Adjusting Mash PH

[byronyasgur]

I'm just getting into water chemistry and I'm trying to get my head around the basic technique. The question I have is this: If I get my strike water ( and sparge if sparging ) correct and use some tool like Bru'n water to also add in my fermentables and work from there - then is the mash PH derived from this and will the prediction of the software be fairly accurate - OR do I need to do measurements and adjustments of the mash PH as well. I'm confused because some people seem to just add 5.2 stabiliser to the mash and not do any strike/sparge water adjustments beforehand. So is it a case that if I get my strike /sparge water right in the first place that I mightn't even need to test my mash ph - or that I might just test it but shouldn't really need to have to adjust it; and if that's not a correct analysis then should I just be starting out by getting the mash ph right by adding 5.2 stabiliser or lactic acid or something direct to the mash and worry about strike water chemistry later. And I suppose I could add the same question regarding the boil.

I know that I need to start with either a water test or an RO filter and I have an RO filter being installed since water tests are kindof expensive here and the water from the tap doesn't seem to be consistent.

 

[JohnK93]

I'm in the same boat as you...just starting with water adjustments. I've heard that the 5.2 stabilizer does not work as advertised and that you shouldn't use it, although I've also heard the opposite, so who knows. I'm trying to avoid it in favor of using RO water or Lactic acid to adjust mash pH. I've also heard the Bru'n water does a very good job of predicting pH fro people who have measured their pH and compared to the predicted value.

I've only got 1 water adjusted brew under my belt and can't really speak definitively, just sharing what I've read and heard so far.

 

[billl]

If you start from RO and use Bru'n water, you really shouldn't need to make additional adjustments, but it never hurts to measure. Bru'n water seems to be pretty good when the baseline is "0" for everything. If your water is more variable than that, or use grains that don't necessarily match the grain profiles set up, you might need to make minor adjustments.

As a general progression, you put in your grain bill, you enter the mineral adjustments you plan for the style, and then monkey with the acid additions to get to your targeted PH.

For 5.2 Stabilizer - it is what it is. It's a simple buffer and will buffer towards 5.2. Depending on your water and grain, that may get you close enough to the desired range or you may completely overwhelm it's buffering capacity and end up way out of range. To know if it's going to work for you, you would basically need to read up on water chemistry anyway, and then you would know how to make the adjustments yourself for less money.

 

[byronyasgur]

makes sense - thanks

 

[TheHopfather]

The most important thing to keep in mind when you start playing with your water is that the entire goal of that process is to hit a mash pH. 5.2 pH buffer isn't magic, you won't just hit a mash pH of 5.2 by using it. My advice would be to skip it and just focus on gypsum, calcium chloride and lactic acid using RO water.

Enter your grain bill into Bru'N Water, figure out your water volumes and then tweak your salt additions until you're close to one of the adjustment presets. Once all of that is done you add in your lactic acid amounts until you are in your desired pH range (5.2 - 5.4 pH for light beers and 5.4 - 5.6 pH for dark beers seems to work well). Without a pH meter you cannot be sure you're hitting your predicted pH, but in my experience you'll be pretty close.

 

[mabrungard]

For most beer styles, the 5.2 product is not suitable for producing good results. It actually tends to buffer the wort pH toward 5.8 and not 5.2. That is not where we want pale beers to be.

It's always good to verify predictions since software and equations can never precisely anticipate the variations in our ingredients. Checking pH will at least alert you that something was off. Then you can work at correcting or accommodating that variation.

 

[byronyasgur]

The most important thing to keep in mind when you start playing with your water is that the entire goal of that process is to hit a mash pH. 5.2 pH buffer isn't magic, you won't just hit a mash pH of 5.2 by using it. My advice would be to skip it and just focus on gypsum, calcium chloride and lactic acid using RO water.

Enter your grain bill into Bru'N Water, figure out your water volumes and then tweak your salt additions until you're close to one of the adjustment presets. Once all of that is done you add in your lactic acid amounts until you are in your desired pH range (5.2 - 5.4 pH for light beers and 5.4 - 5.6 pH for dark beers seems to work well). Without a pH meter you cannot be sure you're hitting your predicted pH, but in my experience you'll be pretty close.

For most beer styles, the 5.2 product is not suitable for producing good results. It actually tends to buffer the wort pH toward 5.8 and not 5.2. That is not where we want pale beers to be.

It's always good to verify predictions since software and equations can never precisely anticipate the variations in our ingredients. Checking pH will at least alert you that something was off. Then you can work at correcting or accommodating that variation.

lots more good stuff to think about - thanks everybody you've saved me god knows how long

 

[RM-MN]

Use the software and make additions to the water to hit the predicted pH. Use a pH meter to verify but if you mill your grains fine, don't try to adjust the pH during the mash. By the time you collect a sample and cool it so the pH meter will read it correctly the bulk of conversion will be done and any attempt to change the conditions for that mash will be wasted. Just take good notes of what you did and the outcomes and make any necessary adjustments to the next batch.

 

[mongoose33]

Use the software and make additions to the water to hit the predicted pH. Use a pH meter to verify but if you mill your grains fine, don't try to adjust the pH during the mash. By the time you collect a sample and cool it so the pH meter will read it correctly the bulk of conversion will be done and any attempt to change the conditions for that mash will be wasted. Just take good notes of what you did and the outcomes and make any necessary adjustments to the next batch.

I read this somewhere else here on HTB; take a shot glass or some small glass with a lot of mass, put in freezer, deposit sample from mash tun into it. It'll cool off in a hurry.

I have a couple taster glasses from a distillery and they are about perfect for this.

 

[byronyasgur]

Have any of you used the new brewing water and mash ph tools in beersmith 2.3 - I suppose bru'nwater looks a bit daunting and I'm fairly familiar with beersmit; so I might go that route if it would work; but I wonder does it operate on the principle of getting the strike/sparge water right to get the mash ph right - or is it more focused on adjusting the mash ph after the fact. I haven't been able to try it out yet but I heard that the old version of it wasn't that good which is why people were using bru'nwater

 

[toddk63]

My $0.02

Measuring and adjusting pH with acid before mashing is like chasing your tail. Unless your water is loaded with buffer, pH will swing wildly with acid adjustments. It took me a while, but I finally got away from this method. Now I calculate residual alkalinity (RA) from my starting water profile and any salt adjustments I make. If RA needs adjustment to match target RA (calculated from expected SRM color), I do so with the calculated amount of acid (never checking the pH at this point). I use Muratic acid (HCl) diluted to 1N (1 Normal). This makes the acid addition calculation easy by using 1N HCl. Proceed to mash, and only then check the pH to verify. Its always on target with this method.

Acidifying sparge water is bit more complicated. That story is for another day.

Todd K.

 

[Morrey]

Learning water management seems to an intimidating topic, but the difference it makes in your beers is worth the effort to learn.

Bru'n Water is considered by many to be "the" program to use. I found several Bru'n Water tutorials on YouTube and watched them several times while I practiced using the program. It seemed complicated at first, but in a short time you'll get a handle on it.

 

[mongoose33]

Learning water management seems to an intimidating topic, but the difference it makes in your beers is worth the effort to learn.

Bru'n Water is considered by many to be "the" program to use. I found several Bru'n Water tutorials on YouTube and watched them several times while I practiced using the program. It seemed complicated at first, but in a short time you'll get a handle on it.

I recently "bought" Bru'n Water (a donation) based on how many people have said how terrific it is--and so many people have said how easy it is to use.

Well. I think it's a powerful program (well, spreadsheet), but easy to use it is not. I hadn't thought about looking to YouTube for some tutorials.

I've tried to get it to reproduce results from previous brews, after putting in the grain bill, the salts I used, lactic acid if that went in--and I can't get close to what my measured PH was.

The biggest issue for me is that I amend my mash water as per other water calculators, and sparge with RO water. Darned if i can tell how to account for that.

I'm sure it's there--I'll have to check out those tutorials and see what I'm missing.

 

[waverz]

My $0.02

Measuring and adjusting pH with acid before mashing is like chasing your tail. Unless your water is loaded with buffer, pH will swing wildly with acid adjustments. It took me a while, but I finally got away from this method. Now I calculate residual alkalinity (RA) from my starting water profile and any salt adjustments I make. If RA needs adjustment to match target RA (calculated from expected SRM color), I do so with the calculated amount of acid (never checking the pH at this point). I use Muratic acid (HCl) diluted to 1N (1 Normal). This makes the acid addition calculation easy by using 1N HCl. Proceed to mash, and only then check the pH to verify. Its always on target with this method.

Acidifying sparge water is bit more complicated. That story is for another day.

Todd K.

Whenever your ready to elaborate on how you do your sparge water I'm listening.

 

[mongoose33]

Whenever your ready to elaborate on how you do your sparge water I'm listening.

Me, too. Since very early on I've only sparged with RO water, as per some things of Yooper's I've read. If that's not the best practice, I'm all ears for what is.

 

[njpatg]

I brew with RO water which comes in at 7.0 ph , adding 2 to 3% acidulated malt gets me right where it needs to be . Hope this helps

 

[RM-MN]

I brew with RO water which comes in at 7.0 ph , adding 2 to 3% acidulated malt gets me right where it needs to be . Hope this helps

That might get you to the proper pH but the enzymes like a little mineral to do their best job. You might be best served by reading a bit about adjusting your pH by mineral additions.