On demand water heaters are the way to go! We use some at work that max out at 185degF. One of those babies could be an instant never ending HLT.
If you have access to steam, you should be able to Frankenstein a 3-7bbl brewery together fairly cheep. Spend your money on fermenters though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GROEN-150-G...337?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367a9fb99
Forget 3 phase. No need to mess with that if you dont have to. Everything is more expensive. Stick to single phase. I used 3 4500w elements in my boil kettles. I ran a 60a circuit to each kettle. I too used 55 gallon drums. I easily boiled 50 gallon batches. You just need to skim the hot break and watch the boil closely. I had two boil kettles and I was able to get a finished batch of 75 gallons after all transfers.
With your 3 4500w elements do you need to put a potentiometer on it to control the boil? Or just ON/OFF switch.
Also I see you are boiling 50 Gallons. Do you use a foaming additive? I always use a product like Fermcap-S in my 10 gallon systems.
What do you use for a MLT if you have 2 boil kettles? Since I have 3 barrel fermenters coming I figured a 1.5 barrel 55 gallon system run 2 batches in one day. Maybe I should configure the MLT to handle more and make 2 boil kettles.
Three phase SSRs are out of this world expensive. But you can try China and wait 2 months - No? (And then wait on the quality of the produce and its reliability?)Any reason for not using two three phase SSRs?
And, I assume you don't plan to do step mashes since you're not including a MLT heat source.
Three phase SSRs are out of this world expensive. But you can try China and wait 2 months - No? (And then wait on the quality of the produce and its reliability?)
RIMS becomes fairly expensive and complicated to control. There are too many variables to be able to control accurate and repeatable results. Also, IMHO, you do not want to ever directly heat the MLT.
A 40A three phase SSR is around $150. Not unreasonable.
Commercial breweries use steam-jacketed mash tuns as the norm. Also, a RIMS/HERMS is dead simple to control with a PID and a temperature probe near the exit.
Good luck with your build.
I think that is a good plan. All you would need to do to run on 240V - 3 phase power is to install 3 elements in eack kettle. I'll have to do some digging for 480V - 3 phase power but I think you would also need 3 elements (in a "Y" configuration) in each kettle.P-J; the 3 phase 18000 watt elements are like 3 feet long. So they are out.
I'm leaning towards "these mounts" from Brewers Hardware . com They will be easily removed for cleaning. Allowing me to use 220 v 4500 watt elements and these adapters look more water tight than the units I have already.
I think that is a good plan. All you would need to do to run on 240V - 3 phase power is to install 3 elements in eack kettle. I'll have to do some digging for 480V - 3 phase power but I think you would also need 3 elements (in a "Y" configuration) in each kettle.
If you plan on either setup, I'd be glad to mod the diagran for you.
P-J
I did the "digging" and it will not work out using 240V elements on 480V 3 phase power unless you use a total of 6 elements per kettle. 240V 3 phase is A-ok....
I'll have to do some digging for 480V - 3 phase power but I think you would also need 3 elements (in a "Y" configuration) in each kettle.
...
208 vs 220 vs 240 is really all the same thing. It all depends on how the power is delivered to your facility. It starts with how the power company configures the transformers with a 'Delta' or 'Y' feed. The elements are rated for 240V and will work just fine.Here is where I personally am a little fuzzy. What's the difference between 220v Single phase vs 240v 3 phase. Can I use regular 220v HWH elements?
P-J your input has already been a lot of help. I've looked at your wire schematics in several treads to get ideas for what I want to do.
It really does not matter. It can be done that way as well. However, I show the PID being powered with 120V AC. This saves a little bit on switches as a double pole switch in not requires for 120V AC. With 240V PID power, it should be powered through a double pole switch so that the PID is isolated when off.P-J;
The instruction sheet for SYL-2352 PID (2011.02 P7/8) shows an example of a 240VAC heating application. They have L1 on [9] and L2 on [10]
On schematics you have done I see you put L1 on [10] and Neutral on [9]
What is the difference?
This is very doable. Just give a little time to put together another diagram set for you.
What is your plan for the boil kettle?
Thanks P-J
I'm getting the outline for the Mash Tun HERMS and the Boil Kettle. But they will all be independently controlled. That way if we change the system configuration we won't have controls tied together. I want to keep it modular.
I think right now I am wanting to do 3 220v single phase 4500 watt heating elements. Just seems simple, unless you think we have an advantage to putting 3 phase to it.
If you are intending to use 3 elements in any vessel, 3 phase will be less expensive both in the build and in the cost of power to run it.
Regarding the 3 phase you might have available. Is there any way tjhat you can determine what is actually available. If your power is 480V 3 phase the question becomes is that 480 power or 240/480 power or is it 277/480 power. I'm trying to determine how the 3 phase power is being delivered to your place, i.e is it by a Delta or "Y" transformer connections.
The other possibility is if you have 240V 3 phase available.
Single elements are certainly available for your use in the system. Check out this sites lists of high quality elements:
http://bostonheatingsupply.com/rheemelectricelements.aspx
I'll help you in any way that I can. I believe this to be a fun journey for me and it also keeps this old timer from becoming an alsheimer.
this is insane!!!!
(in a good way)
I am still in the thought process of how that would work.You won't be able to clean your boil pot with you I'M chiller design,
Yes, stir motors already figured in on these.15.5gal Herms 50' 7/8 Copper or Stainle$$ coil will work, 2500w depends on volts I would use a stir motor on the HLTand HERMS,
YES, already have large supply.use 1 1/2 tri clover fitting everywhere
Several option for hooking up, went over it with my electrician. Easier to make the runs because less copper and conduit. And I have a panel close by the Brew Room that has extra room.To my under standing 3ph Elec is good for motors ie-3 phases, but on heaters a 3 ph system uses 3 elements 1 for each phase so only voltage is the advantage.
Good info, thanksOur 500gal. HLT is 240v 3PH and has 3 elements totaling 15KW
There are 4 5500w 220v elements in our 5bbl boil pot, 22KW using 94 amps
Yes agreed. Any suggestions on the Plate chiller.Spend money on Fermentors and a real Plate chiller and Glycol sys. and more
I got fever, and the only cure is some pictures of your equipment!
I'm looking to you (among others) when it comes to opening my commercial brewery. Just sayin...
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