accidentally added extra malt to IPA what do i do?

[maddawg4]

I bought the Drakes IPA clone. The kit came with a bag of Briess carmel malt 40L in addition to the the crystal 40L and the crystal 15L. The Carmel is not part of the recipe yet i made the mistake of putting it in my beer. So now it will have a lot of extra malt in it. Do you have a suggestion on what i should do about this? Do i pitch more yeast to offset all the extra sugars? (sorry i am very new to homebrewing so apologies if i make no sense) What should i do to try to balance it out to get it more like the Original Drakes recipe? I dont like my beers too sweet at all. any help would be appreciated.

here is a link to the recipe
http://brewingreport.com/beer_recipes/more-beers-drakes-ipa-2/

EDIT: HERE IS THE CORRECT RECIPE NOT THE ONE ABOVE

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/drakes-ipa-clone

 

[porterpounder]

caramel 40L and crystal 40L are the same thing. Maybe from different maltsters, but the terms caramel and crystal are interchangeable. If it came with the kit, it belongs in the beer. Don't worry about it. If your original gravity ended up higher, then adjust hops and yeast accordingly.

 

[maddawg4]

caramel 40L and crystal 40L are the same thing. Maybe from different maltsters, but the terms caramel and crystal are interchangeable. If it came with the kit, it belongs in the beer. Don't worry about it. If your original gravity ended up higher, then adjust hops and yeast accordingly.

Yeah i read they are the same thing but i guess my question is will the extra 40L make a big difference in the beer recipe and what do i need to do exactly to correct the problem? The recipe says it shouldnt have come with the extra 40L bag. I am almost positive it was a mistake it was included. Thanks for your response

 

[Enemygod]

I think for anybody to answer that question with any accuracy they would need to see the recipe...or at least the amount of extra 40L you added.

 

[porterpounder]

"Is it really extra?" is my question. If the beer is made then it will be more malty and darker than intended, but with a healthy yeast pitch and good fermentation control it won't be "sweet". Looking at that recipe, you're going to need a lot more hops in the last part of the boil to hit any sort of IPA hop character. We're talking another 3-4 oz. minimum somewhere between the last 0-10 mins of the boil. The only thing you can do about the wort already made as far as the malt issue goes is to blend with a much lighter batch later.

 

[dstockwell]

At worse the beer will be more sweet, (higher F.G.) adding more yeast won't change that.

 

[bleme]

So it came with 1.25 pounds of Crystal 15L, 1lb of Crystal 40L and 1lb of Caramel 40L?

If so, adding extra yeast won't help anything. The extra sugars from Caramel 40L aren't fermentable with regular yeast. You could add some extra hops to balance it out, but I think you are better off just letting it go.

 

[maddawg4]

"Is it really extra?" is my question. If the beer is made then it will be more malty and darker than intended, but with a healthy yeast pitch and good fermentation control it won't be "sweet". Looking at that recipe, you're going to need a lot more hops in the last part of the boil to hit any sort of IPA hop character. We're talking another 3-4 oz. minimum somewhere between the last 0-10 mins of the boil. The only thing you can do about the wort already made as far as the malt issue goes is to blend with a much lighter batch later.

Thanks for your response. I noticed that the recipe i posted is a little different than mine. Mine does come with a lot more hops than this recipe shows. So i think i will be ok in that department. So i guess adding more yeast wont really do much. Perhaps i should let it ferment longer than my usual of 14 days

The hops are actually as follows

1.0 oz Columbus (US) 0 min First Wort Pellet 15.0%
0.5 oz Magnum (US) 0 min First Wort Pellet 13.0%
1.0 oz Cascade (US) 70 min Boil Pellet 7.0%
1.0 oz Cascade (US) 55 min Boil Pellet 7.0%
1.0 oz Cascade (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 7.0%
1.0 oz Columbus (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 15.0%

 

[maddawg4]

So it came with 1.25 pounds of Crystal 15L, 1lb of Crystal 40L and 1lb of Caramel 40L?

If so, adding extra yeast won't help anything. The extra sugars from Caramel 40L aren't fermentable with regular yeast. You could add some extra hops to balance it out, but I think you are better off just letting it go.

Yes exactly. I just dont like sweet beers and the last batch i made of a belgian Triple came out terrible. It was way too sweet. This is only my 3rd batch of beer i made and a 4th fermenting now too. My first batch that was a blonde ale was great. The triple was awful

 

[IslandLizard]

I think some of you guys need to read a little closer. The OP stated clearly the bag of 40L Briess "Carmel" malt that was (mistakenly) included is not part of the recipe. But he'd added it to the other grains, by mistake too.

Yep, it will be a bit sweeter, darker, and will finish at a bit higher gravity. It will still be beer, and likely good. I'd drink it.

Now if they really made that mistake, you could complain to the company you bought it from and they may send you a replacement... that would be best. 2 beers for the price of one. However...

...just re-reading this myself, it looks like you didn't buy it as a kit, and ordered the ingredients loose. Chances are you're on your own, and didn't take advantage of saving the extra Caramel Malt they sent you as a bonus.

That recipe as it is posted is pretty sucky if you ask me, and as said before by @porterpounder, where are the finishing hops?

Read up on whirlpool and hop stands for brewing IPAs the modern way.

 

[Redtab78]

I say just let it go the way your recipe is written..... but, if its THAT much of a concern, add an additional .5 oz of dry hops, but again, I don't think you should worry one bit.....in the end you will have a beer, and it will be good, and you will rejoice!

 

[maddawg4]

I think some of you guys need to read a little closer. The OP stated clearly the bag of 40L Briess "Carmel" malt that was (mistakenly) included is not part of the recipe. But he'd added it to the other grains, by mistake too.

Yep, it will be a bit sweeter, and will finish at a bit higher gravity. It will still be beer, and likely good. I'd drink it.

Now you could complain to the company you bought it from and they may send you a replacement... that would be best. 2 beers for the price of one.

I say just let it go the way your recipe is written..... but, if its THAT much of a concern, add an additional .5 oz of dry hops, but again, I don't think you should worry one bit.....in the end you will have a beer, and it will be good, and you will rejoice!

I agree it will be beer and that works for me. The only reason I worry about it is because i brew it with my dad and he gets real wound up if it is too sweet. Trying to get it right this time

 

[bleme]

I plugged the recipe into Brewtoad both ways and it only makes 1 point difference in final gravity (1.010 vs 1.009 sweetness) and 4 points difference in IBU's (114 vs 118 bitterness). That bitterness is off the charts high so I might have entered something wrong or Brewtoad could be off. IBU's should be between 50 and 70.

 

[IslandLizard]

I agree it will be beer and that works for me. The only reason I worry about it is because i brew it with my dad and he gets real wound up if it is too sweet. Trying to get it right this time

At this point there's not much you can do to make the beer drier. Even without the mistaken extra pound of Crystal 40L it would be pretty sweet already:

1. Extract beers tend to be sweeter than all-grain, especially when you boil the malt extract for an hour.

It would be better to add 1/3 to 1/2 of the malt extract at the beginning of the boil, and the balance at flameout. Less caramelization that way from boiling.

2. If I understand it right, there's 2.25# of crystal malts in that recipe (1.25# C15 + 1# C40). That's about double of the maximum I'd put in an IPA. And without the erroneously added extra pound.

If you'd mash the C15 in a pot (you'd also need to add a pound of base malt for that) instead of steeping it, you may get a slightly more fermentable/drier beer. It would be a partial mash that way. Then steep a little (4-6 oz) of darker crystal malt (C80-C120) for the amber color. Or better yet, replace that darker crystal with 1/2 an ounce to 1 ounce of (dehusked) Carafa III Special. That Carafa is extremely potent!

For your next brew:
Find a good IPA recipe here on HBT, in the recipe section. You'll know it will be good judging by the feedback. The more recent the recipe, the more chance there is it uses modern brewing techniques, such as 1/2 hour whirlpool hops (or a hop stand) at reduced temps (170F), etc.

 

[maddawg4]

At this point there's not much you can do to make the beer drier. Even without the mistaken extra pound of Crystal 40L it would be pretty sweet already:

1. Extract beers tend to be sweeter than all-grain, especially when you boil the malt extract for an hour.

It would be better to add 1/3 to 1/2 of the malt extract at the beginning of the boil, and the balance at flameout. Less caramelization that way from boiling.

2. If I understand it right, there's 2.25# of crystal malts in that recipe (1.25# C15 + 1# C40). That's about double of the maximum I'd put in an IPA. And without the erroneously added extra pound.

If you'd mash the C15 in a pot (you'd also need to add a pound of base malt for that) instead of steeping it, you may get a slightly more fermentable/drier beer. It would be a partial mash that way. Then steep a little (4-6 oz) of darker crystal malt (C80-C120) for the amber color. Or better yet, replace that darker crystal with 1/2 an ounce to 1 ounce of (dehusked) Carafa III Special.

For your next brew:
Find a good IPA recipe here on HBT, in the recipe section. You'll know it will be good judging by the feedback. The more recent the recipe, the more chance there is it uses modern brewing techniques, such as 1/2 hour whirlpool hops (or a hop stand) at reduced temps (170F), etc.

here is the more accurate recipe the first one was wrong and yes it was a kit, they somehow put an extra bag in the kit

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/drakes-ipa-clone

 

[IslandLizard]

here is the more accurate recipe the first one was wrong and yes it was a kit, they somehow put an extra bag in the kit

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/drakes-ipa-clone

That recipe is upside down in regard to the hop additions. In brewing, any additions are typically timed backwards from the flameout (flameout = 0 minutes!). So your bittering hop would be 60 minutes, not 0 (or as it's listed at "1 min", which is just total BS). The way it is now is confusing, and error prone, unless you rewrite it correctly.

The "55 minute Cascade" addition should be listed as a 15' addition, meaning 15 minutes before flameout.

The "70 minute Cascade" addition should be listed as a 0' addition, meaning at flameout.

Well you could complain about it if they added it wrongly to your kit. What could you lose? You've got "no," they could say "yes, sure," to keep you a happy customer.

 

[kristiismean]

Island lizard nailed it.

before your next brew, post it up and have us look at it, we'll state hey, do this, or just dump the last oz at flameout, etc...

but, as all have said, it will be beer.

 

[maddawg4]

That recipe is upside down in regard to the hop additions. In brewing, any additions are typically timed backwards from the flameout (flameout = 0 minutes!). So your bittering hop would be 60 minutes, not 0 (or as it's listed at "1 min", which is just total BS). The way it is now is confusing, and error prone, unless you rewrite it correctly.

The "55 minute Cascade" addition should be listed as a 15' addition, meaning 15 minutes before flameout.

The "70 minute Cascade" addition should be listed as a 0' addition, meaning at flameout.

Well you could complain about it if they added it wrongly to your kit. What could you lose? You've got "no," they could say "yes, sure," to keep you a happy customer.

**** while this is not exactly the same instructions i got from more beer (it is an exact replica) but i did follow it backwards. I put the hops in at the beginning. I thought it meant put the cascade in and boil for 70 the next for 55 and the other for 1 minute (I think my recipe said 5 mins) Anyways dammit i did it backwards. Morebeer always does their instructions backwards like this so you saying. 70 minutes actually means flameout and the 55 means 15 minutes before. grrrr. thanks for your help

 

[IslandLizard]

**** while this is not exactly the same instructions i got from more beer (it is an exact replica) but i did follow it backwards. I put the hops in at the beginning. I thought it meant put the cascade in and boil for 70 the next for 55 and the other for 1 minute (I think my recipe said 5 mins) Anyways dammit i did it backwards. Morebeer always does their instructions backwards like this so you saying. 70 minutes actually means flameout and the 55 means 15 minutes before. grrrr. thanks for your help

Brewtoad and Brewgr list the hopping instructions for this recipe backward. I only found MoreBeer's general brewing instructions, but they do it right, 10, 5, or 1 minute hops are added at those respective minutes left in the boil.

The giveaway is that bittering hops (such as Magnum, Warrior, Columbus, etc.) are always added for the long time boil (60-90 minutes). Then NOTHING until 20 minutes or less before flameout (FO). In modern IPA recipes all those late hops are added very late, and some extremely late. Usually not starting with those additions until 10 or 5 minutes (before FO), or not until FO, or even later, after the wort has cooled down to 170-180F, or a combination of those.

 

[maddawg4]

Brewtoad and Brewgr list the hopping instructions for this recipe backward. I only found MoreBeer's general brewing instructions, but they do it right, 10, 5, or 1 minute hops are added at those respective minutes left in the boil.

The giveaway is that bittering hops (such as Magnum, Warrior, Columbus, etc.) are always added for the long time boil (60-90 minutes). Then NOTHING until 20 minutes or less before flameout (FO). In modern IPA recipes all those late hops are added very late, and some extremely late. Usually not starting with those additions until 10 or 5 minutes (before FO), or not until FO, or even later, after the wort has cooled down to 170-180F, or a combination of those.

I think you are right i think morebeer specifically states ***left in boil. So i probably did do it right. Ill check when i get home. So when should i add the dry hops taking into account my extra malt mistake?

 

[IslandLizard]

When I outgrew kits (took me exactly one) I started brewing from recipes found in books and later, on the innuhnet. That's where I came across too many that were all over the place, incorrect, inconsistent with what was reported elsewhere, or made no sense whatsoever. Sad to say, Brewtoad was a total hodgepodge, and hasn't gotten much better. Then I found HomeBrewTalk...

Admittedly, there are a few duds on here too. But many have positive feedback and more than a few have built a solid track record ironing out any wrinkles over time and even given alternative takes. Look at those.

I've never had Drake's IPA or any other beers by them, but 2.25# of crystal sounds high at least by today's drier IPA standards. I've seen plenty of good reviews of Drake's, so don't let that deter you, it may work just right for that beer. I do like the lower lovibond Crystal/Caramel malts in IPAs. Many good old IPAs are a bit sweet in their way and delicious!

Maybe someone could post a more coherent version?

 

[IslandLizard]

I think you are right i think morebeer specifically states ***left in boil. So i probably did do it right. Ill check when i get home. So when should i add the dry hops taking into account my extra malt mistake?

I hope you did!

Add dry hops when fermentation has slowed down significantly, but hasn't quite stopped yet. If your airlock clearly shows bubbles, wait until you see maybe 1 a minute or less. Do not rack your beer to some secondary, even if instructions tell you. Ignore them for that part. Add your dry hops directly to the fermentor it's in now. Do it quickly and put the lid or stopper/airlock back on. If a lot of hops remain floating on the top give the fermentor a light swirl. Or a slow stir with your long brewing spoon, don't whip it! Use the back end if it's in a carboy. Repeat a few hours later, if needed. Let them be for 5-7 days at room temps (68-72F), neither is critical. Then bottle.

 

[bleme]

I plugged the recipe into Brewtoad both ways and it only makes 1 point difference in final gravity (1.010 vs 1.009 sweetness) and 4 points difference in IBU's (114 vs 118 bitterness). That bitterness is off the charts high so I might have entered something wrong or Brewtoad could be off. IBU's should be between 50 and 70.

If I change the Cascade to 15 minutes left in boil and flameout additions, BrewToad drops the IBU's down to 68, which is much more reasonable.

 

[maddawg4]

I hope you did!

Add dry hops when fermentation has slowed down significantly, but hasn't quite stopped yet. If your airlock clearly shows bubbles, wait until you see maybe 1 a minute or less. Do not rack your beer to some secondary, even if instructions tell you. Ignore them for that part. Add your dry hops directly to the fermentor it's in now. Do it quickly and put the lid or stopper/airlock back on. If a lot of hops remain floating on the top give the fermentor a light swirl. Or a slow stir with your long brewing spoon, don't whip it! Use the back end if it's in a carboy. Repeat a few hours later, if needed. Let them be for 5-7 days at room temps (68-72F), neither is critical. Then bottle.

Is it really that bad to rack your beer? Does racking even clear it that much? I liked putting it into a secondary cause i thought it cleared the beer up but most people say don't do it due to introducing bacteria or contaminating the beer

 

[bleme]

Is it really that bad to rack your beer? Does racking even clear it that much? I liked putting it into a secondary cause i thought it cleared the beer up but most people say don't do it due to introducing bacteria or contaminating the beer

The practice came over from commercial brewers who have to use bright tanks. Homebrew scale doesn't put our yeast under the kind of pressure that commercial tanks have though, so our yeast takes weeks longer to start autolysis.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is it really that bad to rack your beer? Does racking even clear it that much? I liked putting it into a secondary cause i thought it cleared the beer up but most people say don't do it due to introducing bacteria or contaminating the beer

If your sanitation is good, there's little worry about infecting your beer when racking. Oxidation is the real enemy in that process.

Unless you can rack (virtually) oxygen free, using specific techniques, it will undoubtedly oxidize your beer. This is an even bigger concern for IPAs, as oxidation will kill hop aromas and flavors quickly, leaving a dull, uninspiring, or even undrinkable beer behind. Leaving only a small headspace in a secondary helps prevent another source of oxidation and possible infection. Some brewers flush the (small) headspace effectively with CO2.

 

[maddawg4]

One last question. This is supposed to be a 7% IPA. I used only one packet of white labs yeast. Is one enough for an IPA? And I didn't do a yeast starter. Is this OK or should I have used two yeast packets. Today is day 6 in the fermenter

 

[kristiismean]

You should be just fine. A starter is preferred, but you should be fine.