

[kartracer2]

@Saffersa This may be of little consolation but I have turned store bought beer caps forgetting they were not twistys. It was difficult but they were still carbed up just fine. That said I went and checked some of my bottled beer and all caps seemed tight and not able to turn by hand.
The color thing is just strange. The bottles I checked had 3 different colors, gold, yellow and white and 2 different bottle styles,,all good. I used a wing capper. I would lay a couple of the questionable bottles on their side for several days and then check for wetness. If they are carbing they should leak if there is a prob.
I wish you the best and sorry I have no real answer.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Dinadan]

@SaffersaThat said I went and checked some of my bottled beer and all caps seemed tight and not able to turn by hand.
Joel B.

I did exactly the same thing when I read this thread. I could not turn mine either.

The only idea I have is to replace all the caps with the blue caps, and I am guessing that if you had that many you would already be doing that. Maybe the seal will hold even if you can twist the cap: I have no experience with that.

 

[balrog]

could be my eye but when bottle is standing upright
THe distance from topmost edge of opening down to where folded crimps would seal, is slightly further on top bottle
Maybe
I just don't know what to think.

 

[MikeCo]

All I can think of is that the bottles you are using have a non-standard diameter opening, and the blue caps fit because they are the correct size, and the others are a different size. Do you have any other bottles you can try? I assume all caps used are 26mm.

Also check the bell size on both cappers to be sure it's 26mm rather than 29mm.

Does it take a lot of torque to twist the caps, or are they very loose?

 

[Saffersa]

I did exactly the same thing when I read this thread. I could not turn mine either.

The only idea I have is to replace all the caps with the blue caps, and I am guessing that if you had that many you would already be doing that. Maybe the seal will hold even if you can twist the cap: I have no experience with that.

I'm hoping they hold for the weekend until I can maybe try rustle up some new same- type/everything cap on Monday. That said, I think I'll be carrying my capper around the brew shop with me next time I do a bottle run. I've become my father apparently, the man never bought anything in a box without opening it on the shop floor first

 

[IslandLizard]

The above bottle is the tried and trusted, the below is new, brew-supply shop-bought.View attachment 694875

@Saffersa. You didn't mention you don't live in the U.S. Therefore it's very possible your bottles, caps, and wing capper are made to different standards. Chances are bottles, caps, and/or capper are not interchangeable among different standards.

First off, the bottle on top (your "trusted" one) is not standard here in the U.S. but may be standard where you live.
The bottom one actually looks much more like the standard longnecks we have in the U.S. Observe the difference in the shape of the collar (the top part of the bottle).

The distance between the top of the lip and the bottom of the "grip rim," where the wing capper grips, has to be within certain tolerances to make a positive seal. The shape and dimensions of the lip may also play a role, as does the shape and dimensions of the caps used.

Aside from perhaps using incorrect caps, your capper may be made to seal the bottles like the ones you have on top, but not the bottom ones.

I had a bunch of bottles I wanted to reuse, but the "grip rim" was in a slightly different position than standard U.S. longnecks. Couldn't crimp em at all.

Now a bench capper doesn't use the "grip rim" so it should be able to cap any bottle just fine, as long as the caps are the correct ones for those bottles.

As mentioned before, the crimping bell is also important and needs to be a match for the caps used.

 

[IslandLizard]

On a side note:
For many kinds of equipment/ingredient questions it would be very helpful to reveal your "general location" in your User Profile, especially when you're not in the U.S. Or at least mention it in your top post.

Much of this discussion could have been much more focused on your particular scenario and problem.

 

[Saffersa]

Greetings all
Hope everyone is well.
An update, if anyone is interested: the fault was with a seam-casting line on the bottle itself. Supplier had to recall or replace an entire batch of a couple 1000 bottles apparently, due to a manufacturing/workshop repair fault in one of the bottle-casts.
The beers were fine, despite the "twistable" caps. I decided to let things be, and see what happens. No noticeable loss of carbonation at all, if anything some of them are gushers, so I might've stuffed the sugar syrup amount up for the bottle conditioning. And damn tasty to boot too.
So at the end of the day, despite a little bit of stress, the beers are good and the supplier has offered to replace all the bottles with new ones.
Keep well everyone, and again, thanks for the advice.

 

[IslandLizard]

An update, [...]

Thank you for the follow up.

Where was the seam issue? On top of the lip?

 

[Saffersa]

Thank you for the follow up.

Where was the seam issue? On top of the lip?

The side of lip. Will post a photo tomorrow- time to hit the sack . 00.43 this side if the world