Adding "wort out" temp to panel

[gregkeller]

So I'm in the middle stage of planning my electric brew rig, I've settled on a basic idea, have most of the parts figured out and am now trying to work out some of the "nice to have" things in addition to the already figured out "need to haves"

I'm wondering if anyone has incorporated a clean way of showing the temp of the wort out of my chiller. I'm currently using a plate chiller, but will probably end up using a CFC. I like to know the temp of my wort as it exits the chiller. I've got a simple set up now with an thermopen that plugs into a coupling on a t.

Thinking about it came up with a few different ways to skin a cat:

A: I figure the easiest way to incorporate this into the panel is to just unplug my mash tun temp wire and plug it into another sensor that's in my chiller output.

B: Are there any other ways of having a discrete chiller output "screen" on my panel without having to use a separate PID? It wouldn't be a big deal, but seem like overkill since it won't be controlling anything, just displaying the temp (same would go for the mash tun I guess), so if I could find something like that, I might also use it to show mash tun temp instead of a dedicated PID.

C: Is there a way to have two separate temp probes tied into a single PID, either at the same time and toggle between probes or have a switch to alternate between them?

D: Add a 4th PID to the enclosure, rig it up similar to the mash tun for wort output, this way I can tie it into the buzzer alarm to sound once the output is at pitching temp (when recirculating/whirlpool)

Ideas?

 

[IslandLizard]

Why would you need a PID for a simple temp readout? You're not controlling anything in the chilling/whirlpool loop, are you?

I'm not on an automated system, it's all hands on.
I recirculate and whirlpool with my plate chiller in the loop, since that also pasteurizes the whole circuit, mainly, the inside of the chiller (no chilling water flowing). I've looked at ways to bypass the chiller during whirlpooling, for less resistance etc. but it takes a 3-way valve and a lot more fittings and hoses. Not sure it's worth the effort.

Now I do bag all my hops (several roomy fine mesh nylon bags, weighed down with glass marbles) and have a smallish, coarse kettle filter on the exit port to prevent anything larger entering the pump/chiller loop.

 

[gregkeller]

That's the thing, I don't want a PID, don't see a need for it. Also don't see a need for the mash tun PID either, it's not controlling anything. That's why I asked. It looks like Auber has something that might fit the bill, a two channel temperature monitor (SYL-2802B). I could wire the mash tun sensor and wort out sensor to the same monitor. That is about $50, they also have a 1/32 DIN size monitor, and I could just install two of those, but it seems like that has a lot more bells and whistles than I want.

The only reason I want my temp on the panel is so that it's easy to see. Using a completely separate temp solution isn't bad, but just doesn't put everything I need to pay attention to right infront of me like this panel mounted temp sensor would.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, using a $7 Arduino Nano clone, a $10 20x4 (or even 16x2) I2C lcd panel, a $3 rotary encoder switch/pushbutton, and $2 ds18b20 One Wire temperature sensors, one could display as many temperature readings as desired fairly cheaply...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

That's the thing, I don't want a PID, don't see a need for it. Also don't see a need for the mash tun PID either, it's not controlling anything.

PID's are for automatically controlling a process as a function of the temperature, pressure, flow, etc. So with chilling you don't have to, but you could regulate a valve, for example, that restricts or cuts flow, and/or shuts something off, etc.

Most PID's we use are temp driven.

If you're just interested in reading the exit temp of the chilling loop, use a simple readout, or one of those multi-probe ones to save space and possibly get a more advanced one with alarm options and such.

Re: your mash PID:
If you don't recirculate/heat your mash automatically, then no, a PID is not needed. But since you're automating, the mash is THE top brewing process that benefits from automation, as a function of a set temperature. The PID controls that process. Don't you recirculate and heat the mash directly or indirectly with HERMS/RIMS etc.?

 

[gregkeller]

I’m planning on a herms system so I’ll measure mash temp but will be controlling mash temps with the HLT temp. I’m going to basically try and build a simplified version of Kal’s control panel. The mash will constantly be recirculated So there isn’t anything to be “controlled” by the mash tun PID, so that’s why I was thinking a simple temp display would be better. HLT will have a regular PID and boil kettle is gonna have an auber ez-boil.

 

[IslandLizard]

I’m planning on a herms system so I’ll measure mash temp but will be controlling mash temps with the HLT temp. I’m going to basically try and build a simplified version of Kal’s control panel. The mash will constantly be recirculated So there isn’t anything to be “controlled” by the mash tun PID, so that’s why I was thinking a simple temp display would be better. HLT will have a regular PID and boil kettle is gonna have an auber ez-boil.

The best "automated" 20 gallon homebrew mash system I've brewed with uses a small 1 gallon eHERMS pot with a short 6' wort coil in it. The pot is heated with a cheap water heater element at full bore, but controlled by the PID, reading the wort temp at the output of the wort coil. Its response is super fast due to the small eHERMS volume. Basically it's an eHERMS/eRIMS hybrid, or an indirect heated eRIMS.

 

[BeardedBrews]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/172346437675

Do you have space in your panel to just add a meter?

 

[gregkeller]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/172346437675

Do you have space in your panel to just add a meter?

I think I can find space for that. I guess since it's DC, i'd have to put in a transformer right? like one of the doorbell transformers?

 

[day_trippr]

Transformers = AC (doorbells usually 24VAC).
You could use the guts from a cheap 12VDC wall wart - I use 9VDC wart guts for small Arduino projects...

Cheers!

 

[gregkeller]

Transformers = AC (doorbells usually 24VAC).
You could use the guts from a cheap 12VDC wall wart - I use 9VDC wart guts for small Arduino projects...

Cheers!

cool, thanks.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't know if it matters but those linked ones only go down to 58F. Auber has a dual output meter for more money but it probably also supports recalibration of the probes too. https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=618

 

[gregkeller]

I don't know if it matters but those linked ones only go down to 58F. Auber has a dual output meter for more money but it probably also supports recalibration of the probes too. https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=618

Yeah I’ve seen that one and am wondering if that one would work for both mash temp (measured at the mash tun outlet as it run to the herms coil) and my chilled wort temp.

 

[BeardedBrews]

The Auber temp relay offers dramatically more functionality if you don't mind the price.

A neat use case would be automatically turning off the chiller water once the wort is lower than 75.

You could also wire in an alarm in case your mash tun temperature went over 170.

 

[swimIan]

The best "automated" 20 gallon homebrew mash system I've brewed with uses a small 1 gallon eHERMS pot with a short 6' wort coil in it. The pot is heated with a cheap water heater element at full bore, but controlled by the PID, reading the wort temp at the output of the wort coil. Its response is super fast due to the small eHERMS volume. Basically it's an eHERMS/eRIMS hybrid, or an indirect heated eRIMS.

I’d love to hear more about this eHERMS. Thx.

 

[augiedoggy]

I used a simple readout like this in one of my panels before switching to an arduino/brucontrol setup but I know they have them with alarms built in as well.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=172346437675

one of these days I'll add a brucontrol script to slow down or speed up my dc chiller pump via pwm based on temp output but I just havent had the time or motivation to bother with so much going on.

 

[Vale71]

A: I figure the easiest way to incorporate this into the panel is to just unplug my mash tun temp wire and plug it into another sensor that's in my chiller output.

This is exactly what I did. I have an automated RIMS setup and once I'm finished sparging the PID controller just sits there doing nothing. I figured it would be nice to have a real time display of temps at the chiller inlet and outlet and an extra PT1000 didn't cost that much.

 

[gregkeller]

So, I needed to order a mash tun pid anyway, so instead of getting a PID, I got one of those auber dual temperature displays. One display will show mash temp and the other is going to show wort output. I'm only using the mash temp probe to monitor things and make sure that during the mash the temp there and the temp in my HLT are the same, or if I'm step mashing, or raising to mash out temps, when I actually get there in the mash tun. So figured going without a PID would be fine, but having the ability to tie it into an alarm/buzzer would be nice.

 

[gregkeller]

If I really wanna go nuts, I could also use the same thing to show mash temp at two spots. My tun has a thermowell about 1/2 way up the kettle that sticks 3-4 inches into the mash. I could run one probe there and the other at the wort output to see if those two numbers jive. Probably only need to do that for the first few brews as I learn my system, but having 4 temp probes really doesn't complicate things much, adds minimal cost and allows me some flexability.

 

[golfindia]

I use a $20 rasbperry pi, and $1.50 DS18B20 sensor. Monitor chilling wort temp with my cell phone over LAN while watching TV on the couch.

 

[gregkeller]

I use a $20 rasbperry pi, and $1.50 DS18B20 sensor. Monitor chilling wort temp with my cell phone over LAN while watching TV on the couch.

I really need to learn about programming and stuff. I know absolutely nothing about that stuff. I feel like if I knew how to understand all the raspberry pi, arduino, etc stuff I could set up a panel that could handle everything from brew day to fermentation go controlling my serving keg. But I don’t know diddly squat. Gotta set some time aside to play with it eventually

 

[golfindia]

I don't know squat about programming either:

http://web.craftbeerpi.com/

https://dougedey.github.io/SB_Elsinore_Server/

I just put stuff on an SD card and solder a couple wires.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I added an Auber temp monitor to mine-upper right. It was the right size for me to squeek it in my panel after the fact.

I use it to monitor the temp out of my CFC

Because it's on cam locks, I can move it any were in the my system to monitor temps.

I also use that monitor to plug in a different probe to monitor mash temps (I use a RIMS and monitor the temp on the PID with a probe on the end of the RIMS tube). There's usually a 1-2 degree difference, but I don't soley rely on knowing that, just in case.

Now, there is/can be a difference between two different probes. I found with mine, there was maybe a 2 degree difference. Is calibrated it for the mash temp probe and called it good.