Adding Lactic Acid directly to achieve a sour effect?

[butterpants]

Can someone explain why it wouldn't be a good idea to cut out the middle man and just add lactic acid to your bottling bucket along with priming sugar to achieve a simple, yet sour beer?

I've got a stout I'd like to split and do a small batch of it with a tart/sour profile. Have plenty of 88% Lactic Acid liquid at the house. Any idea of a dilution/amount to start testing with? If not just pure lactic, how about granular acid blend?



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[aspiffymofo]

I've heard adding too much lactic acid will make your beer taste artificial. I have only ever done the sour mash method myself.

 

[hamaien]

Lactic acid bacteria make much more than just lactic acid during fermentation. You'd be missing out on all the esters and phenols that compliment the flavor.

The one exception IMO is fruit beer. A touch of lactic acid can really make the fruit pop.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Lactic acid bacteria make much more than just lactic acid during fermentation.

I agree with this. If you just add lactic acid you'll end up with a sour, but exceptionally 1 dimensional beer. If you're trying to get something like a slightly tart sour (like Guinness has been described before), adding a bit of lactic acid may get that result, but if you're going for something like a berliner weisse or anything else, you're going to be missing a ton of other flavor components.

What I have done in the past is to do a sour mash, or a full wort souring before the boil, and then added lactic acid if the sourness isn't quite where I needed it to be. Using commercial White Labs lactobacillus culture doesn't always get me the level of sourness I desire, so this is a quick solution. Since I did a lacto culture souring process, all of the flavor components are there so it still creates a complex and sour beer.

 

[butterpants]

ok, lets say all im looking for is a bump of flavor complexity and not a true sour.... just like exemplified above with Guinesses partial sour mashing then blending.... but I'm only going to add lactic acid.

How much to start with and at what. concentration?

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[CadillacAndy]

ok, lets say all im looking for is a bump of flavor complexity and not a true sour.... just like exemplified above with Guinesses partial sour mashing then blending.... but I'm only going to add lactic acid.

How much to start with and at what. concentration?

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The stuff at your LHBS is going to be 88% lactic acid most likely. I haven't seen anything else, but I'm sure it's out there, just check when you buy it.

I would figure out the amount by sitting down with an eye dropper and a measured amount of beer. I actually just did something like this today. I knew I was going to be bottling a sour beer for competition and it just wasn't as sour as I wanted it to be. I pulled off 6oz (175ml roughly) in to a glass and sat with an eye dropper and a bottle of lactic acid. I started with 6 drops, tasted, went to 12 drops, tasted, 24 drops, tasted, etc until I got it exactly where I wanted it, then figured out how many drops per bottle I would need.

For something like a Guinness, like we're talking about, I'd start with 6 drops per 12 oz and go from there. One of my most favorite sayings in brewing is "you can always add more, but you can't take it away" really applies to this situation.

 

[masonsjax]

Brewing Classic Styles compares adding lactic acid to microwaving a steak. Sure it works, but wouldn't you prefer to do it on a grill?

Sour mash is easy, why not give it a try?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Brewing Classic Styles compares adding lactic acid to microwaving a steak. Sure it works, but wouldn't you prefer to do it on a grill?

Sour mash is easy, why not give it a try?

I would agree with this, but if he's just looking to add a touch of lactic acid tang to a dry stout, sour mashing is overkill and way more work than is really necessary for this application.

In my case, I soured the full wort volume, then boiled but it just wasn't as sour as I wanted it to be. Since I went thru the sour mash process and regular sacch fermentation, all the other compounds and flavors we formed. I was just increasing the sourness to keep it inline with previous versions of the beer that have done exceptionally well for me.

 

[butterpants]

Excellent, I can run with that advice. Just like you Candy, I'm preparing a small amount for competition. Good beer, just needs a little push in the "goofy" direction.

Thanks guys for entertaining my discussion

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[user 165400]

this may be a real dumb question and i am sorry in advanced, but I know when using the bugs to sour things they recommend a separate set of plastics to use as the bug can be hard to get rid of even with good cleaning and sanitizing. Is this the same with lactic acid or doing a sour mash?

I ask because i am going to brew a cherry brown ale and was thinking of using lactic acid or souring the mash but do not have enough spare equipment if this is going to give the same issues that using lacto/brett/pedio would do.

 

[deepcdan99]

this may be a real dumb question and i am sorry in advanced, but I know when using the bugs to sour things they recommend a separate set of plastics to use as the bug can be hard to get rid of even with good cleaning and sanitizing. Is this the same with lactic acid or doing a sour mash?

I ask because i am going to brew a cherry brown ale and was thinking of using lactic acid or souring the mash but do not have enough spare equipment if this is going to give the same issues that using lacto/brett/pedio would do.

I just asked the same thing
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/lactic-acid-504165/

 

[dyqik]

Lactic acid won't affect your equipment at all. Lactic acid is routinely used to control mash pH.

Lactobacteria could be a risk if your plastic is scratched or hard to clean. This is really only a big deal in the fermenter and post boil equipment - usually your mash tun is only used for an hour or two, and no souring will happen in that time, even if there is some lactobacteria present. Grain is covered in lactobacteria anyway, which is why you can inoculate a sour mash with a handful of grain.

If you sour mash, after boiling, the wort is sterile, and won't affect any of the equipment used at that point.

 

[user 165400]

I just asked the same thing

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/lactic-acid-504165/

Thanks!

Lactic acid won't affect your equipment at all. Lactic acid is routinely used to control mash pH.

Lactobacteria could be a risk if your plastic is scratched or hard to clean. This is really only a big deal in the fermenter and post boil equipment - usually your mash tun is only used for an hour or two, and no souring will happen in that time, even if there is some lactobacteria present. Grain is covered in lactobacteria anyway, which is why you can inoculate a sour mash with a handful of grain.

If you sour mash, after boiling, the wort is sterile, and won't affect any of the equipment used at that point.

That's what I was worried about was using it in post boil stuff. Not as much with fermenters. I have glass and my plastic ones are easy to clean but am worried about it in hoses. I'm about at a point where I need new hoses so I was going to start retiring the older ones for sours. But not there yet and wasn't sure if the lactic acid could impact that stuff at all.