Advanced extract brewing

[Demus]

Fist hop add was at 60 min. That's what threw me off when I read over the sheet... Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

I bet the kit instructions are generic; they give the same sheet for the extract and all grain kit. A :90 boil serves 2 purposes for an all grain batch.
-1, you boil off more water concentrating the wort to a higher gravity.
-2, you create "kettle caramels", darkening the color slightly and getting a bit maltier flavor.
Neither of these reasons really make sense when brewing with extract. Since they have already been boiled once they are generally darker than an equivalent amount of base malt freshly mashed, and you have total control over how much water you use so there shouldn't be any reason for extra boil off. Save the half hour next time and keep the boil at :60...

 

[unionrdr]

I did AE for the first couple years of brewing. I've done some 10 partial mashes now. As to the question of a small mash with a lil bit of base malt,I've done that. I did my dark hybrid lager with 13.25ozs of grains in about 1/2 gallon of water @ 152F for an hour. Sparged with a little over a gallon of 170F water. As I remember it was about 3 gallons boil volume.
I had odd amounts of Munton's plain DME left,so 1lb plain extra light & 1/2lb plain light DME's into the boil for the flavor hop additions. At flame out,I added 1lb Munton's plain amber DME (my lhbs was out of my usual DME's in usual sizes). And the kicker? 1 can Thomas Cooper's Heritage Lager! Their most expensive can at $25.
Pitched one vial of WL029 kolsh yeast into the OG1.046 wort. With the grains also providing some color besides flavors & freshness to this odd assemblage of ingredients. So being mostly extracts,& having to compromise on the DME,it came out very well. Here it is;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/PICT0001-2_zps4b72f12c.jpg.html] [/URL]
So a small partial mash isn't much different than steeping,save for more accurate temp & water amount. Getting used to doing that whether steeping or mashing will develope some good process habits that'll always come in handy. I've also done AE IPA's with a Cooper's can,some plain DME & hops. Here's my 1st IPA BuckIPA,an AE 6G batch;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/IPA3.jpg.html] [/URL]
Just a Cooper's can,3lbs of Muntons plain light,or extra light DME usually,& the right kind & amount of hops. Although when I brew'em again,I'll add a lil tiny bit of bittering to augment the Cooper's bittering amount.
There are so many different extracts out their now compared to when I got into beer brewing a couple years ago,it's astounding. You can do some great AE beers without grains now,what with munich,vienna,marris otter & the like being available in extract form now. Toss in some quality liquid yeast like I did/do, & you'll be amazed at how different & good that simple recipe can be.
I even did an AE Burton Ale,but it's getting upgraded too. And it def wasn't cheap;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/PICT0006-2.jpg.html] [/URL]
It used 2 Cooper's cans,3lbs of Munton's plain light DME,& 3oz of hops. Def needs to at least double the hops. To all that malt,I'm going to add about a 6lb PM to get more of the flavors their original 2-3 hour boils used to get. Should be a beast. Out of all this,I have no desire to go all grain. I love playing with extracts & grains. All partial boils in the same 5 gallon (20QT) SS stock pot I started with. I just put a cake cooling rack in the bottom of the kettle to keep the 5G nylon paint strainer bag from burning/melting on the bottom. Makes steeping or mashing more efficient,since the grains can be stirred to break up dough balls & evenly wet them. & I wrap the BK/MT in my winter hunting coat to maintain mash temp. It even goes up 1 degree over the course of an hour with all the steam in the dead space.
So my whole point is,there's a ton you can do with partial boil,extracts & grains available nowadays. Just read what which one contributes to color,flavor & aroma,how much gives what,etc. That'll give you plenty to imagineer without AG or full boils. they're nice,but not absolutely needed. Being Sunday,this sermon is ended,go in peace!

 

[icepatrol]

All good info.I've been doing extract batches for about a year & a half, 17 or so. Glad I found this post.like most I don't have the time to go all grain.the question for me is boil time . I've read about breaking down sugars of malt takes 90 min.but I've always done 60 min boils. Any truth to this? Please keep writing the more knowledge the better!!

 

[Frankiesurf]

HeyBxbrewer, good thread! I too am a fisherman and homebrewer but on LI.

I was an extract brewer until I went into partial mash. I won't ever knock extract because the ease and simplicity but a BIAB partial mash only takes another few minutes to brew. Using the same equipment as extract except for a paint strainer bag you can tweak your recipes even more for flavor and color.

For the uninitiated a PM brew is basically an extract brew. The only difference is that you are using fermentable grains instead of just steeping grains which are primarily unfermentable. They just, as was mentioned before, provide color and taste.

While it may seem difficult at first, it really is as simple or complex process a you want it t be. With steeping grains you steep at 170 F, for mashing your strike water is at say 164 degrees (depending on the amount of water and grain). That is usually what I strike at and get really good efficiency.

I usually only use between two to four pounds of grain as that is all my BK will allow and continue on with a 3 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch.

My last two brews came out exactly with my target volume and target OG. My first foray into PM and my own recipe came out ( on the second batch of it) with a competition winning beer. This after brewing for only a year and two months.

Anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Once you understand the process and get your techniques down with extracts and steeping grains try the switch to partial mash. With the same equipment as extract you can fine tune your beers even further.

Again, I am not taking away from extract brewing. That is the stepping stone that I used. I most likely won't go to AG anytime soon but without figuring the process out in the extract world I never would have been able alter my process a little bit and make even better beer.

 

[JTTX80]

I'm pretty new to this but if I remember from what i read the reason to steep using smaller amount of water is because it allows the grain to bring down the PH of the water faster to allow for the extraction of more proteins and sugars preventing the leaching of tannins from the grain hulls. I do mostly extract but will add up to 5 lbs of grain because its cheaper to buy grain then extract and I an to move to AG eventually so I like getting to know how grain mash works even on a small scale.

 

[Frankiesurf]

I'm pretty new to this but if I remember from what i read the reason to steep using smaller amount of water is because it allows the grain to bring down the PH of the water faster to allow for the extraction of more proteins and sugars preventing the leaching of tannins from the grain hulls. I do mostly extract but will add up to 5 lbs of grain because its cheaper to buy grain then extract and I an to move to AG eventually so I like getting to know how grain mash works even on a small scale.

From what I have read, you only get tannins from steeping or mashing above 170 degrees.

 

[unionrdr]

I can mash (so far) 6lbs+ of grains in my 5G SS BK/MT. Mash @ 152-155F for an hour,sparge at 165-168F,giving a boil volume of 3.5 gallons. I wind up with some 2.8-3 gallons to top off to 5 or 6 gallons in the fermenter,depending on the recipe. But yeah,keeping water volume to grain amounts to minimum -medium is supposed to keep PH down. I mash 5-6lbs of grains in 2 gallons of water,sparging with 1.5 gallons. I use 3 to 3.3pounds of extract at flame out to get up to recipe OG. But it can be rewarding to do an AE brew once in a while to save time. But also having a greater knowledge base to apply to making a better beer with those extracts. Even combining new combos of extracts after having worked with the grains themselves.
And tannin extraction is being found to have more to do with PH than temperature.

 

[Mordhaus]

Well, this escalated quickly. Thread officially over my head.

 

[cheesehed007]

I bet the kit instructions are generic; they give the same sheet for the extract and all grain kit. A :90 boil serves 2 purposes for an all grain batch.
-1, you boil off more water concentrating the wort to a higher gravity.
-2, you create "kettle caramels", darkening the color slightly and getting a bit maltier flavor.
Neither of these reasons really make sense when brewing with extract. Since they have already been boiled once they are generally darker than an equivalent amount of base malt freshly mashed, and you have total control over how much water you use so there shouldn't be any reason for extra boil off. Save the half hour next time and keep the boil at :60...

Here's what I got back from Northern Brewer today. Yes an email reply on a Sunday.. Outstanding.

Steve (Northern Brewer)
Aug 11 10:47 (CDT)

Hi Bruce,

The large volume of wort will generally have a darker color than smaller samples will show in a glass. That being said, the ninety minute boil is meant to increase kettle caramelization leading to a deeper wort color & increase in malt flavor intensity. I'd hold out hope & taste a sample after primary fermentation is complete. That kit typically needs 3-4 weeks of aging in secondary or extra time spent in the bottles to yield a beer with a balanced, but hoppy, flavor.

Cheers!

 

[Demus]

For the uninitiated a PM brew is basically an extract brew. The only difference is that you are using fermentable grains instead of just steeping grains which are primarily unfermentable. They just, as was mentioned before, provide color and taste.

I'd like to point out that this isn't quite accurate. Steeping grains such as the various crystal malts absolutely do add fermentable sugar to your wort. Crystal malts are basically already mashed inside the kernel itself; the starches are already converted to sugars. Chew on one and see; it will be crunchy and sweet as opposed to chewy and grassy. A brewer need only crack the crystal malt and get the sugar into solution with warm water. That's why water volume, temperature and pH aren't critical when steeping crystal, or cara-malts. Base malts on the other hand are all starch, and require a full mash to convert the starch to sugar. This process might seem similar to steeping, but requires much more attention to water/grain ratio, water chemistry and temperature to work properly. This is true whether it's a partial mash or a mash for your entire recipe...

 

[flatlanderHQ]

This is an interesting thread for the extract brewer who is dedicated to honing their skills. It should be noted however, and perhaps it has been mentioned already in this thread, that everything discussed in the Original
Post is outlined in great detail in such books as Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beer. This is an indispensable resource for the home brewer. JZ and Palmer's book Brewing Classic Styles cites Daniels as a fundamental inspiration for the creativity and craft that can be applied to extract and AG brewing alike. BCS is in itself a testament to the award winning beer that can be made with extract / steeping / partial mash techniques. As always, find the freshest possible ingredients, do your research, hone your technique, use good water, sanitize rigorously, pitch enough healthy yeast, control fermentation temps and you will have beer you can be proud of.

 

[Teesquar]

Curious as to why the grain steep is at 170? I'll do my 30 minute steeps at around 155 to allow for more fermentables. If I want a bit more "sweetness" to the brew, I'll go closer to 160. John Palmer's "How to Brew" has a pretty good explanation on the various temps ... Chapter 14 I believe.

A little excerpt:
"What do these two enzymes and temperatures mean to the brewer? The practical application of this knowledge allows the brewer to customize the wort in terms of its fermentability. A lower mash temperature, less than or equal to 150°F, yields a thinner bodied, drier beer. A higher mash temperature, greater than or equal to 156°F, yields a less fermentable, sweeter beer. This is where a brewer can really fine tune a wort to best produce a particular style of beer."

 

[Mozart]

I'm relatively new to the hobby with about 10 or so brews under my belt (most brewed solo, but a few with a friend). All of my brews thus far have been either all extract, extract with steeping grains, or partial mashes.

Aside from the reduced space and equipment requirements and shorter brew days (clear advantages associated with extract brewing), I've recently discovered another advantage many extract brewers can enjoy.

More rapid wort cooling.

Extract and partial mash brewers who do partial boils have a lot less heat to remove from their wort than the full volume boil all-grain brewers have.

For my last few brews, I have prepared about a gallon of santized ice the day before, put an additional couple of gallons of top off water in the refrigerator, and have left a gallon or so at room temperature.

When it comes time to cool my wort, I put the ice in the bottom of my fermenting bucket, pour in the near boiling wort, and stir until the ice has melted. This doesn't take very long. Then I add refrigerated top off water until I hit my target temp, finishing up with the room temperature water if I it my target temp before having topped up to my typical 5 gallon batch size.

No immersion, counterflow, or plate chillers required.

One thing I love about this method, and part of what makes it rather quick (aside from cooling a smaller volume of wort) is that I'm only cooling the wort, I am not cooling the kettle!

One of these days I'll take some temperature measurements pre and post wort cooling, as well as record the elapsed time for the process, but I have a feeling that I spend a lot less time (and money, since the only required equipment is some inexpensive containers to make ice in) than a lot of the full volume AG brewers. After all, even with dedicated wort cooling equipment, they're still cooling a lot more wort than I am, and likely cooling their vessel as well.

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

 

[McAle]

Great thread! I'm learning a lot and enjoying the read. Many thanks to BxBrewer and all who contributed.

 

[brew_ny]

BxBrewer where are you from in the Bronx ? I grew up in Soundview and went to Taft high school, I live upstate now in the woods

great thread thanks for starting it

S_M

 

[Demus]

I'm relatively new to the hobby with about 10 or so brews...

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

Mozart, please don't take this the wrong way. We all have our own motivations for brewing, and I doubt anyone brews for the ease of it. In this day and age of craft brew revolution, the simple answer is a trip to the local market! I personally brew with extract on occasion in certain situations and completely respect those with various constraints who are happy to do it exclusively. But pros and cons aside, there's something so satisfying about producing beer from a bag of dry grain. If I ever own acreage I'll take it even further and try growing and malting the grain. 10 brews in isn't relatively new to the hobby, it's brand new. I'm glad you're happy with your results, but I hope you keep an open mind and become a student of crafting beer using many techniques. Trust me, you'll gain a deeper appreciation of beer as you attempt increasingly complex recipes and techniques. Like any sport or hobby, you get better at it by pushing your boundaries, not staying in your comfort zone.

I hope you take my comments in the positive nature I intended them. Brew on!

 

[Brulosopher]

...but I have a feeling that I spend a lot less time (and money, since the only required equipment is some inexpensive containers to make ice in) than a lot of the full volume AG brewers. After all, even with dedicated wort cooling equipment, they're still cooling a lot more wort than I am, and likely cooling their vessel as well.

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

I'm absolutely certain you're spending less time (and money) on your beer than I (a full volume AG brewer) am. 100% no contesting that, I can guarantee it. And if your purpose in making beer at home is to streamline the process and reduce the time you spend in the craft, then more power to you. My goal is great tasting beer, which I believe is one of the many well documented advantages of AG brewing. I also enjoy the act of brewing, from doughing-in to chilling... clean up can be a *****, but hey.

I hope you accept this in the positive tone I intended

 

[Mozart]

I hope you take my comments in the positive nature I intended them. Brew on!

So taken, and I absolutely will brew on!

Yes, I'm a pretty new brewer, but there's already been an evolution in my techniques. My first brews were extract or extract with steeping grain. It didn't take all that long for me to start doing BIAB partial mashes. After my first partial mash, I realized that as long as I was willing to sacrifice a little quantity (brewing 2.5 to 3 gallons instead of my usual 5), that it would be easy enough to brew an AG BIAB batch. That one's carbonating as I write this.

I think part of the fun of this hobby is learning, experimenting, and improving, and one can do each and every one of those things whether one is an extract, partial mash, or AG brewer.

 

[brew_ny]

I think part of the fun of this hobby is learning, experimenting, and improving, and one can do each and every one of those things whether one is an extract, partial mash, or AG brewer.

so true, it is all about finding out what works for you in your setup so you are able to turn out the end product that you want

I am a new brewer and have only done a couple of extract brews with steeping grains just kegged my second on Sunday a very hop forward West Coast type IPA

and it tastes great, I am getting ready to start a Porter partial mash in the next hour or so

all the best and enjoy the day

S_M

 

[BxBrewer]

@ Brew NY, im in Shore Haven part of the bronx. At the end of Castle hill ave.

@Brulodopher i welcome your input. While some have never brewed a AG batch a beer yet. There are some who do both. And even some who went back for extract or partial mash full time. Like you i say brew on ! In this day and age. With new products,ingredients and processes . The debate between AG and Extract just isn't there. BTW the article you wrote on yeast harvesting is wonderful ! Im going to start on mine today !

@FlatlanderHQ, there a lot of great books out there on brewing. The point of me starting this thread had a couple of purposes. One was to show that there are people out there who love brewing and take brewing with extracts seriously . The other was to showcase some of the other brew day processes and techniques than the standard advancements . I cant tell you how many times ive ran into this and the thread says a lot. And for me just rocking the carboy isn't enough. When i used to do partial boils i used a wine degasser chucked into my cordless drill to make sure the two were mixed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/og-readings-abv-426560/#post5427468

 

[steveoc]

+1 on the refractometer suggestion. Just ordered mine from Amazon. I've gotten better at honing in my OG, but I've had a few notable exceptions. $24 is a small expense for the convenience of being able to adjust before flame out.

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll mention it here. When extract brewing higher gravity beers, it's tough to get sufficient attenuation to get the target FG. In a BN podcast, Jamil Z explains that extract manufacturers create their extracts with typical gravity beers in mind when they pick their mash temperature. He suggests replacing some of the malt extract with sugar:

If you are brewing with extract and not quite reaching the finalgravity listed below, try replacing about 1.3 lbs. (0.59kg) of the lightmalt extract with 1 lb. (0.45kg) of corn or cane sugar. This will enhance the fermentability of the wort and result in a lower final gravity. You can push this higher if needed, but don't exceed 20 percent simple sugars.

I have tried this and I have much better luck reaching the desired FG. (As a bonus, I was able to buy dextrose corn sugar in a 50 lb sack for $27 through a food service/bakery supply outfit).

Another thing that has helped save time and ease the process has been a wort chiller. I picked up a nice inexpensive stainless steel one:

http://www.nybrewsupply.com/3-8-x-25-stainless-steel-wort-chiller.html

They have it on Amazon too, so you can do the math and figure out which deal works out best with shipping. I don't miss lugging pots brimming with hot wort to a sink or tub! Just drop that thing in 15 minutes before flame out to sanitize and turn on the cold water when done. You might want a hose adapter for your kitchen sink, and pick up a little extra tubing to make sure it reaches from your sink to the stove (although I brew outdoors now, so I just hook it up to a hose).

 

[BxBrewer]

Steve your on the money! I posted this as part of a quote.

Extracts are frequently less fermentable than AG, especially something like "Gold", which likely has Munich malt and a pretty good % of crystal. When I was helping NB design kits from my recipes I had them add a lb. of sugar to the kits in order to increase the fermentability and finish at the same FG as rhe AG versions.

It hits home what I do myself. Although I take it a step further. Caine or corn sugar can dry a beer out of style. I've found having extra light DME on have and adding in some Maltodextrin brings back the body and mouth feel. If I'm brewing kits I toss the priming sugar in as well since I keg.

Stuck fermentation's, the dreaded 1.020 that is associated with all extract brewing has been debunked. Just because there is sugar reading on a hydrometer or refractometer doesn't mean it's fermentable .

 

[steveoc]

For my big brews I've had much better luck with corn sugar than DME (which I also keep on hand) in reaching the target FG. Most of what I brew has been in the 1.070-1.100 OG range of late. I really enjoy big bold beers

I'm about to add some maltodextrin to "repair" a stout without enough mouth feel. (Picked up a 50 lb sack of that too, but can't see doing that again).

Briess Golden Light has base malt and carapils, but no Munich. I'd like to know the ratio of base/carapils.

 

[GrowlerMonkey]

What a great thread.

I've done about 10 extract kits and this thread has given me the confidence to formulate my first extract recipe. Before I do I have a few questions...

When using the extra light extract as the base, is there any benefit using LME over DME? I only ask because I would like to buy some in bulk and I've read of the shorter shelf life of the LME. I'd just go with a lesser amount of LME if it is in fact prefereable for flavor.

Also, any suggestions for the best websites to build your own kits as far as shipping and quality of ingredients is concerned. I've only purchased kits from NB, AHS, and Morebeer..never any individual items.

Thanks BXBrewer for putting this thread together. I just finished reading and wish there was more!

Cheers!

 

[steveoc]

When using the extra light extract as the base, is there any benefit using LME over DME? I only ask because I would like to buy some in bulk and I've read of the shorter shelf life of the LME. I'd just go with a lesser amount of LME if it is in fact prefereable for flavor.

Also, any suggestions for the best websites to build your own kits as far as shipping and quality of ingredients is concerned. I've only purchased kits from NB, AHS, and Morebeer..never any individual items.

Thanks BXBrewer for putting this thread together. I just finished reading and wish there was more!

Cheers!

I tend to use LME but I always keep DME on hand. When I have a recipe that requires 8 pounds of LME, but my container holds 6 pounds, I usually top off with DME to make up the difference. I have no strong preference one way or another, but I can tell you that DME can be a royal PITA when there is a lot of humidity. I go through extract pretty quickly, so as long as my source if fresh, I am good.

I live deep in the boonies, so I buy in bulk whenever I can and constantly calculate the price per pound of extracts factoring in the shipping. There are many sites that have some nice buys in bulk, but they typically rescind discount shipping for such. That's fine if you live fairly close. Williams Brewing has great discount prices for bulk LME 32 lbs packs broken into 4 -8 pound packs, but it's a better deal for me to buy the more expensive 6 and 8 pound packs with discount shipping because I live in NYS. I really like their malts and they also have a pale ale malt (unlike Briess). Midwest also has some multipack deals if you live in the Midwest. Morebeer used to be a good source with their free super saver shipping, but they upped the price of LME to $3.10/lb. I shoot for +/- $2.50/lb.

Now I usually buy 33 lb growlers from a LHBS for $80. They special order them for me so they are reasonably fresh.

I don't buy kits, so I can't help with that. I buy most of my hops now from atonofhops.com. That might change with the fresh harvest of hops. I'll likely buy pounds and repackage them with a Seal-a-Meal. There are eBay stores that sell 5 packs of dry yeasts around $3/pack with free shipping. I piggy back grain purchases on other online orders or buy from one of the LHBSs. Having a grain mill allows me to keep a wide variety of grains on hand.

 

[unionrdr]

I prefer DME in the boil,as it won't darken nearly as quick as LME. But in my AE beers,I tend to use both. But LME goes in at flame out.

 

[ballsy]

I'm relatively new to the hobby with about 10 or so brews under my belt (most brewed solo, but a few with a friend). All of my brews thus far have been either all extract, extract with steeping grains, or partial mashes.

Aside from the reduced space and equipment requirements and shorter brew days (clear advantages associated with extract brewing), I've recently discovered another advantage many extract brewers can enjoy.

More rapid wort cooling.

Extract and partial mash brewers who do partial boils have a lot less heat to remove from their wort than the full volume boil all-grain brewers have.

For my last few brews, I have prepared about a gallon of santized ice the day before, put an additional couple of gallons of top off water in the refrigerator, and have left a gallon or so at room temperature.

When it comes time to cool my wort, I put the ice in the bottom of my fermenting bucket, pour in the near boiling wort, and stir until the ice has melted. This doesn't take very long. Then I add refrigerated top off water until I hit my target temp, finishing up with the room temperature water if I it my target temp before having topped up to my typical 5 gallon batch size.

No immersion, counterflow, or plate chillers required.

One thing I love about this method, and part of what makes it rather quick (aside from cooling a smaller volume of wort) is that I'm only cooling the wort, I am not cooling the kettle!

One of these days I'll take some temperature measurements pre and post wort cooling, as well as record the elapsed time for the process, but I have a feeling that I spend a lot less time (and money, since the only required equipment is some inexpensive containers to make ice in) than a lot of the full volume AG brewers. After all, even with dedicated wort cooling equipment, they're still cooling a lot more wort than I am, and likely cooling their vessel as well.

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

Ayyyyyy-men brother!!! The rapid cooling with ice as part of bringing to full 5gal volume instead of cooling an already 5gal vol of 200deg+ wort to below 70 w/o adding anything to it is a huge monkey off the back!

 

[BxBrewer]

Ayyyyyy-men brother!!! The rapid cooling with ice as part of bringing to full 5gal volume instead of cooling an already 5gal vol of 200deg+ wort to below 70 w/o adding anything to it is a huge monkey off the back!

Quiz time ! lol. When doing a partial boil 3.5 gal and it boils down to 3 gal. What is the OG of the wort before diluting it with top off water or melted ice ? Lets say the recipe is for a 5 gal batch at 1.050.

Senario, your batch is supposed to be 1.050. After topping off with water and chilling your at 1.040. Out of that at best say your at least 70% fermentable ?

What are you going to get ? How are you going to fix it ?

Let the games begin

 

[BxBrewer]

What a great thread.

I've done about 10 extract kits and this thread has given me the confidence to formulate my first extract recipe. Before I do I have a few questions...

When using the extra light extract as the base, is there any benefit using LME over DME? I only ask because I would like to buy some in bulk and I've read of the shorter shelf life of the LME. I'd just go with a lesser amount of LME if it is in fact prefereable for flavor.

Also, any suggestions for the best websites to build your own kits as far as shipping and quality of ingredients is concerned. I've only purchased kits from NB, AHS, and Morebeer..never any individual items.

Thanks BXBrewer for putting this thread together. I just finished reading and wish there was more!

Cheers!

There is only one place that i know of where i can get "Ultra" light LME. Not to be confused with extra or light. In my brewing/testing its about 80% + fermentable and consistent. That comes from MoreBeer.

As a base i bought the same kit or ingredients for the same recipe from every major home brew supplier . I recommend everyone to do the same. Shop around and experiment to find what and who works best for you.

 

[steveoc]

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

I am puzzled as to how full boil and extract brewing are mutually exclusive. That's what I do—full boil extract brewing. It certainly is not necessary, but full boil is certainly one way to bring it up a notch (or two).

 

[BxBrewer]

I am puzzled as to how full boil and extract brewing are mutually exclusive. That's what I do—full boil extract brewing. It certainly is not necessary, but full boil is certainly one way to bring it up a notch (or two).

Im a little puzzeld as well That one slipped by me. I just started doing full boils not that long ago. 8.5 gal ekettle.




Here is my 5 gal pot i used before.



Why not throw a beer shot in as well lol.

 

[steveoc]

There is only one place that i know of where i can get "Ultra" light LME. Not to be confused with extra or light. In my brewing/testing its about 80% + fermentable and consistent. That comes from MoreBeer.

As a base i bought the same kit or ingredients for the same recipe from every major home brew supplier . I recommend everyone to do the same. Shop around and experiment to find what and who works best for you.

This conversation has led me to delve deeper into malt extract sources. Morebeer's ultralight is 100% base malt; whereas Briess golden and many other light LMEs are base malt and carapils. Williams brewing has an American light LME that is also 100% base malt. Williams has been a favorite source of LME and is significantly cheaper than Morebeer.

Williams Light LME is 18.90 for 8 lbs. mix and match any 8 pouches of LME and get a buck off each (including 6 lb pouches). They have fixed priced shipping that amounts to $12-14. Comes out under $2.50/lb.

Their Pale Ale malt cost $1 more and contains only European 2 row.

I'll likely return to Williams, but it's hard to beat the deal I get for growlers of Briess golden because I get a discount for building and maintaining a LHBS's website. If not for that, I'd probably buy much more from Williams.

 

[Demus]

I am puzzled as to how full boil and extract brewing are mutually exclusive. That's what I do—full boil extract brewing. It certainly is not necessary, but full boil is certainly one way to bring it up a notch (or two).

Full boil with extract does one thing for sure: takes one of the primary advantages of extract brewing away.

 

[Mikeymikeandthefunkybunch]

Wow great thread!

I just brewed my first batch yesterday and woke to the sound of a busy airlock. Was rather exciting. I did alot of research before jumping into my first extract brew; a couple of books and this forum. Have some questions that I am searching for answers/opinions about late extract addition brewing and this seems like a place for it.

1. I did late extract on the Autumn Amber Ale kit from Midwest Supplies. A 1/3 at the beginning and the rest at flame out. This got me to thinking if the steeped grains preboil are sufficient for hop utilization? I have read and understand that for best results some amount of extract needs to be added for the full boil. My curiousity is if the steeped grain "tea" will utilize the hops and then the extract can all be added at flame out?

2. My other question is does the extra time before cooling (the time after flameout when some or all of the extract is added and stirred into the wort, I did 10 minutes) have an impact on the hops? The kit I purchased had hop pellets and added some at 60 and some at 2 minutes. I believe from what I have read that the 60 minute hops (bittering) should not be affected. Will the later addition hops whether flavoring or aroma be be impacted by the ten minutes after flameout for late addition extract?

3. Has anyone had many successes or failures with Midwest Supply kits?

Thanks for any responses.

 

[BxBrewer]

Full boil with extract does one thing for sure: takes one of the primary advantages of extract brewing away.

Im not sure where your coming from ? I am interested in your input though

Wow great thread!

I just brewed my first batch yesterday and woke to the sound of a busy airlock. Was rather exciting. I did alot of research before jumping into my first extract brew; a couple of books and this forum. Have some questions that I am searching for answers/opinions about late extract addition brewing and this seems like a place for it.

1. I did late extract on the Autumn Amber Ale kit from Midwest Supplies. A 1/3 at the beginning and the rest at flame out. This got me to thinking if the steeped grains preboil are sufficient for hop utilization? I have read and understand that for best results some amount of extract needs to be added for the full boil. My curiousity is if the steeped grain "tea" will utilize the hops and then the extract can all be added at flame out?

A lot of new brewers think that way. Chances are steeping grains used are only for color and flavor. You need some base malt "extract" for hop utilization"

2. My other question is does the extra time before cooling (the time after flameout when some or all of the extract is added and stirred into the wort, I did 10 minutes) have an impact on the hops? The kit I purchased had hop pellets and added some at 60 and some at 2 minutes. I believe from what I have read that the 60 minute hops (bittering) should not be affected. Will the later addition hops whether flavoring or aroma be be impacted by the ten minutes after flameout for late addition extract?

Ive never had a problem. i know it seems funny to put aroma and flavoring hops in at the last minute. My trick is to leave them there during the chilling.

3. Has anyone had many successes or failures with Midwest Supply kits?

They make a solid kit. Although like posted above. There "mixed extract" does not ferment out fully. There kits do not give enough fermentable sugars or extract to hit the FG in the recipes. Most "kits and recipes are like this. This is why we AEB brewers use a very light extract and let the steeping grains dictate the style of beer in both color and flavor.

Thanks for any responses.

 

[BxBrewer]

This conversation has led me to delve deeper into malt extract sources. Morebeer's ultralight is 100% base malt; whereas Briess golden and many other light LMEs are base malt and carapils. Williams brewing has an American light LME that is also 100% base malt. Williams has been a favorite source of LME and is significantly cheaper than Morebeer.

Williams Light LME is 18.90 for 8 lbs. mix and match any 8 pouches of LME and get a buck off each (including 6 lb pouches). They have fixed priced shipping that amounts to $12-14. Comes out under $2.50/lb.

Their Pale Ale malt cost $1 more and contains only European 2 row.

I'll likely return to Williams, but it's hard to beat the deal I get for growlers of Briess golden because I get a discount for building and maintaining a LHBS's website. If not for that, I'd probably buy much more from Williams.

Im high five you that you understand that extracts have a different fermentability . Extract brewers need to know that we need to compensate for that. I took a hard look at Williams. They seem rock solid and would recommend them to anyone. My problem lies in the shipping cost. Morebeer may be $3.80 more but the free shipping is sweet. I do build and brew recipes. But i find myself brewing there kits more often than not. Two kits a order and its Fedex for free. Fedex is a up charge on Williams. Did you know Morebeer now ships from the east coast ? Blah its all just nit pick stuff. Everyone should go where they want to go for ingredients. Im glad you understand the fermentability on the extracts. That has thrown a curve ball to many.

 

[CrookedTail]

Awesome thread, BxBrewer. Something that's sorely needed, in my opinion.

Extract gets a bad rep for many reasons. Some of it is snobbery, nothing you can do about that. Some of it is because of people do not know how to properly use the ingredient. Know what is in the extract you are using, and factor that into your recipes. If you are already using an amber or dark extract , don't add another 2+ pounds of crystal malt to them. And I'm going to disagree with the notion that you should never use darker extracts. If you know what they'll add to your beer, then there's nothing wrong with using them.

Extract also gets a bad rep because in the past, extract kits came with terrible instructions. "Add 8 pounds of extract to two gallons of water, boil it to death, and then add water to make it five gallons."

With a sound recipe and proper handling, extract beer can be just as good as any all grain brew. I'd put many of my extract beers against any AG brew of the same style.

Speaking of recipes, I think would be great is to have a repository of extract recipes. The recipe section has plenty of them, but I find they get drowned out by all of the AG ones. It'd be great to have them all in one place. Maybe even list some in this thread.

 

[unionrdr]

Quiz time ! lol. When doing a partial boil 3.5 gal and it boils down to 3 gal. What is the OG of the wort before diluting it with top off water or melted ice ? Lets say the recipe is for a 5 gal batch at 1.050.

Senario, your batch is supposed to be 1.050. After topping off with water and chilling your at 1.040. Out of that at best say your at least 70% fermentable ?

What are you going to get ? How are you going to fix it ?

Let the games begin

I do 3.5G boils that leave me with 2.8-3 gallons. I don't measure pre or post boil gravity though. I know my process will give me on target OG or a couple points higher when topped off to recipe volume. Like with my PB/PM BIAB Maori IPA,the est OG was 1.057,actual was 1.060. with the change from 3.2oz chocolate malt to 8oz melanoiden malt,it should be more like 1.062.

 

[Mordhaus]

Here is my 5 gal pot i used before.

How do you like your hop strainer? I've been contemplating getting one and I prefer that design to the hop spider. I want to be able to stir throughout the boil and a spider won't allow that. Well, unless you want to lift the thing out every time you stir.

 

[steveoc]

Speaking of recipes, I think would be great is to have a repository of extract recipes. The recipe section has plenty of them, but I find they get drowned out by all of the AG ones. It'd be great to have them all in one place. Maybe even list some in this thread.

You can sort the recipes by method in the recipe section of this site. At the top of the column that gives the type of recipe (i.e. All Grain, Partial, Extract) click on the word Prefix. After that, a blue icon appears next to the Word Prefix. Click on the blue icon and it will sort the recipes by method. Makes it a lot easier because all the extract recipes are together.