Acidifying sparge water? Should I?

[Jayhem]

I have a water report and have pretty decent well water for brewing from everything I'm reading in Bru'n Water spreadsheet.

Bru'n water seems to indicate that for my light beers (Cream ales, Blondes and wheats) that I should be adding a very small amount of Lactic Acid to both the mash and the sparge water to keep the mash at 5.4 ph and the sparge below 6.0. It only amounts to 0.4ml Lactic for mash and 1.5ml Lactic for sparge for 5.5 gallon batches. Doesn't seem like that little would hurt the flavor?

I have brewed 7 batches of cream/blonde/wheat beers and never had a problem with tannin extraction. What would you do? Use a small amount of acid to put the pH in the ideal range or not? I know what you are gonna say, "Get a pH meter!"

I'd rather not, I'm making great beer. But if it could be better with a small acid addition I'll do it.
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Here is my water report in (ppm)
Ca: 20
Mg: 8
Na: 6
K: 2
Fe: 2
HC03: 74
CO3: 1
SO4-S: 1
Cl: 8
NO3-N: 7
NO2: 3
F: 1

pH: 6.6

Total Hardness: 85
Alkalinity (CaCO3): 62
RA Effective Hardness: 69
Residual Alkalinity (RA): 42
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I do add gypsum and canning salt to bring my concentrations into ideal ranges for the styles I brew.

Would you acidify for pale grist, low OG beers? Should I just sparge less and add top off water to the kettle instead?

 

[ajdelange]

There are a couple of approaches you can take here. One is to zero out the proton deficit of the water WRT pH 5.4. This would take 1.7 mL 88% lactic acid for each 5 gal of the water treated. If you do this there will be no question as to whether sparge pH will ever rise above 6 and you have taken care of the water both for mashing and sparging. In doing mash pH calculations you can assume its alkalinity is 0. But you still have the proton deficit of the malt to consider. Unless you have enough colored malts to offset the proton deficit of the base malt additional acid will be needed. Calculating the additional amount is pretty simple if you know the properties of the malts but those are not generally available except as approximations. In such cases one can use the rule of thumb that 1% of the grist weight in sauermalz will lower the pH by about 0.1 and use, for pales beers, 1 - 2% sauermalz or the equivalent in lactic acid.

Get a pH meter.

I can now say this with more conviction than ever since it looks as if there may be one available at around 100 bucks which is stable enough for use in brewing. Still checking it out though. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/first-time-building-up-ro-water-apa-443205/index4.html

 

[Jayhem]

Thanks! Looks like a pH meter is on the list but for now I'm going to do a minimal Lactic acid addition to my pale grist beers to be on the safe side. I can't imagine 1.7-2.0 ml effecting the taste of 5 gallons of beer.

 

[ajdelange]

Guess I didn't answer that part - no, that much isn't going to effect flavor noticeably. Those of us that use sauermalz rather than the acid sometimes notice subtle flavor improvement but that comes from the malt the acid rides on - not the acid itself.

 

[Jayhem]

Guess I didn't answer that part - no, that much isn't going to effect flavor noticeably. Those of us that use sauermalz rather than the acid sometimes notice subtle flavor improvement but that comes from the malt the acid rides on - not the acid itself.

I have never heard of sauermalz but I assume it is essentially acidified malted barley?

 

[mabrungard]

Yes, sauermalz (aka: acid malt) is lactic acid infused pale malt. You can achieve the same neutralization of excess alkalinity with a lactic acid addition.

 

[ajdelange]

I have never heard of sauermalz but I assume it is essentially acidified malted barley?

Yes and making a bit is a fun project. Take some low colored (doesn't have to be pale) malt, put it in a pot or pan and add enough water to just cover it. The pot should be nearly full so that if you put a lid on or cover with Saran wrap there isn't much air. Put in a warm place (ideally 47 °C - modern ovens will actually serve for this purpose) and let it sit for a few days. Lactic acid bacteria on the husks will go to work to ferment some of the sugars producing lactic acid. After a few days this 'sour mash' will either stink (some spoilage organism got in there) in which case throw it out or smell a bit acidic in which case things went well. Dump the grains and liquid out onto a cookie sheet (with a rim!) and toast in the oven until dry. Taste. Pretty tasty actually.

Or you can by it at your LHBS. That stuff is usually made by spraying sauergut (lactic fermented wort) onto grain and drying.

 

[Jayhem]

Yes and making a bit is a fun project. Take some low colored (doesn't have to be pale) malt, put it in a pot or pan and add enough water to just cover it. The pot should be nearly full so that if you put a lid on or cover with Saran wrap there isn't much air. Put in a warm place (ideally 47 °C - modern ovens will actually serve for this purpose) and let it sit for a few days. Lactic acid bacteria on the husks will go to work to ferment some of the sugars producing lactic acid. After a few days this 'sour mash' will either stink (some spoilage organism got in there) in which case throw it out or smell a bit acidic in which case things went well. Dump the grains and liquid out onto a cookie sheet (with a rim!) and toast in the oven until dry. Taste. Pretty tasty actually.

Or you can by it at your LHBS. That stuff is usually made by spraying sauergut (lactic fermented wort) onto grain and drying.

So basically the 4oz bottle of 88% lactic acid I have will do the exact same thing, last for probably a dozen batches or more and much easier?

 

[ajdelange]

Using bottled lactic acid is certainly easier than making sauermalz but it's questionable as to whether it is easier than using sauermalz you buy. The ease really comes from the calculation simplicity - if you need to drop pH 0.1 point and have 67 pounds of grain add 0.67 pounds sauermalz. You are weighing out specialty grains anyway. I find that easier but you may find measuring out the acid easier.

 

[user 70770]

Sorry to bring this long dead thread back but the topic is very relevant to my question. So if you decide to use sauermalt in the mash, is acidifying the sparge water with lactic acid still necessary or is it a one or the other scenario? The pH of my water is around 8.2-8.3. The mineral composition is similar to the OP with relatively low levels of minerals.

 

[mabrungard]

pH is not really the driver with respect to sparging water. Alkalinity is more important. Alkalinity is a measure of the buffering system that exists in the water and high buffering (alkalinity) in the sparging can move the pH of the wort by consuming (neutralizing) the acidity in that wort.

Sparging water alkalinity should be lower than 50 ppm as CaCO3 and preferably lower than 25 ppm in order to decrease any pH effects on the wort. While you can just adjust the pH of the sparging water to a value near the wort pH, if the water originally had high alkalinity, it will still have significant alkalinity that can move the pH of the wort higher.

 

[user 70770]

pH is not really the driver with respect to sparging water. Alkalinity is more important. Alkalinity is a measure of the buffering system that exists in the water and high buffering (alkalinity) in the sparging can move the pH of the wort by consuming (neutralizing) the acidity in that wort.

Sparging water alkalinity should be lower than 50 ppm as CaCO3 and preferably lower than 25 ppm in order to decrease any pH effects on the wort. While you can just adjust the pH of the sparging water to a value near the wort pH, if the water originally had high alkalinity, it will still have significant alkalinity that can move the pH of the wort higher.

So basically if I just add calcium chloride and/or gypsum to my sparge water to bring down the alkalinity below 25, no acid is needed?

 

[ajdelange]

Sorry to bring this long dead thread back but the topic is very relevant to my question. So if you decide to use sauermalt in the mash, is acidifying the sparge water with lactic acid still necessary or is it a one or the other scenario? .

Whether your sparge water needs to be acidified or not depends on alkalinity.

The mineral composition is similar to the OP with relatively low levels of minerals

Sparging water alkalinity should be lower than 50 ppm as CaCO3 and preferably lower than 25 ppm in order to decrease any pH effects on the wort.

Set it to 0 by acidifying to the desired wort pH.

While you can just adjust the pH of the sparging water to a value near the wort pH, if the water originally had high alkalinity, it will still have significant alkalinity that can move the pH of the wort higher.

No, it won't. You are confusing alkalinity WRT to titration endpoint and alkalinity WRT target pH. The latter is 0. The former will be about 10% of the original water's alkakinity and it would indeed require potons to go to the endpoint pH. But we aren't going to the endpoint pH. We aren't going anywhere. Water at pHz is mixed with mash at pHz. No ∆pH, no proton transfer, no alkalinity.