50 foot 1/2 inch SS coil
- Thread starter Gear101
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
MaxOut
Well-Known Member
Texan
Well-Known Member
Had not thought to charge people to coil thier tubing but it sure would be nice to recoup some cash for the tooling. Send me a PM and we can hash out the details. I will try to find a picture to post showing you the coil in the sanke.
Stainless is painless
MaxOut
Well-Known Member
Texan
Well-Known Member
Attached is a picture of my first coil. The sanke top was cut out @ 12". You can see the top portion of the coil which gives an idea of how large a diameter I Started with. The picture is 1/2" od tubing very thin wall.
I am only using my coil to recirculate and maintain heat only, I do not use it to cool. If I did I would have went with 1/2", but to maintain mash temps 3/8" ss is more than sufficient. I have a valve on the outlet of the pump to restrict flow and I also run a inline 2.5gpm flow re-stricter with quick connects during mash recirc. http://aqua-matics.com/Products.asp...scwUdUFc7RkxPVyBDT05UUk9MIFZBTFZFUztHQjIuNTs=
FYI, that guy on ebay can do custom coils. If you look at his other listings, you'll see a 5/16" jockey box coil for $80, so a 1/2" coil will probably be just a few bucks more. I sent him an inquiry through ebay. I'll report back.
Texan, if you're up for it, I'm interested in getting a coil done from you as well.
Texan
Well-Known Member
The Chugger has 1/2" discharge and as you explained in the above post is why I prefered to make the coil out of 1/2" to get as close as I could to the pump specs to not affect the pump curve.
I would rather control the output of the pump to either get full flow from the pump when needed (which makes the pump the restraint in the system) or restrict flow to sparge than have my piping size limit my flow.
If you are using the coil to cool as well, then for sure I'd go with 1/2". In my set-up I'm only using it to maintain heat, this is why I went with 3/8". I figured why go with 1/2" at a greater cost when all I'm going to do is restrict the flow anyway. All my other plumbing is 1/2"ID so I am not limited in any other aspect.
Texan
Well-Known Member
I am intrested the more I think about it. The question I don't know the answer to is how much would a homebrewer be willing to spend to have their SS tubing coiled to 10" to 12" coil? Let me know.
If you had the coil, you would have to set it up similar to how MAXOUT picured earlier in the thread. Using 90 degree compresion fittings, I guess a flare might work as well but have never tried it.
Just getting my investment in the tooling back would make my day!
Texan
Well-Known Member
You are correct Zues, I am using it to cool as well.
akthor
Well-Known Member
The way I would look at the cost (upcharge) would be to use the cost of raw product and then shop for the finish product and average out the cost of what other people are selling it for. As you know though, bending 1/2 inch is a lot harder than 3/8 which I personally learning verry fast. The maybe take into concideration the time you have in making the coil, etc etc
How long did it take you, when you had all the tools and materal to make a 50 Wort Chiller?
MaxOut
Well-Known Member
Texan said:
It's hard to tell in the pictures but I used a tubing bender I linked earlier to make slight bends in the tubing right before entering the 90* fittings. If you hold a 90* fitting to the inside of the keggle wall you will see what I'm saying these bends centered the coil in the keggle.
akthor
Well-Known Member
Second PM sent 
Texan
Well-Known Member
Yep, I had the same result Max, Once the tubing was coiled, I used my tubing cutter to cut the coil in the correct spots then I had to slightly bend the tubing back to make the compresion fitting fit properly.
Texan
Well-Known Member
Due to a question I am posing the response here for clarification about how my coil is attached in the Sanke.
You can attach them to the side wall either the way maxout did in his picture how I did in the picture below. I had planned originally to do something different but it worked out fine. ( that is why it was not centered as well as I would like) If I were to do over I would have made a little larger coil and connected it the way maxout did to save a couple compression fittings.
You can attach them to the side wall either the way maxout did in his picture how I did in the picture below. I had planned originally to do something different but it worked out fine. ( that is why it was not centered as well as I would like) If I were to do over I would have made a little larger coil and connected it the way maxout did to save a couple compression fittings.
Care to share any more information about your tooling? Name, source, etc?
akthor
Well-Known Member
Yes i would like mine coiled like that but the actual tubing at the top and bottom to go straight across into the kegwall into a straight compression fitting as opposed the 90 degree fitting and piece of tubing you used.
FYI anyone who needs SS 1/2" compression fittings I bought a lot of 5 I only need two so I would sell the other 3 for $10 ea. Plus shipping (which can't be much)
PM me if interested in a few days I will put them in the classified but for now I will give you guys first crack at them.
FYI anyone who needs SS 1/2" compression fittings I bought a lot of 5 I only need two so I would sell the other 3 for $10 ea. Plus shipping (which can't be much)
PM me if interested in a few days I will put them in the classified but for now I will give you guys first crack at them.
Ok just how hard is it to coil 50' of 1/2" SS? I have seen pictures of people doing it by holding the coil in place with zip ties and just tightening the coil the tubing comes in with feet and hands (no mandrel to wrap around). Would you expect to encounter kinking with this method?
Also regarding the coil springing out after your done wrapping, couldn't you just use the zip tie method, then once it is in the HLT cut off the zip ties and allow the coil to spring out and rest against the kettle wall?
Also regarding the coil springing out after your done wrapping, couldn't you just use the zip tie method, then once it is in the HLT cut off the zip ties and allow the coil to spring out and rest against the kettle wall?
To coil tubing you really need a tubing roller. They can be expensive but you can build one yourself. Here is one that a guy made on an offroad 4x4 forum.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=788408
A little over kill for what is needed here but it gives you an idea of how they work.
MillWerks over at the EB forum made a simpler and cheaper one to coil his HERMS tube. It looks like it works nicely.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=283218&highlight=#283218
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=788408
A little over kill for what is needed here but it gives you an idea of how they work.
MillWerks over at the EB forum made a simpler and cheaper one to coil his HERMS tube. It looks like it works nicely.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=283218&highlight=#283218
Texan
Well-Known Member
My experience with coiling SS tubing is that you are tryin to change the "memory" of the metal. You are taking 50" of ss , which is coiled when you get it, and coiling in into a small diameter. The smaller the diameter the harder it is to coil without kinks. Add to this the wall thickness of the tubing. The thinner the tubing the chances of failure go up drasticly.
In essence you are making a new metal spring. To achieve this you need 3 points of contact as you roll the tubing to give it a new "memory". Also remember, as you decreas the coil diameter, you are increasing the height of the coil. (that 50' has to go somewhere)
Is the thinner tubing cheaper and does the thinner tubing bend easier? Yes but the risk of kinks go way up. I can coil the thin wall tubing with my set up. Bending it results in the images below. You can achieve about 30 degree angle but anythng greater than that will kink with my experience.
The thicker tubing cost more and you can use benders on it to get 90 degree angle but it is also harder to bend by hand or by the zip tie method.
Some examples of of trying to bend 90 degrees using thin wall 1/2" tubing. **edit** these bends were attempted with a Very expensive Swagelock 1/2" bending tool on loan from a fabricater friend of mine. It is how I learned the hard way about wall thickness on tubing. **
Texan
Well-Known Member
Using a pump, valve it to recirculate to you boil kettle to you reach you desired temp while adding ice as needed.
kal
Well-Known Member
I did mine by hand.
The trick is to go very carefully - very slowly! Use tie-wraps to keep the coil in position. I wasn't trying to get it to stay in the proper shape by itself. I was only coaxing it enough (slowly) by hand and foot and then using tie-wraps every few feet or so to hold it together. The tie-wraps were doing a lot of the work. Had it cut the tie wraps the whole thing would have sprung open to 2-3 times the size.
You're not 'Bending' the coil. You're 'repositioning' the tubing into a different sized radius and then holding it in place with the tie wraps. Don't try and bend it.
Hold it a few feet out from the point that you're attaching with tie wraps as you work around:
So in the picture above, I would pull the coil lose end to the right until the left side of the lose end lines up with the left side and then attach a tie-wrap at that point. I would then turn the coil 45 degree and continue.
Kal
The trick is to go very carefully - very slowly! Use tie-wraps to keep the coil in position. I wasn't trying to get it to stay in the proper shape by itself. I was only coaxing it enough (slowly) by hand and foot and then using tie-wraps every few feet or so to hold it together. The tie-wraps were doing a lot of the work. Had it cut the tie wraps the whole thing would have sprung open to 2-3 times the size.
You're not 'Bending' the coil. You're 'repositioning' the tubing into a different sized radius and then holding it in place with the tie wraps. Don't try and bend it.
Hold it a few feet out from the point that you're attaching with tie wraps as you work around:
So in the picture above, I would pull the coil lose end to the right until the left side of the lose end lines up with the left side and then attach a tie-wrap at that point. I would then turn the coil 45 degree and continue.
Kal
akthor
Well-Known Member
Honestly for as much of a hassle this appears it can be and given the chance of ruining the tubing the price Texan is asking to bend this for me is very reasonable. I ordered my coil and it is on it's way to him right now. I gotta say I am relieved to not have to try this
This is probably stupid question but im just asking out of curiosity, why not to go with copper coil, looks like its much easier to bend and heat transfer is wayyyyyy better with copper (so im guessing you can use smaler coil) ??
kal
Well-Known Member
Same reason why people go with stainless for other things brewer related: It is a durable, food-grade metal that can withstand caustic chemicals and can be effectively sanitized.
The heat transfer coefficient difference between the two metals in fluid flow like this is not relevant and will not make a difference. It matters in something like a CPU heat sink but not here.
Kal
The heat transfer coefficient difference between the two metals in fluid flow like this is not relevant and will not make a difference. It matters in something like a CPU heat sink but not here.
Kal
Mandrel benders can't really even handle .028 wall without buckling. The thinnest I've worked successfully is .035.
barhoc11
Well-Known Member
Dumb question without reading through the entire thread... why are you bothering with SS when you can get copper cheaper and not have to worry about all these issues?
it was answered 2 posts up from yours.
MaxOut
Well-Known Member
Frogger42 said:
This is how I cool my wort because I all ready had an ice machine and I cool to 50* (lager) in 12 min. If I had to buy ice I would use a plate chiller.
Even with a plate chiller for the first chill step, pushing through the herms with a small amount if ice can be a big difference. My tap water in summer is 80f.
akthor
Well-Known Member
And stainless for purely sanitary reasons. Used to be copper was A LOT cheaper than SS but breweries and other food related businesses still used SS. Surely they did not care about cool blingy looks.
Hell copper house plumbing can get all sorts of nasty crap happening inside the pipes and they are just transporting water. Do a google search and check out the images. Its gross. Causes:
Low pH (acid water) typically found on private well water, but is also present in some small municipal water systems.*
Other water chemistry causes, such as high levels of dissolved oxygen, high levels of salts dissolved in the water, and/ or corrosion-causing bacteria such as sulfate or iron bacteria.
Electrochemical causes, such as improper grounding of electrical appliances to the copper piping.
High velocity of water, relative to size of piping, causing hydraulic wear on the piping, for instance a recirculating hot water system with a pump driving the water through pipes that are too small in diameter.*
Poor plumbing installation practices, including not cleaning or de-burring the pipe properly and the use of excessive flux in soldereing the pipe fittings.*
Sand, sediment or other grit causing hydraulic wear on the piping.
Lightening strikes to utility poles where the electricity travels to ground wires connecting to piping systems.*
Do it once and do it with SS and be done with it with no worries.
Hell copper house plumbing can get all sorts of nasty crap happening inside the pipes and they are just transporting water. Do a google search and check out the images. Its gross. Causes:
Low pH (acid water) typically found on private well water, but is also present in some small municipal water systems.*
Other water chemistry causes, such as high levels of dissolved oxygen, high levels of salts dissolved in the water, and/ or corrosion-causing bacteria such as sulfate or iron bacteria.
Electrochemical causes, such as improper grounding of electrical appliances to the copper piping.
High velocity of water, relative to size of piping, causing hydraulic wear on the piping, for instance a recirculating hot water system with a pump driving the water through pipes that are too small in diameter.*
Poor plumbing installation practices, including not cleaning or de-burring the pipe properly and the use of excessive flux in soldereing the pipe fittings.*
Sand, sediment or other grit causing hydraulic wear on the piping.
Lightening strikes to utility poles where the electricity travels to ground wires connecting to piping systems.*
Do it once and do it with SS and be done with it with no worries.
Similar threads
