50 amp vs 30 amp control panel

[aaron_m]

I'm about to start working on a control panel so I can go electric and wanted to get some thoughts on doing a 50 amp panel vs a 30 amp panel. Since I recently bought a gas stove, I am no longer using the 50 amp circuit that my old electric stove was on. Since the area where I will be brewing is directly beneath the kitchen, I was able to just remove the outlet and push the wire back through the floor and I now have a 50 amp line where I want to set up my new brewery. The existing wiring is 3 conductor with a ground so all I have to do is wire up a spa panel for my GFCI and then install a new outlet.

I had always planned on building a 30 amp panel since I don't really ever see myself doing back to back batches but now that I have a 50 amp circuit already set up, I'm wondering if I should just build a 50 amp panel.

If I want to go with a 30 amp panel, can I just replace the 50 amp breaker in the main panel with a 30 amp one and still use the 6 gauge wire that is already run?

Will it be much more expensive to build a 50 amp panel? I haven't really looked into it yet but I know that the parts for a 30 amp panel are less expensive and easier to find.

Will I save much money going 30 amp since I don't really need to do back to back batches or should I just do 50 amp now since I can in case I ever decide to upgrade or start doing back to back batches?

 

[Thedutchtouch]

Leave the breaker panel alone. You can run a 30A panel off of a 50A main service, you can't do the opposite. Building a 50A panel is more expensive, but not THAT much, and you'll like the ability to do back to back brews or even just to heat cleaning water while boiling someday. If i had 50A service available i'd go that way.

 

[lschiavo]

I certainly would do a 50A panel. No reason you have to go all out with it to start. Get a big enough enclosure and you can add things as you go.

 

[mj1angier]

Yes, no one ever said "Dang it! I got too much power here!" lol.

For the amount of $, I would do it.

 

[JMathie77]

Do a 50 amp panel, you will find it useful for cleaning and it's nice to preheat strike water in the boil kettle and pump over to the mash tun while heating the HLTs sparge water at the same time!

 

[doug293cz]

Do the 50A panel. You just need to bring power in with 6AWG wire, use a main contactor rated at least 50A, and then create some branches inside the panel with 30A fuses or breakers, where you drop the wiring to 30A using 10AWG wire. None of your elements needs more than a 30A circuit.

Brew on

 

[BrunDog]

I actually think the 50A panel is cheaper. The 30A requires a switching circuit of some sort to ensure only one element is on at a time. The 50A needs no intermediate circuit. That said, you will need some beefier components and wires in the front end, so maybe my logic doesn't apply.

 

[augiedoggy]

if you already have the 50a outlet at your brewing area a 50a panel is the way to go, same components besides a heavier power cable from the outlet to the panel relay which also needs to be 50a... after that theres no additional cost.. slightly less even at that point as brundog mentioned.

 

[LarMoeCur]

The cost between a 50a and 30a panel is just a few dollars. The largest cost is the 50a electrical supply piece which you already have in place. Running two elements has made my brew days a lot shorter. I mostly do 10 gallon batches but sometimes 15 gallons. Heating up 20 gallons with one element takes a lot of time, but two 10 gallon kettles will quickly reach strike temps. If your are running a HERMS, the other plus is you don't have to quickly lower your HLT after you dough in. Heat strike water to 167 in boil kettle and set the HLT to 152 dough in and turn on the pump.

 

[augiedoggy]

For some the cost is a lot higher Its not always this case.
Most of the cost is in the 6/3 wire and when you need 75 ft of is such as I would have plus my 100a main service already had a lot of circuits running off it... So for me the extra cost would have been hundreds..

 

[Wogman75]

I did this exact same thing. I brew right below where I pushed the wires down from the stove. Don't replace the breaker in the panel, the breaker is used to protect the wires based on size and amps so they can handle 50 amps. Get a 30a spa panel with GFI as I did if you only need 30A which will protect you from leakage and limit your amps. I also have breakers inside my control panel limiting the 110v circuit and 240v circuit, probably overkill but you can never be too safe. You can see it in this link I posted today https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/testing-of-my-240v-30a-biab-ebrew-setup.642685/

 

[mabrungard]

Go for 50. I did that under the assumption that I'd need to run my HLT and RIMS at the same time. Each draw almost 25a. They aren't really on at the same time and short over-current events are OK.

 

[Dustin_J]

Another +1 for the 50A. I just went through a 50A build and, comparing components, it really wasn't an appreciable cost difference for the flexibility it provides.

 

[aeviaanah]

Go for 50. I did that under the assumption that I'd need to run my HLT and RIMS at the same time. Each draw almost 25a. They aren't really on at the same time and short over-current events are OK.

Martin, do you have a reference to your system design?

 

[mabrungard]

Reference? No, I came up with the design. But its not like I didn't rely heavily on the concepts of other system designs. I appreciated the Electric Brewery website, but found some concepts were unnecessary when you have a 50a service. Mainly the need to switch the power to each service circuit. Since 50a gives a typical 5500w heater element plenty of excess ampacity, there is no need to have that manual switching. I also didn't see the need to employ locking plugs and my system uses 3 differing dryer/oven plugs and sockets. There is plenty of tension in the sockets to assure that they won't come apart while in use. I also don't feel that an amp meter is necessary either.

 

[D-west]

The cost between a 50a and 30a panel is just a few dollars. The largest cost is the 50a electrical supply piece which you already have in place. Running two elements has made my brew days a lot shorter. I mostly do 10 gallon batches but sometimes 15 gallons. Heating up 20 gallons with one element takes a lot of time, but two 10 gallon kettles will quickly reach strike temps. If your are running a HERMS, the other plus is you don't have to quickly lower your HLT after you dough in. Heat strike water to 167 in boil kettle and set the HLT to 152 dough in and turn on the pump.

Famous last words... Its just a few more dollars...

I am just finishing up my 50 amp panel, I started with plans for a 30 but I have a 60amp gfci breaker and plug so said the same thing. Its just a few extra dollars... over $175 later.... Not quite. The 50 amp locking inlet on the panel was $75, compared to the $35 30amp, my 15' cord was about $30 more, not to mention the fact that it opens up options to spend more adding more elements and probes...

My advice after building this over the last month, plan out your build for what you want it to do, and do not eliminate anything from the standard builds you see online because you will likely want to add it later and its a pain later.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Famous last words... Its just a few more dollars...

I am just finishing up my 50 amp panel, I started with plans for a 30 but I have a 60amp gfci breaker and plug so said the same thing. Its just a few extra dollars... over $175 later.... Not quite. The 50 amp locking inlet on the panel was $75, compared to the $35 30amp, my 15' cord was about $30 more, not to mention the fact that it opens up options to spend more adding more elements and probes...

My advice after building this over the last month, plan out your build for what you want it to do, and do not eliminate anything from the standard builds you see online because you will likely want to add it later and its a pain later.

I can understand that electric breweries are not cheap. When you look at the total cost 200 dollars is really just a few dollars. I myself did not see a 200 dollar increase bumping up to 50a. It was less than 100 dollars. The largest cost was the 10 foot 6 gauge stove cable. Which was only 15 dollars more than an 8 gauge one.

 

[D-west]

I can understand that electric breweries are not cheap. When you look at the total cost 200 dollars is really just a few dollars. I myself did not see a 200 dollar increase bumping up to 50a. It was less than 100 dollars. The largest cost was the 10 foot 6 gauge stove cable. Which was only 15 dollars more than an 8 gauge one.

In my world, 200 dollars is not a few. lol

Of course it will be different for everyone, I went with high grade components and since I bumped up to 50 amp went with 3 elements, 2@240 and 1@120 for my rims instead of having a separate controller.

 

[augiedoggy]

I can understand that electric breweries are not cheap. When you look at the total cost 200 dollars is really just a few dollars. I myself did not see a 200 dollar increase bumping up to 50a. It was less than 100 dollars. The largest cost was the 10 foot 6 gauge stove cable. Which was only 15 dollars more than an 8 gauge one.

electric brewing doesn't have to be so expensive either..
Either one of my 30a panels was under $300 to build..
I brew 10 gallons at a time and my 1800w 7 amp 240v rims has to fire 20% per minute tops to maintain temps in an uninsulated mash tun so there's more than one way to look at it, 50a is not really needed for anything but back to back brewing if things are designed efficiently.
And 10awg power cable is required for 30a not 8... 6 is required for 50a there's is a helfty price difference for many who often don't have a 50a outlet nearby. A 10ft 10/4 Soow power cable is $20 shipped... 10ft of 6/4 SOOW power cable is $38...

People often don't realize a 120v element draws twice the amps than a 240v element of the same power wattage... A 5500w element draws 23 amps max. 4500 draws 18.. my solution was to use a 4500w element in my hlt so I could run a RIMs and pump at the same time without any limitations...

 

[LarMoeCur]

electric brewing doesn't have to be so expensive either..
Either one of my 30a panels was under $300 to build..
I brew 10 gallons at a time and my 1800w 7 amp 240v rims has to fire 20% per minute tops to maintain temps in an uninsulated mash tun so there's more than one way to look at it, 50a is not really needed for anything but back to back brewing if things are designed efficiently.

People often don't realize a 120v element draws twice the amps than a 240v element of the same power wattage... A 5500w element draws 23 amps max.

They also help speed up brewing large batches. Heating 30 gallons of water with one 5500 watt element can quite a bit of time. But heating 30 gallons with two 5500 watt elements takes half the time.

 

[augiedoggy]

They also help speed up brewing large batches. Heating 30 gallons of water with one 5500 watt element can quite a bit of time. But heating 30 gallons with two 5500 watt elements takes half the time.

I'm talking about a homebrewry here... Most home brewer don't brew 30gallons a pop unless there selling it. Most home brewer here still brew 5 gallons or 10 gallons tops..

 

[LarMoeCur]

I don't either. 15 gallons is as big as i go but with a herms system. I need about 30 gallons of water. 15 in the mash and another 12 or so in the HLT.

 

[augiedoggy]

I don't either. 15 gallons is as big as i go but with a herms system. I need about 30 gallons of water. 15 in the mash and another 12 or so in the HLT.

Gotcha, That seems like a lot of water needed every brew session plus bigger kettles needed limiting ones ability to brew 5 gallons... This is a non issue if the op is looking at a rims. the only limitation is a rims/hlt combo that will be able to be fired at the same time to heat sparge which reduces heating times in the BK.

In any case I am in agreeance with you tin this case that if the power is already there - use it.

 

[D-west]

My favorite part, is where I do not die when I brew in my garage with the door closed.

 

[augiedoggy]

My favorite part, is where I do not die when I brew in my garage with the door closed.

Garage? heck I brew in a spare bedroom... no need to be cold or worry about a mess with electric.