5 pound CO2 tank

[redrocker652002]

I have been wondering lately about the CO2 tank I am using. I put it in the kegerator as I have room to do so. It seems it runs to red very quickly, but when I keep it out while brewing my next batch to keg it seems to change the reading. I know the warm air causes the gas to expand and that will put more pressure in the tank, and that will make the reading more accurate. So, if this were your kegerator, it is a modified mini fridge so no openings for the gas line to go, would you figure out a way to store the tank outside the fridge? I am also toying with getting a bigger tank, maybe a 20 gallon, to offset and keep me from having to exchange tanks as often. Or even just having an extra tank at the ready, but the exchange place I use is literally 5 mins from my house.

On the same line of thought, how many kegs to you all get out of a 5 pound tank set at about 10 to 15 psi for most of the beers I have made so far?

As always, any input is welcome and thank you in advance for that.

Rock On!!!!!!!

 

[DuncB]

Useful information here
https://www.adamsgas.co.uk/2021/12/06/our-guide-to-beer-and-cellar-gas-efficiency-for-pubs/
Should help you work out how long your tank should last. Doesn't account for force carbing.

Further Info here

https://www.homebrewfinds.com/kegging-co2-use-estimations-and-calculations/
More than this and you are on a leak hunt.

 

[Bobby_M]

Even though the tank pressure is higher at room temp, it doesn't give you more usable gas. If you think you're running through it quickly, it's best to start with a leak down test without connecting to the kegs. CO2 Leak Detection

After that, soapy water on the keg tops to look for slow lid/post leaks.

 

[sibelman]

A second 5 gal tank works well for me. Inside vs outside will not affect the duration of a refill, but leaks will . I think I get about 7-8 kegs per refill. But some of that is used for transfers and purging.

 

[redrocker652002]

Even though the tank pressure is higher at room temp, it doesn't give you more usable gas. If you think you're running through it quickly, it's best to start with a leak down test without connecting to the kegs. CO2 Leak Detection

After that, soapy water on the keg tops to look for slow lid/post leaks.

I agree with the check for leaks. I did that the last time I kegged and just the other day just for the heck of it. All posts and lids were sealed up nicely using the soapy water test. I did not check the connections at the regulator and such, that will be forthcoming for sure.

 

[redrocker652002]

A second 5 gal tank works well for me. Inside vs outside will not affect the duration of a refill, but leaks will . I think I get about 7-8 kegs per refill. But some of that is used for transfers and purging.

Good to know about the number of kegs you get. I am going to start writing it down. I might check Craigslist to see if anybody is selling a used tank for cheap and pick one up. Can't hurt, right? LOL.

 

[redrocker652002]

Useful information here
https://www.adamsgas.co.uk/2021/12/06/our-guide-to-beer-and-cellar-gas-efficiency-for-pubs/
Should help you work out how long your tank should last. Doesn't account for force carbing.

Further Info here

https://www.homebrewfinds.com/kegging-co2-use-estimations-and-calculations/
More than this and you are on a leak hunt.

Awesome. Thanks for the info, I will peruse and see what I find. I am going to do a really good check of the connections this weekend just to make sure I am good and start tallying how many kegs I get for each fill up.

 

[RichB1]

I keep my gas manifold switches and tank off. Once every two weeks I 1) flush out my lines, 2) turn on manifold switches and gas, 3) turn them off, and 4) then quickly check pressure of each. From time to time if I am hitting 1 keg hard (I have 5 kegs and 5 taps in my beer keezer) I will turn on manifold switch and gas for that 1 keg. Sounds like a lot of work but really talking less than a minute. My pressure check will detect leaks. If there is a leak then pressure will certainly be near zero within two weeks (or when no beer comes out of tap). Mitigates risk of co2 tank getting completely drained. When I am away for extended periods I disconnect both gas and liquid lines for each keg (again, less than 1 minute).

 

[Broken Crow]

If memory serves at all, I recall you asking about kegerators in the last few months or so, so I'm assuming it's a fairly recent acquisition... At that time, I'd already had a 10lb tank on my 4-tap unit for some time, both my girlfriend and I use it daily and I've still got the same tank on it. I also seem to recall you're the only one drinking from it (but I do have memory issues ).
While you're probably using it for utility like purging and such as well, I've just got a feeling you may have a slow leak somewhere. Personal suggestion; Don't just buy another tank, but get another regulator and keep a CO2 kit for utility purposes so you can just leave the one on the kegerator for serving only. While it's great to be close to the refill place, it doesn't help a lot if you've run out on a Friday night before a holiday weekend..happened to me...twice! I've got a tank on my kegerator, and another in a milk-crate with a couple spare lines that I use for all other tasks, and in a pinch I can swap it out to the kegerator. When cash allows, I'll be getting a third just to have on hand for when I need it.

 

[sibelman]

a CO2 kit for utility purposes

Yes!

 

[IslandLizard]

It seems it runs to red very quickly,

That may hint to a leak, yes.

The only way to know is weigh your tank, daily.

You can leave the regulator and hoses on, just keep attachments the same. Keep at least somewhat track of usage, like "6 pints," or "3 glasses," etc. If there's significant weight drop each day without usage that account for it, there's a leak.

 

[Buelos75]

Good to know about the number of kegs you get. I am going to start writing it down. I might check Craigslist to see if anybody is selling a used tank for cheap and pick one up. Can't hurt, right? LOL.

do not buy used tanks from the internet. Tanks have an experation date stamped in the tank itself. Normally, all tanks out of certification have to be static tested to allow the "filler" to certify the tank and allow it to be used. Check with a welding supply business locally about purchasing or refilling a tank.... Do not purchase a tank, because if you do and take it to be refilled, supplier will just want to swap out the tank, whick is benifical to the purchaser. Also on this point a welding suppier will certify the CO2 you are getting in the filler tank. There are several types of CO2 gasses (classified as CO2 and FILTERED gas). You want to purchase "CO2 Beer gas".... This is what is sold to local bars and restranants. It is free of contaminats dispensed into the product. Creds... I worked in the Gas Industry for 20 years and find this passionate about what we actually get when we blindly purchase a refil from a beer store. Check your sources, quality, and amount in your tanks. Drink UP.

 

[redrocker652002]

do not buy used tanks from the internet. Tanks have an experation date stamped in the tank itself. Normally, all tanks out of certification have to be static tested to allow the "filler" to certify the tank and allow it to be used. Check with a welding supply business locally about purchasing or refilling a tank.... Do not purchase a tank, because if you do and take it to be refilled, supplier will just want to swap out the tank, whick is benifical to the purchaser. Also on this point a welding suppier will certify the CO2 you are getting in the filler tank. There are several types of CO2 gasses (classified as CO2 and FILTERED gas). You want to purchase "CO2 Beer gas".... This is what is sold to local bars and restranants. It is free of contaminats dispensed into the product. Creds... I worked in the Gas Industry for 20 years and find this passionate about what we actually get when we blindly purchase a refil from a beer store. Check your sources, quality, and amount in your tanks. Drink UP.

My last tank was a swap out with my old one from Airgas that has a local store near me. I think I bought the tank itself from Morebeer. I probably shouldn't have, but I was stupid and didn't know any better. On my next trip to Airgas I will ask if they provide just a tank swap and best way to get an extra tank. I was also thinking of buying a bigger tank and using it to refill my smaller one. I saw that done on the internet and It did not look too hard, but I need to do a bit more research on that. Thanks fo the info. Rock On!!!!!!

 

[mac_1103]

Tanks have an experation date stamped in the tank itself. Normally, all tanks out of certification have to be static tested to allow the "filler" to certify the tank and allow it to be used.

My local gas supplier re-certifies tanks for $37.

Do not purchase a tank, because if you do and take it to be refilled, supplier will just want to swap out the tank

My local gas supplier will fill your tank onsite - $25 for a five pounder.

 

[sibelman]

Tank swap is the most common scenario in my experience. Airgas is the most expensive source in my area (Portland Oregon metro). Another welding supply company does it for considerably less. Some LHBS shops here will swap empties for full tanks. My favorite LHBS will refill my tank. $22 for 5lbs is the best price I've seen.

 

[balrog]

@redrocker652002 , I had an issue once with my tank. All connected to regulator and line to keg, all tested, everything fine. I put it outside on the porch to make it easier to access than the basement, and overnight temps went to the 30s. The next morning the tank/regulator interface was every so slightly hissing and needed re-tightening, presumably due to cold contraction.

And the fact that my brother in law and i set up the porch scenario in the evening. Beer was involved. Beer and wrenches may not have been the best combination that evening.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

If you can, I would totally go to a 20# tank. It felt like I was swapping/refilling the 5#er every other month. With the 20#er, I only swap every 14-16 months. (I know the math doesn't add up. The 5# just felt like every other month).

Now I have a 20# outside of the kegerator and a 5# for the in-between times that the 20#er runs dry or carbing up a keg for nitro.

Speaking of nitro, you'll only want to get 'beer gas' if you're serving on a nitro faucet. Beer gas is sold to bars and restaurants because of the distances the lines go from the keg to the faucet. If they were to just use CO2, the beer would overcarb. If they were to reduce the pressure to not overcarb, the pour would take forever. There is zero problems getting a "used tank on the internet".

 

[balrog]

There is zero problems getting a "used tank on the internet".

Until you have to pay to recertify an old tank that is.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Until you have to pay to recertify an old tank that is.

Honestly, I just use Airgas for that. They don't charge for hydrostatic tests. Their swaps are a little more, but less than a recert and swap/fill from the welding supply. That may be different for others though for sure.

 

[mac_1103]

Until you have to pay to recertify an old tank that is.

Like I said, $37 where I live. So why wouldn't I buy a used tank if I can get it for $50 less than a new one? The new tank you buy is going to be old eventually.

Why would anybody buy a new one just to exchange it?

 

[Bobby_M]

I charge customers $25 if they bring an out of date tank in. That's exactly what I pay to have the tank hydro'd since I usually do 25-30 tanks at a time. Sweeping generalizations about how the CO2 market does things is not really helpful. Every retailer is different.

 

[Bobby_M]

do not buy used tanks from the internet. Tanks have an experation date stamped in the tank itself.

You could have said " Don't buy used tanks without knowing what the most current hydro stamp is". Sure. You should know what it will cost you in your local market to get that tank filled. If he was my customer it would be $25 for the hydro and $23 for the fill. Using that information, if you can score an out of date tank for $25 that's a win.

 

[mac_1103]

if you can score an out of date tank for $25 that's a win.

I can score two for $30 right now. Could probably get that down to $25. Unfortunately I'm 5 1/2 hours from your store.

 

[MaxStout]

You could have said " Don't buy used tanks without knowing what the most current hydro stamp is". Sure. You should know what it will cost you in your local market to get that tank filled. If he was my customer it would be $25 for the hydro and $23 for the fill. Using that information, if you can score an out of date tank for $25 that's a win.

I'm betting @Buelos75 is a bot. Its overly broad post didn't come anywhere close to addressing @redrocker652002's issue.

 

[mac_1103]

I'm betting @Buelos75 is a bot.

They were employing bots in the gas industry 20 years ago? Things are much worse than I thought.

 

[redrocker652002]

@redrocker652002 , I had an issue once with my tank. All connected to regulator and line to keg, all tested, everything fine. I put it outside on the porch to make it easier to access than the basement, and overnight temps went to the 30s. The next morning the tank/regulator interface was every so slightly hissing and needed re-tightening, presumably due to cold contraction.

And the fact that my brother in law and i set up the porch scenario in the evening. Beer was involved. Beer and wrenches may not have been the best combination that evening.

LOL. If I pick up a wrench in one hand, there is a beer in the other. LOL. Kidding, but I hear ya.

 

[redrocker652002]

OK, so here is my thought. I am going to check for leaks sometime this weekend if I can. I am going to look around craigslist to see if I can find anything good used. I will talk to my local Airgas place and see what is up. I did not tell him it was for beer last time, so not sure what I got, but it was CO2, LOL. Each time I post something I become much more educated on the ways of the beer. I thank all of you for that. So, asking for Beer gas is the way to go? Rock on!!!!!!

 

[IslandLizard]

So, asking for Beer gas is the way to go?

No!
"Beer gas" is a mixture of Nitrogen and CO2. You don't want that, at least not now.

Just ask for beverage grade CO2.

From what I've heard, (pretty much) all CO2 sold in the US is all the same and already beverage grade. But the tanks it's stored in are cleaned to certain beverage grade standards. Not sure if that's actually true or not.

 

[IslandLizard]

Did you buy your regulator brand new or used?

Check the seal on the high pressure connection stem, where it meets the tank nozzle.
It varies by the type and age of regulator, older ones often need a (single use) fiber crush washer or a more durable, plastic one between that and the tank nozzle. Many newer ones have an integrated rubber o-ring around a hex bolt inside the stem. They can all last longer, but can also get damaged, causing small persistent leaks (at 1000 psi), that are inaudible.

If you're not sure, take the regulator with you when exchanging or filling the tank.

 

[redrocker652002]

Did you buy your regulator brand new or used?

Check the seal on the high pressure connection stem, where it meets the tank pozzle.
It varies by the type and age of regulator, older ones often need a (single use) fiber crush washer or a more durable, plastic one between that and the tank nozzle. Many newer ones have an integrated rubber o-ring around a hex bolt inside the stem. They can all last longer, but can also get damaged, causing small persistent leaks (at 1000 psi), that are inaudible.

If you're not sure, take the regulator with you when exchanging or filling the tank.

The regulator was part of the kegerator I purchased along with the faucet, a makeshift tower from what looks to be 2 inch steel pipe and all the lines. I will check all for leaks and go from there. When I move the tank to a warmer area it seems to move the gauge up to halfway or so, that makes me think it is just reading low being in the cold of the kegerator. But I am going to check it all just for the heck of it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[day_trippr]

Temperature does have a major effect on CO2 cylinder pressure. You can predict the pressure from this chart...

Cheers!

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Are we sure that's right-side up? If so, which little squiggly line is me? I only speak conversational nerd - not quite fluent yet.

 

[day_trippr]

For example, the 70°F curve (near 'nuff "room temperature") says a high pressure gauge would read around 850 psi, while the 40°F curve (roughly "kegerator temperature") would put the gauge closer to 550...

Cheers!

 

[FloppyKnockers]

For example, the 70°F curve (near 'nuff "room temperature") says a high pressure gauge would read around 850 psi, while the 40°F curve (roughly "kegerator temperature") would put the gauge closer to 550...

Cheers!

Ohhhhhh. I get it now. Thanks for the easy explanation.

 

[day_trippr]

Note, all that presumes there is still liquid phase CO2 within the cylinder. The roll-off seen at the left end of the plot gets into what happens when the liquid eventually dwindles to where it has all evaporated into gas...

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

And now memorize the graph.

It will be on the final.

 

[Buelos75]

I'm betting @Buelos75 is a bot. Its overly broad post didn't come anywhere close to addressing @redrocker652002's issue.

No, not a bot just 20 years in the gas business with the 3rd largest gas manufacturing business in the world. i like to think i know my way around this world and suggest those thinking of purchasing (used or new) tanks do the research and seek the best product for your brew.