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Yes it's correct. Most likely either your thermoprobe or PID is broken
A couple questions about mypin t4 and pt 100 probe
- Thread starter evan5159
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Yes it's correct. Most likely either your thermoprobe or PID is broken
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evan5159
Well-Known Member
Stainless Steel PT100 RTD Thermistor Sensor Probe (Temperature Rang: -20~420°C)
http://amzn.com/B008YP1D04
This is my temp probe
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http://amzn.com/B008YP1D04
This is my temp probe
Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Im sorry but this is incorrect as Ive stated before... I just pulled my panel apart and verified that the way I suggested is in fact how mine are working...
its likely the rtd or pid got damaged somehow possible from wiring it up wrong.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I have the same...only mine were $6 from ebay... the blue should have gone to the 7 in this case and the reds to 8 and 9 and 7 and 10 should be jumpers... that how mine is wired. I am 100% sure
two of my rtd have red,yellow and blue wires my other rtd has two blue and one red... that doesnt matter what matters is the single different color wire goes to 7 and 10 I had to guess and choose the red as the single wire and got lucky with my first two rtds.
I have not tried mine without the jumper but if Brumateur says it works I believe him.
inside the panel i used phone wire( i had it around and its good)
the BLACK to 7 and GREEN to 10(Phone Wire)are running to my my quickconnect and soldered to the 2 REDS on probe
The RED (phone wire) is soldered at quick connect to the single BLUE
The BLUE jumper wire is clearly jumped from 8 to 9
My wiring clearly matches the MYPIN paperwork as well as the side diagram sticker on the side of the MYPIN
As you can you see my wiring is neat and my setup safe with proper gauge wiring , internal breaker and contactors
I would never would my advice be the cause of someone damaging a device, however here is some pics showing that my wiring works. It temperture is about .6 degree of the pen digital temp 50 degrees at that cold temp and is about .3 at 150 degrees
I do not what would cause your pin to fry.
I have heard of miswired from factory MYPINS ans well as pt100
based on amazon comments for what it is worth
evan you stated you fred the SSR to begin with. possibly it was already damage then.
the BLACK to 7 and GREEN to 10(Phone Wire)are running to my my quickconnect and soldered to the 2 REDS on probe
The RED (phone wire) is soldered at quick connect to the single BLUE
The BLUE jumper wire is clearly jumped from 8 to 9
My wiring clearly matches the MYPIN paperwork as well as the side diagram sticker on the side of the MYPIN
As you can you see my wiring is neat and my setup safe with proper gauge wiring , internal breaker and contactors
I would never would my advice be the cause of someone damaging a device, however here is some pics showing that my wiring works. It temperture is about .6 degree of the pen digital temp 50 degrees at that cold temp and is about .3 at 150 degrees
I do not what would cause your pin to fry.
I have heard of miswired from factory MYPINS ans well as pt100
based on amazon comments for what it is worth
evan you stated you fred the SSR to begin with. possibly it was already damage then.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I dont know whats different in your setup that makes it work but I am sure thats not how mines woired I pulled it apart this morning and did the same thing you did... my blue wire goes to 7 and reds are both on 8=9 with no jumper... I did install my second Td4 today and wired it the way Brumateur suggested with no jumper at all and it works fine so....
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
if you have already gone through two pids and sensors I think something else is wrong...
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evan5159
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I went through because#1 I am a bricklayer not a electronic engineer and this is my first attempt at anything of this nature. # 2 the first one was bad advice all the way. Some ******* posted a vid on YouTube and I listened. No offense to pwm you were just trying to help amend I appreciate your input.
This will make you laugh. My daughter gets home from school today and asked me why I was 'playing' in the garage this morning. I proceed to generalize what I was doing, when her eyes get big. Apparently she was using my torch(teenager) for some project and said the flame touched the steel braided wire cover. So after scolding her for not being careful, I inspected the steel braid and she burnt the **** out of it. There is my problem I'm saying! She won't be making soda until I can make beer
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This will make you laugh. My daughter gets home from school today and asked me why I was 'playing' in the garage this morning. I proceed to generalize what I was doing, when her eyes get big. Apparently she was using my torch(teenager) for some project and said the flame touched the steel braided wire cover. So after scolding her for not being careful, I inspected the steel braid and she burnt the **** out of it. There is my problem I'm saying! She won't be making soda until I can make beer
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Do you mind to share a link to that video?
augiedoggy
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I here you... I actually took masonry and building trades in school.... ended up getting a job that led to a field in electronics after high school.
This is really confusing. Basically reading through the thread the only conclusions I came to based on the 2 main contributors (augio and pwm) was:
augio has not wired his PID as per any of the MYPIN docs available on the internet (not meaning to offend you
)
Either way of wiring should get it reading the temperature, but augio's way would seem to not compensate for the wire resistance. The 3-wire RTD (for this example 1 red / 2 blue wires) work by measuring the resistance through the red/blue wires (which is the resistance of: one length of wire + RTD element + one more length of wire) and subtracting the resistance of 2 lengths of wire (the resistance measured from 1 blue to the other blue), which leaves the resistance of only the RTD element independant of any effect from the wires - this assumes all 3 wires are of equal length/resistance.
Wiring it audio way (or not even connecting 10) basically makes the controller think that the wire resistance is 0 and thus the controller will not compensate for the wire resistance - but 3 wire RTDs seem to only really be needed for cable lengths over 100m so all the above is not really an issue for our homebrew scale stuff anyway
The fact that your daughter burnt your sensor cable I would expect that to be you issue - basically the PID thinks the RTD is telling it the resistance is 0 which it then equates to -401°C
Don't know why the thing smoked and the breaker triped when conneected correctly though - maybe it was just a coincidence?
augio has not wired his PID as per any of the MYPIN docs available on the internet (not meaning to offend you
)Either way of wiring should get it reading the temperature, but augio's way would seem to not compensate for the wire resistance. The 3-wire RTD (for this example 1 red / 2 blue wires) work by measuring the resistance through the red/blue wires (which is the resistance of: one length of wire + RTD element + one more length of wire) and subtracting the resistance of 2 lengths of wire (the resistance measured from 1 blue to the other blue), which leaves the resistance of only the RTD element independant of any effect from the wires - this assumes all 3 wires are of equal length/resistance.
Wiring it audio way (or not even connecting 10) basically makes the controller think that the wire resistance is 0 and thus the controller will not compensate for the wire resistance - but 3 wire RTDs seem to only really be needed for cable lengths over 100m so all the above is not really an issue for our homebrew scale stuff anyway
The fact that your daughter burnt your sensor cable I would expect that to be you issue - basically the PID thinks the RTD is telling it the resistance is 0 which it then equates to -401°C
Don't know why the thing smoked and the breaker triped when conneected correctly though - maybe it was just a coincidence?
Yeah, basically short story - it shouldn't matter if you follow augio or pwm's advice, both should work.
My advice would be get a cheap multimeter, and measure the resistance between each pair of wires (red -blue1, red- blue2, blue1-blue2) - the resistance between the 2 unlike colours should be about 110 ohms.
By the way, if you are going electric you'll likely need the multimeter to check out your wiring anyway so may as well get one now
Can you take a photo of the back of your PID and how it is wired now?
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I got advice from here on how to wire it up .... I used the search function and found a thread explaining it.... bremauster gave the same wiring advice and wired his up the same way as me did he not? After looking through my paperwork I do see what you mean now though.
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evan5159
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I have spent the free time of my past six months working and reading on this and have a firm grasp of how the system works. The damaged pt 100 was throwing me off which was why I asked for help
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augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Honestly I had three different types of pics and a forth brand of timer... the engrish was soon bad on most of the documentation I searched Online for most of my wiring schematics to double check them... I had the my pins sensors wired the other way according to the manual (so I though) and they did not read correctly and that's when I found a thread here explaining how to wire them the way I did. Maybe the jumper is required the other way? As I found out today you don't need any jumper if you put the single colored wire on 7 and the other two on 8 and 9 I guess its the complete opposite of what pwm did with reversed wires but as stated it doesn't matter.
Sorry, forgot that that was your photo already
Still can't understand the smoke when wired "correctly"? Nothing with the sensor side should draw enogh current to pop a breaker - unless you coincidently also had a stray wire leak to ground, that was then moved when you rewired it.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Lol... I actually have extra sensors and pids I could have just brought to figure it out.
I went through quite a bit of changes after learning the hard way why one way or device was better than another....
Someone should really make a pid and sensor comparison thread as a sticky... I think there would be more people purchasing the td4 my pin over the auger if there was a real side by side review of the features and functionality... and I bought a k type sensor before I learned rtd was the way to go.
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Pwm's connection is incorrect because it disable wire resistance compensation. But as it was mentioned on short cable. it doesn't create noticeable differnce. Terminal 10 is used for 4 wire connection. Jumper between 7 and 10 when used with 3 wire probe also breakes wire resisttivity compensation. But again with short probe cable it doesn't really matter.
So all the Mypin documentation is wrong? i'm not being snide there, I just want to get you thoughts as I would not be shocked if it was to be the case. What is the basis of the claim, since pwm has it wired and working his way?
As per the documentation the way you have wired it does not enable the compensation, the diagram clearly shows the twon wires attached to the same side of the RTD going to 7 & 10.
I still have my K-type onm a Sestos, no issues with it... I'm moving over to an Arduino and a DS18B20 soon though
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Pt-100 is thermoresistor , K is thermocouple and it's completely different beast. Thermocouple generate voltage on temperature difference. So it works good when measures.many hundreds degree. In our case temperature difference between thermocuple's end and ambient is around one hundred degree only. Voltage generated by thermocouple is low and to measure it precisely you need expensive equipment.
can you the simply explain the manual diagram as well as the sticker affixed to the side of MYPIN. I know its Chinese badly translated to English, because my pid is running spot on using the diagram and sticker only and intermediate wiring skills as my pics prove
My rough take on them all is:
Auber:
High price
°C or F
Manual mode (check model)
Good documentation
MyPin:
Low price
°C or F (I stand corrected
)Manual mode (check model)
Crap documentation
Sestos:
Low price
°C only
Manual mode
Sketchy documentation
Potential issue with low control period values
REX
DO NOT BUY especially off ebay as you have a 75% chance of not getting what you think your getting
Since the cable on the sensors are only 3m or so I doubt you would see a difference in either way of wiring. But for now I think you wiring is "correct" for the wire compensation, until proven otherwise
the k type came in the setup. I believe you are right, It was all over the place
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
yup I have a rex too and replaced it yesterday with another TD4 series... theres basically the "TA" series is the same as the "TD" series except the TD series has manual mode and the last digit like the "4" represents form factor...(1/16 Din) I also have a TA7 and its much larger. the "SNR" is what one wants for ssr and relay control capabilities...
My rex worked well with the pt-100 to measure but it was all celcius and I never attempted to control an ssr with it.
My rex worked well with the pt-100 to measure but it was all celcius and I never attempted to control an ssr with it.
I have a TC on a PID for wort and it measures fine and is stable - most issues I have seen are from how the sensor is mounted not what type it is. The biggest hassle with TC I see is that yu can't just simply exstend the cable or use standard plugs.
Out of the box, ALL temperature sensors are inaccurate. If the device hasn't had a multi-point calibration then your actaul values are meaningless in any case, be it a thermocouple, NTC thermistor or PT100. In the absence of proper calibration, what matters is repeatability and the difference in numbers you are getting - if you find a batch is too fruity/estery, after controlling fermentation temps, then you know you just need a lower number than the one you had; the actual number itself doesn't matter.
I recently brought my pen type thermometer and PID with PT100 into work and tested them with our thermowell and calibrated pt100. At room temperature, the pen was under by 3 degC and the PID was with 0.5 degC but at 100 degC the pen was within 1 degC and the PID was out by over 8 degC.
While this may seem alot, the 4 wire pt100 probes we use for research in work cost a lot more than these normal homebrew sensors and the DAQ system cost the same as a family car and we are still easily calibrating by +- 2 degC on a regular basis.
I recently brought my pen type thermometer and PID with PT100 into work and tested them with our thermowell and calibrated pt100. At room temperature, the pen was under by 3 degC and the PID was with 0.5 degC but at 100 degC the pen was within 1 degC and the PID was out by over 8 degC.
While this may seem alot, the 4 wire pt100 probes we use for research in work cost a lot more than these normal homebrew sensors and the DAQ system cost the same as a family car and we are still easily calibrating by +- 2 degC on a regular basis.
Not trying to derail this to far but, what do you use to calibrate the lab sensor?
